Radiohead In Not-A-Bunch-Of-Black-Guys Shocker!

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''Thom Yorke is a white guy from England. He sings like a white guy from England. He's being himself, basically''

no no he is an opera singer that is why Dan likes him ;-)

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:37 (twenty years ago) link

dan - I almost thought of 'electioneering' when I almost wrote 'where's radiohead's "territorial pissings"?'

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:39 (twenty years ago) link

I enjoyed the article, and I felt, summed up what most people are really thinking anyway.

However, I hope when I get as old as Christgau, I don't still care this much about music.

Or maybe I do.

David Allen, Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:41 (twenty years ago) link

God, "Myxomatosis" is fucking fantastic, isn't it?

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:46 (twenty years ago) link

(oh no, this is cross-posted with refutations of itself!)

I'm unconvinced of Radiohead's emotional range, to be honest: possibly I'm not as adept as Mark at "screening Yorke out," but none of their sonic diversions manage to change the tone very forcibly. I think the singularity this creates around them is a big part of why they're popular in the way that they are: they look like "the only rock band that matters" because they're one of few rock bands to pick such a not-ingratiating path and follow it so single-mindedly.

Point of comparison: Disintegration. The tone of Radiohead since Kid A reminds me of parts of this record, with two major differences. The first difference is a good one: Radiohead can get cranky and frantic in ways Disintegration rarely attempted, and the Cure has never sounded as ominously or excitingly spazzy as anything like "National Anthem." The second difference is the one that bothers me: Radiohead remind me of Disintegration, but stripped of every moment of earnest or even hopeful beauty. They will not, from what I can tell, ever again do anything like a "Plainsong" or a "Pictures of You." (And even when they did do them, they didn't turn out so well: "High and Dry" / "Stop Whispering...")

Or maybe they will, and they'll just hide it away: last week on M2 I caught Yorke playing "True Love Waits" and was satisfied for the first time. This was the range, the shift, the relief, that was missing from the past three records -- of which I liked Amnesiac best probably because its odd-and-ends format actually lent it that sense of topography. Radiohead sometimes do sound to me like one long moan, albeit a pretty glorious one with some immaculately assembled music; all I ask for is the occasional moment of hitting land or breaking down or seeking peace, no matter how undercut or troubled or complicated it might be. (Which is basically a repeat of what I said here however long ago about Radiohead doing tension with no release: let them bubble up bright or dream pretty for thirty seconds, even, and I'll be on board.)

nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:47 (twenty years ago) link

Now that I think about it, they may have confused their sonic progression -- slicing out all the strummy guitar tunes -- with an emotional one, because they sliced out most traces of a smile, however wounded, along with it.

nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:50 (twenty years ago) link

Mark S: It's not what he means to say, but I definitely think it is in his subtext.

James: Music should be assessed on its own terms out of fairness and common sense, basically. I think that anyone who should consider themselves to be a decent and professional critic should consider each work of art on its own terms as well as how it relates in the context of the culture at large. Ultimately, I believe that the larger context is much less important, and when writers focus on that (as Christgau certainly does) it ceases to be about the piece of art and more about how that art relates to their set of biases and their limited understanding of something much larger than themselves.

Too much of this review is spent trying to contextualize Radiohead within a world that exists entirely in the head of one man, informed mostly by other people who have a similarly skewed and myopic view of culture and art.

So I say: fuck context. Trying to fit things into a percieved context of the world reveals only the biases, ego, and limited understanding of the critic, and are not very helpful in the long run.

Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:52 (twenty years ago) link

Nabisco, the entire point is that the SMILE IS IN THE MUSIC. Don't make me list every Radiohead song that proves this (to me).

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:55 (twenty years ago) link

Why is emotional range SO IMPORTANT?

