with the analogue synths and the choir sounds... it's like he's singing over a Kosmische album from the late 70s sometimes
― StanM, Saturday, 5 October 2019 21:37 (four years ago) link
the second disc is absolutely better than push the sky away and i say this as a big fan of that album
― ufo, Saturday, 5 October 2019 22:30 (four years ago) link
weirdly what this album reminds me the most of is magical cloudz which i never really expected from a nick cave record
― ufo, Sunday, 6 October 2019 13:43 (four years ago) link
haven't fully digested it but surprised anybody would prefer it to the last two. It's certainly beautiful and but seems to be a bit too soundtracky (and not unlike some of Cave and Ellis's soundtracks) and a bit too lacking in variety and tension? And surprised anybody would say Skeleton Tree is all tension and no release, when the penultimate song Distant Sky is perhaps the most beautiful recording of the last 10 years.
― dan selzer, Sunday, 6 October 2019 18:55 (four years ago) link
for me it's the most interesting thing he's done, or at least the thing i like the most since Abattoir Blues. probably because some of the first disc definitely sounds influenced by mid 90s Current 93.
― Hmmmmm (jamiesummerz), Tuesday, 8 October 2019 15:52 (four years ago) link
the opening of the title track feels very "warszawa" to me
the whole album is continuing to grow on me, i think i was caught off-guard by it opening with "spinning song" which is one of the most minimal and skeleton tree-like tracks, but i even like that a lot now. "ghosteen speaks" is the only one i haven't gotten into yet, it's still quite formless and is mostly synth drones plus backing vocals "wwhoaaaaaaaaa" over and over
― ufo, Wednesday, 9 October 2019 11:04 (four years ago) link
I'm sold on that!
― michaellambert, Wednesday, 9 October 2019 19:45 (four years ago) link
Or like a later Alice Coltrane record, which both he & esp Ellis are noted fans of
― chr1sb3singer, Wednesday, 9 October 2019 20:50 (four years ago) link
Hmm, thinking of this in terms of one of Alice Coltrane's ashram cassettes helps. My first listen found it too tract-like, too dependent on the words to click. But framing it as devotional pondering may help.
― bendy, Thursday, 10 October 2019 15:10 (four years ago) link
https://i.imgur.com/REug3mx.jpg
― now let's play big lunch take little lunch (sic), Thursday, 10 October 2019 21:38 (four years ago) link
Nick what do you think Antifa is fighting for
http://www.theredhandfiles.com/why-do-you-write/
― self-clowning oven (Murgatroid), Tuesday, 15 October 2019 18:18 (four years ago) link
Or against, rather
nick: "self-righteous belief and the suppression of contrary systems of thought" is bad. "lack of humility" is bad. "paternalistic and doctrinal sureness" is bad.
also nick: people who are religious and believe in god are indisputably wrong and should probably be shunned.
― fact checking cuz, Tuesday, 15 October 2019 22:16 (four years ago) link
i couldn't care less if people believe in god but i found his antifa commments quite shocking.
― stirmonster, Tuesday, 15 October 2019 22:50 (four years ago) link
No one even brought up Antifa, he could have left it at his thoughts on woke culture, which I disagree with but whatever, old white dudes gonna old white dude
― self-clowning oven (Murgatroid), Tuesday, 15 October 2019 23:01 (four years ago) link
whatever, old white dudes gonna old white dude
bravo
― Paul Ponzi, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 00:45 (four years ago) link
I was at his Sunday 'Conversations...' show here in SF -- which was quite good -- and he did talk about free speech as such in the context of his version of "Stagger Lee" but didn't go THAT far, let's say. But I did think "Hmm..." when I heard it.
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 02:24 (four years ago) link
Bunch of UK and European dates announced for next year:
https://www.nickcave.com/tour-dates/
― van dyke parks generator (anagram), Friday, 18 October 2019 09:34 (four years ago) link
Lotte Lehmann, the German soprano, had this line about how 'only that is convincing which is truly felt' and as I listen to Ghosteen I'm tempted to reverse it: clearly I'm meant to feel something, but that putative emotion is buried deep in layers upon layers of smug theatrical artifice. I don't buy his incantations in the least, and all I'm left with as a newcomer to his oeuvre is the man's Reputation.
