Is Rakim possibly the best rapper

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KRS-1 #4 ?????

How is this unbelievable, by the standards he listed?

― djdee2005, Sunday, 28 March 2004 09:03 (twenty years ago) link

I like Jeff Anderson's list. That is a very good list. It's probably pretty close to the truth. Oh well.

― Broheems (diamond), Sunday, 28 March 2004 12:17 (twenty years ago) link

Hmm, Tupac is definitely underrated, but to rate him the best rapper of all time is kinda bold.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Sunday, 28 March 2004 12:38 (twenty years ago) link

I always found it difficult for me personally to say who is the greatest rapper of all time. Every rapper had different styles. They are many underrated rappers like BIG L, Kool G Rap, KRS-ONE, Talib Kweli, Common, Royce da 5'9", and many members of Wu-Tang. Jeff Anderson's was good, but why Royce and Mos ahead of Eminem. If you put Mos in there you have to add Talib. Big L defintely belongs in the top 10 in every list I believe like he said "how come you can listen to my first album you can tell where a lot of niggas got there style from" I think he was referring to Jay-Z, correct me if I'm wrong. 2pac was a great rapper, but I don't remember him as a rapper, but more as a person. What Pac stood for and what he believed in he was an activist and realized rap was away to address the public. Now onto Rakim, he was a different sound to use the metaphors in such complex ways was unheard of. A lot of rappers took Rakims style of rhyming like Nas and AZ (another unknown). Rakim is one of the greatest because I see it as this if you give credit to Nas it first has to go through Rakim, but Rakim taught Nas a lot of about spitting. I think the best has to broken into categories like the best story teller I believe is Biggie because the way he did it. So if you want to say who's the best you have to say it in there category.

― Sdot, Monday, 29 March 2004 00:15 (twenty years ago) link

haha "influence"--greatest-rapper-of-all-time lists are so rockist

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Monday, 29 March 2004 05:55 (twenty years ago) link

If you put Mos in there you have to add Talib.

er, no you don't

― oops (Oops), Monday, 29 March 2004 07:48 (twenty years ago) link

#1 Egyptial Lover
#2 Apache Indian
#3 Black Rob

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 29 March 2004 13:19 (twenty years ago) link

krs isn't #1! oh wait, i'm sorry i lied.

he's #'s 1 2 3 4 and 5.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Monday, 29 March 2004 13:30 (twenty years ago) link

(not really)

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Monday, 29 March 2004 13:31 (twenty years ago) link

Maybe if we had one of those things like Leela from Futurama where we could determine an MC's mad rhyme-busting success rate ("I believe that qualifies as ill")

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Monday, 29 March 2004 14:28 (twenty years ago) link

This thread (esp. Jeff Anderson's list, stodgy almost to the point of self-parody) proves most everything I said on the thread below:

Technique in Rap and Rock

― chuck, Monday, 29 March 2004 14:44 (twenty years ago) link

'stodgy to the point of self parody'??? what the fuck does that mean?
my list goes:
1.2 Pac
2.Mannie Fresh
3.Bun B
4.Jadakiss
5.Eminem
6.Lil Wayne
7.Snoop
8.E40
9.Lil Keke
10.Nas

― jack who, take what, Monday, 29 March 2004 14:56 (twenty years ago) link

"'stodgy to the point of self parody'??? what the fuck does that mean?"

Start with mikestands up rectums. And then work from there.

(You also might wanna check that link.)

― chuck, Monday, 29 March 2004 15:01 (twenty years ago) link

"Hmm, Tupac is definitely underrated"

By who? And COMPARED to who? Jeff Buckley???

― chuck, Monday, 29 March 2004 15:31 (twenty years ago) link

(You also might wanna check that link.)

Dude Mannie Fresh was #2 on his list...

Also I still think you are approaching hip-hop with a different system of values (and I'm not talking about supremacy of technique here) than myself. And I don't think its fair to say that anyone who disagrees with you that L'Trimm is one of the best hip-hop acts of the 80s is a technique-obsessed rockist.

