Racial issues in music

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x-post, i agree, both generalisations are redundant and prone to generalisations. is there really that much in common between say, prince and mick collins? they both appeal to majority white audiences but play to probably vastly different sectors of the white market.

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 18:53 (nineteen years ago) link

Prince and Mick Collins both incorporate guitar rock, though. So does Darius Rucker! (Which is not to imply that white people only like music with guitars, of course. I mean, Lionel Richie had a country hit in the early '80s. Though I guess he had previously been in a guitar band, so never mind.)

― chuck, Wednesday, 25 August 2004 19:01 (nineteen years ago) link

but princes guitar rock and mick's guitar rock are at almost polar sides of the guitar rock spectrum.

pop star jamelia in the UK doesnt do guitar rock or guitar pop even but white people sure love her music!

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 19:04 (nineteen years ago) link

And MOP (who, wait a minute, are totally aiming at white metal audiences these days, aren't they??) incorporate guitar rock, too. (Anyway, LOTS of white fans buy r&b and rap records these days -- way more than black fans buying country or even rock records, I bet -- so this guitar stuff is kind of stupid.)

― chuck, Wednesday, 25 August 2004 19:09 (nineteen years ago) link

MOP have done one album with guitars, but thats about it.

this post is turning into something like a 'i bet you this race buys that race's music more than the other race' contest......

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 19:11 (nineteen years ago) link

charles shaar murray would probably argue the diff. between pop and rock audiences are an important factor in this argument.

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 19:14 (nineteen years ago) link

Pop audiences seem pretty open in both directions (and people like Paula Abdul and Mariah and Christina Aguillera and Pink and Gwen Stefani are just about raceless, when you get down to it), so that's a fair point. But rock kids all like hip-hop these days, right?

― chuck, Wednesday, 25 August 2004 19:24 (nineteen years ago) link

You'd be surprised, Chuck.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 20:09 (nineteen years ago) link

"Iiiiii HATE YOU
And Iiiiiii BE-RATE YOU!"

Star Trek IV?

― Angus Von Santana, Wednesday, 25 August 2004 20:38 (nineteen years ago) link

yeah i cant see all that many rock kids liking rap.

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 20:48 (nineteen years ago) link

um...you're joking, right?? (or have you just not talked to any white kids from the suburbs in the past decade and a half??)

― chuck, Wednesday, 25 August 2004 20:54 (nineteen years ago) link

this is retarded. let's all agree that people of ALL races prefer their music by Ronnie James Dio and be done with this thread.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 20:58 (nineteen years ago) link

no, in london/england at least, tons of indie kids look at rap with scorn.

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:07 (nineteen years ago) link

Most nu-metal kids like at least a few rap acts, though. Or I assume so from the fact that Eminem and 50 Cent play regularly on the Kerrang channel.

― Wooden (Wooden), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:09 (nineteen years ago) link

"indie kids" =/ "rock kids"

― chuck, Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:18 (nineteen years ago) link

and "england" =/ "the united states"

― chuck, Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:19 (nineteen years ago) link

That first post would appear to encapsulate Chuck's central contribution to ILX.

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:19 (nineteen years ago) link

(I don't know why that reads so snarky. It's a good point, and a true one, and it was fun seeing it brought down to such a punchy presentation.)

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:20 (nineteen years ago) link

What are y'all talking (posting, whatever) about now?

― Nowell, Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:21 (nineteen years ago) link

i dont know.

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:22 (nineteen years ago) link

About how indie kids aren't the same thing as rock kids! Somewhere around the mid-90s everyone forgot this.

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:22 (nineteen years ago) link

Because the rock kids were either hibernating or listening to popular "alternative" acts that everyone assumed mostly indie kids were listening to.

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:23 (nineteen years ago) link

Ok...does this have anything to do with race?

― Nowell, Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:26 (nineteen years ago) link

but if rock kids arent listening to much hip hop, other than the popular stuff that gets in the top 20, which most people in general will know unless all you do is listen to specialist late night rock shows, i doubt many indie fans are. i grew up with a ton of staunch indie fuxors and they generally treated hip hop like it as the 'special school' of genres.

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:27 (nineteen years ago) link

"Special school"?