― pomenitul, Friday, 18 October 2019 10:02 (four years ago) link
I think that's fair, or at least not unfair. Context carries a lot of weight on this album. Getting into Cave via this album would be a little like diving into Autechre and starting with "All End."
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 18 October 2019 12:17 (four years ago) link
He's not even that great in concert these days. Around the time of Henry's Dream and Let Love In the concerts were extraordinary, the Bad Seeds were such a force back then. Some of the best live shows I ever saw. I find Cave's shows quite boring now.
― Fried Egg Sandwich, Friday, 18 October 2019 12:42 (four years ago) link
Having gone to one of the Skeleton Tree arena shows it sort of worked, and I enjoyed it, but I'm not sure I have the urge to go this time round.
OTM about the Henry's Dream shows, they were the ones with the Mercy Seat endurathon version iirc.
― So, your CV says you're a (checks notes) DJ and stand-up comedian (aldo), Friday, 18 October 2019 12:48 (four years ago) link
I'm too much of a johnny-come-lately to have seen him around that time, but the Skeleton Tree shows were incredible for me, just this total communal love-fest.
― van dyke parks generator (anagram), Friday, 18 October 2019 13:00 (four years ago) link
the Push the Sky Away tour was fucking amazing I don't dig the album, but I'd really recommend seeing Once More With Feeling before you dismiss it all as smug showmanshiptbh I think he's a bit lost but for understandable reasons
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 18 October 2019 13:13 (four years ago) link
Yeah, I saw Once More With Feeling. In 3D! It was okay. Don't know if it was a necessary film to make, I just felt a bit sad after I saw it and wished the album was better. The Road To God Knows Where is good if you've not seen it.
Ellis is a weak link for me, I just don't like what he brings to the band. Sonically I find him a real turn off.
― Fried Egg Sandwich, Friday, 18 October 2019 13:18 (four years ago) link
Lately I might agree with that. He's a wild man, so it's kind of too bad these days he's relegated to playing little micro synths or whatever. But when he picks up his violin or a guitar he's pretty rocking.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 18 October 2019 13:40 (four years ago) link
I would agree with most of that, I like Skeleton Tree more than you but this isn't his best era for sureEllis can be so great, Dirty Three was so amazing live and he was great on the Push tourbut yeah this new one reminds me a bit of when I go to Guitar Center to get strings on sale and end up fucking around with doing droney pads on some display synth for fifteen minutes
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 18 October 2019 13:52 (four years ago) link
Can't remember which tour (Abattoir Blues possibly) but I saw The Dirty Three support the Bad Seeds once, Warren was absolutely amazing then. He played in the Bad Seeds the same night too. Crazy energy.
I wonder how many people who put Ghosteen in their albums of the year lists will be listening to it in one, five, ten years? It just doesn't feel like an album to be listened to much for me. I could always go back to Let Love In because it's such a stonkingly good, end-to-end killer record, but these last three albums just don't have that pull. They feel like worthy pieces of art that were important for Nick to make, but as music albums, not so compelling.
That fucking awful Bunny Munro book (I remember Q describing it as "like being hit over the head with a squeaky sex toy) was the beginning of a sharp artistic downward trend for Cave.
― Fried Egg Sandwich, Friday, 18 October 2019 14:54 (four years ago) link
it'll be in my albums of the year list and i probably will be listening to it occasionally for the next 10 years, it's really that gorgeous
― ufo, Friday, 18 October 2019 15:03 (four years ago) link
i understand why the change in sound may not really interest long-time fans at all though
― ufo, Friday, 18 October 2019 15:06 (four years ago) link
I wonder how many people who put Ghosteen in their albums of the year lists will be listening to it in one, five, ten years?