― djdee2005, Monday, 29 March 2004 16:57 (twenty years ago) link

The list I called stodgy didn't have Mannie Fresh on it, DJdee. (I didn't mind that other one; e.g., I DO think Lil Wayne is underrated.)

― chuck, Monday, 29 March 2004 17:18 (twenty years ago) link

I'm down with anybody who can rap about Baudelaire...

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Monday, 29 March 2004 17:33 (twenty years ago) link

You'd like Peter Laughner, then! (And Serge Gainsbourg, maybe.)

― chuck, Monday, 29 March 2004 17:36 (twenty years ago) link

In fact, Chuck, I do! I've taken the guitar player for a ride!

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Monday, 29 March 2004 17:55 (twenty years ago) link

you might really like royce, chuck! maybe you'd like his earlier party-rap even more. The trackmasterz produced "you can't touch" is great on that style. Also everyone else who hears about royce will like him too, so you should run a review, nudgenudge.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Monday, 29 March 2004 18:14 (twenty years ago) link

Royce is too boring for anyone to ever like. I can't see how people could handle mixtapes and shit from the guy. He's like any other painfully generic unlikeable rapper out there (Nature, Skillz, etc).

― Rollie Pemberton (Rollie Pemberton), Monday, 29 March 2004 18:36 (twenty years ago) link

Hahaha Rollie OTM.

― djdee2005, Monday, 29 March 2004 18:44 (twenty years ago) link

haha finally i find a rapper that i think me & the "skillz" set will both like and NO! wtf? i mean he's more melodic than rakim or nas by a longshot, verbally plenty complex, does he just not have enough dumb "i r00l this -><- much" jokes for you?

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Monday, 29 March 2004 19:02 (twenty years ago) link

Is there something secretly poptastic about royce i'm missing that brings the h8?

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Monday, 29 March 2004 19:04 (twenty years ago) link

"melodic" = rockist value when discussing rappers.

― djdee2005, Monday, 29 March 2004 19:06 (twenty years ago) link

Actually I think it's something anti-poptastic. I like him though.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 29 March 2004 19:08 (twenty years ago) link

"melodic" = popist value when discussing rappers.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Monday, 29 March 2004 19:16 (twenty years ago) link

You're imposing a set of values on a genre that doesn't follow that line of thought.

Whats the diff between saying "this rapper isn't melodic enough" and "this beat doesn't use real instruments"?

― djdee2005, Monday, 29 March 2004 19:17 (twenty years ago) link

Okayplayer?

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 29 March 2004 19:20 (twenty years ago) link

Okay I know like one person who will think that was funny. Pls ignore thx k bye.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 29 March 2004 19:20 (twenty years ago) link

I mean I understand the "popist" line of thought but then how do you explain (and perhaps I'm making an assumption here) all the love you guys give Dizzee Rascal (whom I also dig)? I mean, his stuff is pretty anti-pop in its cacophony.

― djdee2005, Monday, 29 March 2004 19:22 (twenty years ago) link

"You're imposing a set of values on a genre that doesn't follow that line of thought."

Which is obviously not as much fun, or as honest, or as interesting, as kissing the genre's butt as if he was the teacher's pet, right?

― chuck, Monday, 29 March 2004 19:29 (twenty years ago) link

An assumption you're making.

If I was "kissing a genre's butt" how could I appreciate Dizzee Rascal?

― djdee2005, Monday, 29 March 2004 19:30 (twenty years ago) link

I mean, you sound like Pete Townshend's dad telling him he's not supposed to do that with a guitar, you know? Since when do genres make the rules for people thinking about them?

― chuck, Monday, 29 March 2004 19:31 (twenty years ago) link

I'm not the one arguing that a rapper is not "melodic" enough.

― djdee2005, Monday, 29 March 2004 19:33 (twenty years ago) link

Saying "Royce is a cool rapper cos he's melodic" is not the same at all as saying "All rap should be melodic", anyway.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Monday, 29 March 2004 19:33 (twenty years ago) link

What I'm getting at is that there is something aurally pleasing about Rakim's monotone, confidence, voice in general.