― Nowell, Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:28 (nineteen years ago) link

as in 'mentally handicapped'.

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:29 (nineteen years ago) link

no, in london/england at least, tons of indie kids look at rap with scorn.

Ummm...no.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:32 (nineteen years ago) link

Ohhh.
So you're all talking about whether "indie kids" like rap or not.
Well, I imagine that they might like "indie" rap..

― Nowell, Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:33 (nineteen years ago) link

clearly i need to make friends with more indie kids cos theyre so open minded.

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:34 (nineteen years ago) link

Indie kids in the USA listen to plenty of hip-hop these days, too, though, I think. Or at least the ones in Williamsburg all seem to. As do fans of Korn/Slipnot/Linkin Park, not to mention fans of jam bands (for starters). (Or at least the bands themselves seem to *want* their fans to like hip-hop (and yeah, the biggest sellers are the most popular, um, *by definition,* seeing how they sell a lot. Don't know why that's such a tragedy; it's not like there's tons of rap fans out there buying Black Lips and Gore Gore Girls records, either.)

― chuck, Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:36 (nineteen years ago) link

well i expect some crossover from fans of bands like korn, linkin park. thats kinda obvious.

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:39 (nineteen years ago) link

My other brother is a big raphead, and he likes Linkin Park. I hate Linkin Park.

― Nowell, Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:40 (nineteen years ago) link

this thread has gone as far as it can reasonably go i think. of course some indie fans will be into rap, some hip hop heads will be into rock, etc etc. probably the majority in both cases wont be into the 'other' music. whatever!

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:41 (nineteen years ago) link

Not the thread, just this subject of indie kids liking rap.

― Nowell, Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:43 (nineteen years ago) link

I doubt the vast majority of music fans identify themselves with one particular genre though. Most people I've met in my life have pretty eclectic CD (or tape or record) collections -- even casual listeners.

― chuck, Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:44 (nineteen years ago) link

Or their tastes change over time (especially when they're growing up.) So even if they don't have any rap (or punk or teenpop or country or ???) records *now*, maybe they *used* to.

― chuck, Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:46 (nineteen years ago) link

interesting, chuck. i know people that do like several kinds of music, but generally align themselves to one genre as their speciality or favourite of sorts (or just the one genre that most of their CDs fall into).

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:46 (nineteen years ago) link

My sister, for instance, has Gloria Estefan and Garth Brooks and Styx CDs, I think (last time I checked). But I doubt she'd call herself a "Latin pop" fan or a "country" fan or a "top 40 prog" fan. She just likes what she likes. (At her wedding last week, she gave everybody homemade CDs that seemed mainly full of smooth jazz, but I forget the artists' names.)

― chuck, Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:49 (nineteen years ago) link

so really, shes probably a smooth jazz fan for the most part.

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:51 (nineteen years ago) link

Well, I like everything from Nas to PJ Harvey. But, yeah, mainly I'd say I'm into rock music.

― Nowell, Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:52 (nineteen years ago) link

usually everyone has something they like most.

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:53 (nineteen years ago) link

Exactly.
Now talk about something else!

― Nowell, Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:55 (nineteen years ago) link

Music Issues In Race.

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:56 (nineteen years ago) link

Whatever.
Racial issues in music is a serious topic!
Wait..no, it isn't. Not ta me, at least.

― Nowell, Wednesday, 25 August 2004 22:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Well, SOMEtimes it can be serious. But you know what I mean.

― Nowell, Wednesday, 25 August 2004 22:01 (nineteen years ago) link

Racing Issues in Music: Chariots of Fire anyone?

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 22:02 (nineteen years ago) link

NO! I said race, as in the color of your skin and your culture and shit. Stop being dumb!

― Nowell, Wednesday, 25 August 2004 22:06 (nineteen years ago) link

Okay, now no one's sayin' anything.
Why?

― Nowell, Wednesday, 25 August 2004 22:12 (nineteen years ago) link

Fuck it, I'm trying too hard.

― Nowell, Wednesday, 25 August 2004 22:14 (nineteen years ago) link

You're doing super. Keep it up, champ.

― Wooden (Wooden), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 22:22 (nineteen years ago) link

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