incredibly boring way of thinking about music ahoy
― american bradass (BradNelson), Friday, 18 October 2019 15:13 (four years ago) link
Boring or not, I think it's not a totally unreasonable stance/standard. The broader question is, is it an album that you'd put into regular circulation as something you'd reach for before another album, either by the same artist or not? I don't know. I think of something like "Vulnicura" by Bjork, which I really liked at the time but haven't listened to since (and I never heard her most recent album). Or the second Bon Iver album, which I recall being kind of cool, but which I haven't felt the need to listen to since its release as well. I mean, there are only so many hours in the day. There are something like 20 Nick Cave albums at this time, that could be all I listened to, but if I was jonesin' for Nick Cave I'm not sure what it would take for me to grab the new one (or any of the recent ones) over the 5 or so I like a lot more.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 18 October 2019 16:10 (four years ago) link
I could always go back to Let Love In because it's such a stonkingly good, end-to-end killer record, but these last three albums just don't have that pull.
I feel the same way, Eggsy. As you said, Nick *had* to make them, and I respect that and find things to love on all of them, but they're so laden with context for me that they're hard to revisit. "Ghosteen" just slays me. As a parent, it's one of your my nightmares writ large.
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Friday, 18 October 2019 18:28 (four years ago) link
Some not particularly coherent thoughts that I might come back to:
a) I guess he has to make the music he has to make, at this point.
b) I guess he's in a position (financially, whatever) that he can make the records he needs to make.
c) I don't like the idea of "Good music will be listened to in the future". You can play a record once and it change your life. There's no expectation that you watch a good film multiple times, I don't think.
― djh, Friday, 18 October 2019 18:53 (four years ago) link
this new one reminds me a bit of when I go to Guitar Center to get strings on sale and end up fucking around with doing droney pads on some display synth for fifteen minutes
hahaha OTM
― meaulnes, Friday, 18 October 2019 18:54 (four years ago) link
I wonder this about literally every new record I've purchased since 2010 or so (with the exception of NTS Sessions 1-4) but I also acknowledge that this is a 'me' problem and not a 'music' problem. I also concede that I still get a lot of enjoyment from the ritual of getting swept up in the fever that still accompanies the release of particular albums. Last month when every message board was talking about Fear Inoculum? That was fun as hell. I dunno if I'll be listening to that album in five or ten years (probably not) but I had a good time getting swept up in all the excitement (see also: A Moon Shaped Pool). Ghosteen feels like one of those albums. This is why I am always loath to declare 'omg best album since xxx' and such, even when it might feel that way at the time.
― Paul Ponzi, Friday, 18 October 2019 19:06 (four years ago) link
He's not even that great in concert these days.
I saw him on "The First Born Is Dead" tour, which was as wild as anything. He encored with "Wild World" which almost made up for me never getting to see The Birthday Party.
I think I have probbaly seen him play a dozen times since then including one TV recording in G
― stirmonster, Friday, 18 October 2019 20:51 (four years ago) link
I think I have probbaly seen him play a dozen times since then including one TV recording in Glasgow in front of an audience of around 100 which was so intimate that Blixa was practically sat on top of me while he was playing.
But the best time I
― stirmonster, Friday, 18 October 2019 20:53 (four years ago) link
I think I have probably seen him play a dozen times since then including one TV recording in Glasgow in front of an audience of around 100 which was so intimate that Blixa was practically sat on top of me while he was playing.
But the best time I ever saw him was last year in an enormo-dome which I was expecting not to enjoy. He managed to make a 15000 capacity venue feel more intimate than that TV recording.
sorry for the muti posts - my phone is having a meltdown.
― stirmonster, Friday, 18 October 2019 20:56 (four years ago) link
I've seen him a few different times since the mid '90s, but I haven't seen any of the recent big shows, just clubs and theaters. Speaking of context, what throws me a little bit is his stylistic turn came with Push the Sky Away, well before the death of his son, and even most of Skeleton Tree was iirc written or recorded before tragedy hit, too. Of course, that album is eerily resonant with what we, as fans/listeners, know happened, and the 3D movie subtly but explicitly expands on that feeling. So of course the new one is the first composed and recorded after the death of his son, and we listen with that in mind, but contextually I hear it as very much of a piece with the last three first and foremost. I'm honestly curious where he goes next, whether he stays in this minimal electro-acoustic mode or moves on to something else.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 18 October 2019 21:33 (four years ago) link
"He's not even that great in concert these days."
this is a bewildering statement to me. He's exceptional. Different than the 80's and 90's yeah, but that was a long fucking time ago.