― djdee2005, Monday, 29 March 2004 19:34 (twenty years ago) link

Saying "Royce is a cool rapper cos he's melodic" is not the same at all as saying "All rap should be melodic", anyway.

I was more perturbed by the positive comparison to Rakim, who is a much more distinctive rapper - I'm saying that how distinctive/charismatic a rapper is doesn't NECCESSARILY have anything to do w/ melodicism. It certainly doesn't in Rakim's case.

― djdee2005, Monday, 29 March 2004 19:38 (twenty years ago) link

But why is the genre's line of thought better than Sterling's line of thought? What if the genre's line of thought is FULL OF SHIT?? (Though for the life of me I don't understand how being "melodic" has nothing to do with hip-hop's line of thought, since hip-hop has had great melodies for, what, a quarter century now, at least?)

― chuck, Monday, 29 March 2004 19:38 (twenty years ago) link

Not only does royce have melodies, he has INTERESTING ones! I mean like ones that are interesting and if played on wonky old keyboards instead of rapped would have ppl comparing him to prefuse or whatever. Which is just to underline my bafflement at how he's "generic". I guess that just means he doesn't rap about spaceships or something (apologies nickalicious).

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Monday, 29 March 2004 19:40 (twenty years ago) link

50 cent has interesting melodies too, though.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Monday, 29 March 2004 19:40 (twenty years ago) link

But less prefuse interesting and more 70s r&b interesting.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Monday, 29 March 2004 19:41 (twenty years ago) link

Dude Sterling why are you apologizing? Am I the nu-ILM-default-sci-fi-hip-hop-lyric guy?

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 29 March 2004 19:45 (twenty years ago) link

I thought when we were talking "melodic" we were talking about his actual rapping....yes?

Of course, Chuck, everyone's opinion is just as valuable as anyone elses. Just like in the article where the elementary school kids reviewed Radiohead tracks, it was cool because it cleverly jabbed at people who think that people need to "know" about something to enjoy it. I don't claim that he has to like Rakim. But I'm arguing that enjoying Rakim is NOT rockist, it is not blind acceptance of some genre's "line of thought," it's that I find Rakim to be a more charismatic and interesting rapper than Royce.

the crack about spaceships = stupid. I listen to Lil Jon and David Banner and T.I. and Rakim and enjoy them all.

― djdee2005, Monday, 29 March 2004 19:47 (twenty years ago) link

spacesHIP-HOP

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 29 March 2004 19:48 (twenty years ago) link

I would say though that I don't think of lyrical creativity so much as using uncommon words/topics as I do creative perspectives & wordplay. I'd rather hear creative rhymes about the familiar than half-assed rhymes about crazy shit.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 29 March 2004 19:50 (twenty years ago) link

When I suggested that valuing melodicism in your rappers was "rockist" i was implying that I feel there is more to value in rapping than its melodicism - Its like when Jack White complained about hip-hop not having certain values that he insisted music he enjoyed should have. hip-hop doesn't require melodicism for me to enjoy it.

― djdee2005, Monday, 29 March 2004 19:51 (twenty years ago) link

And of course, like Jack White, Sterling can disagree with my take on it.

― djdee2005, Monday, 29 March 2004 19:51 (twenty years ago) link

I think a distinction not often enough made wrt hip-hop vocals is that of melodicism vs. expression, cuz sometimes dudes might be more melodic but less expressive (50 Cent fr'instance, nice melodies w/ somewhat deadpan delivery) and others more expressive but less melodic (like Del's tonedeaf conversational style). I think a huge bit of Rakim's appeal is how expressive he is.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 29 March 2004 19:54 (twenty years ago) link

comparing me with jack white = a new low for you rollie. yr just trying to get nate to like me and amy p. to hate me.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Monday, 29 March 2004 20:16 (twenty years ago) link

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Is Rakim possibly the best rapper - ever?