― akm, Friday, 18 October 2019 21:44 (four years ago) link
On a separate note: Robert Ham (who...used to post here? still does? my brain is soft on this point) earlier today overheard a guy talk about this guy's friend who has a pizza place in the San Juan Islands in Washington. To quote Robert, the pizza place guy "is having a mural painted featuring Nick Cave, David Bowie, Joe Strummer and one other famous rocker he couldn't remember the name of sitting around a table eating pizza together." Needless to say I want to see this thing immediately.
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 18 October 2019 21:58 (four years ago) link
Pics or it hasn't happened
― So, your CV says you're a (checks notes) DJ and stand-up comedian (aldo), Friday, 18 October 2019 23:19 (four years ago) link
I’ve seen Nick Cave a slightly embarrassing number of times going back to Henry’s Dream. The highlights were the tours for The Boatman’s Call and Abattoir Blues, absolutely exceptional shows with the new material feeling super vital. I’ve seen the last few outings and the new stuff has been good but for me they get a bit rote when the setlist warhorses are wheeled out - Red Right Hand, From Her to Eternity, Tupelo, Into Your Arms, Ship Song. I get why you’d want to play those songs and if any of those shows was your first NC show it would totally deliver.
The show I saw on the Push The Sky Away tour had Jubilee Street as like the 3rd song and it was unbelievable, one of the most extraordinary live music moments I’ve ever seen. I could have left at that point totally satisfied.
― umsworth (emsworth), Saturday, 19 October 2019 00:50 (four years ago) link
Nick Cave, David Bowie, Joe Strummer and one other famous rockerBob Marley or GTFO
― an incoherent crustacean (MatthewK), Saturday, 19 October 2019 02:31 (four years ago) link
Iggy IMO
― Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Saturday, 19 October 2019 04:27 (four years ago) link
saw bad seeds in a theatre san diego in 2017... still probably the best rock show i've been to. never seen a band with dynamic range as broad as that. nick's presence was out of this world, and being part of the crowd rushing the stage was surreal.
― meaulnes, Saturday, 19 October 2019 12:23 (four years ago) link
No More Shall We Part tour for me. I'm more or less a casual fan but to this day it was one of the best rock shows I've ever attended.
The new record's just ok imo. I really love "Night Raid" but none of the others are sticking. FWIW I didn't much care for Skeleton Tree either.
― Paul Ponzi, Saturday, 19 October 2019 12:30 (four years ago) link
yeah. it's a shame the last two records don't really hold up to the amount of fuss - and magnetism - of the recent documentaries, tours, talks, etc. i really do think the seeds are world class musicians and nick's an amazing writer, but i just expect something a little more than microkorg for an hour.
― meaulnes, Saturday, 19 October 2019 13:49 (four years ago) link
So after bailing early on the stream as I noted up thread I held off on listening until the actual physical thing arrived. Listening last night my impression was I liked it quite a bit more (listening to a youtube stream on my headphones on my phone at work isn't probably the ideal listening environment) and approaching it in terms of Alice Coltrane's late devotional records I think helped but it into better prescriptive.
Musically, it reminds me of a lot of weird late 70s French synth stuff, Bernard Szajner or Richard Pinhas, though it isn't as urgent as any of that, more languid, more Tangerine Dream-y, ("Hollywood" is basically the score of a William Friedkin movie)...but with Nick obv singing/decanting over the top of it. More slippery then I usually like to hear NC/Bds but it was growing on me
Lots of weird animal/burning/fire/LA/Jesus images coming through in the lyrics...made me wonder if being semi-Malibu based they were affected by the Woolsey Fire
Made me think he has actually made a weird/divisive record that he always claims "Nocutrama" is, but overall I think I liked it, it makes up an interesting triptych with the last two, but I totally get why people wouldn't like it, my wife was really not feeling it.
Also interesting, Warren & Nick are the only ones who have their pictures in the artwork anywhere, in the very smeary, 80s gatefold
― chr1sb3singer, Friday, 8 November 2019 15:08 (four years ago) link