Andy K (Andy K), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:56 (twenty years ago) link

some bands 'matter' more to some ppl and not others. radiohead matter too much to rock critics unfortunately.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:57 (twenty years ago) link

I agree with Andy K - emotional range shouldn't be so important. Not every artist should be expected to do everything. That's just ridiculous. I mean, can you name an artist that realistically covers a wide range of emotions? There can't be too many. Most folks tend to specialize, you know?

Radiohead don't cover every emotion that a person can have, but they do cover a lot of nuances within their limited emotional palette, which I think is a major part of their appeal. I think that they are good at capturing lots of in-between emotions, which isn't always easy. Think of it like you're mixing paint - it's like they've got a knack for mixing very specific obscure shades and hues of green and blue.

Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:02 (twenty years ago) link

Why is emotional range SO IMPORTANT?

Because Kurt taught us how to feel, man. *sob*

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:04 (twenty years ago) link

how on earth do you figure that as his subtext? stating that Yorke's singing contains basically no traces of Africa in it isn't any kind of problem unless you decide to make it one, and Xgau doesn't. you do.

and why shouldn't emotional range be important? there would be just as much of a problem if the Ramones had been the biggest band in the world, too--as in, gee, how does something with such preconceived limits reach so many people? (and haha Ned but get real, that's not what he's saying at all)

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:06 (twenty years ago) link

hey i'll scribble my name on a piece of paper. i am emo.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:07 (twenty years ago) link

or more to the point isn't any kind of statement-that-there-is-a-problem unless etc.

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:07 (twenty years ago) link

Emotional range is (sometimes) important in order to keep (certain types of) records from getting a bit dull and monotonous. It's not exactly critical, but with an emotionalist project it's worth hoping for.

Dan: I dunno, you can list, I guess, but I never hear anything really cut through. I'm not asking for "happy," obviously, since I'm counting "True Love Waits" as part of what I'm looking for; it just all feels a bit like watching Sisyphus push the boulder up the hill, except without the part where it rolls back down, or like watching Prometheus chained to the rock, except the birds never come. That's just me.

nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:10 (twenty years ago) link

"Life In A Glass House"!!!!
"Lucky"!!!!
"Pulk/Pull Revolving Doors"!!!!
"Pyramid Song"!!!!
"Let Down"!!!!
"Just"!!!!
"Sit Down, Stand Up"!!!!
"Myxomatosis"!!!!
"Idioteque"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:18 (twenty years ago) link

M Matos: then why even bring the Africa thing up at all? It's a total nonissue. It's a no brainer. Why make a point of it?

Also, Michaelangelo - who do you think out there has a wide emotional range?


Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:18 (twenty years ago) link

wow, even on their happy songs Thom sounds like he's watching his mother get beaten (smile in the music or no).

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:18 (twenty years ago) link

"Just" is angry. "Idioteque" is apocalyptically afraid. "Let Down" is the closest to a bonafide happy sounding song I can gather from that list.

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:20 (twenty years ago) link

With every passing day I grow more confident in my decision to not listen to this album. It's in the changer and I almost got caught today & wound up hearing the opening thirty seconds or so but then I realized what was going on and listened to the new Nevermore instead

J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:20 (twenty years ago) link

Anthony: I'm not asking for "happy," obviously, since I'm counting "True Love Waits" as part of what I'm looking for

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:21 (twenty years ago) link

matos's posts have little moldova in them.

amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:21 (twenty years ago) link

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. I'm actually glad they don't write happy songs, cuz they'd probably sound like Coldplay then.

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:24 (twenty years ago) link

why not bring it up? it's something he noticed that seems unique--lots of singers use those effects but it's usually r&b derived, or at least sounds like it, and Yorke's use of them don't. so it's certainly worth noting.

ams: "moldova"?

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:24 (twenty years ago) link

"africa" still doesn't seem germane to me except as an indicator of christgau's bugaboos and preconceptions.

amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:26 (twenty years ago) link

matos i like your posts in spite of their lack of moldavic qualities.

amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:27 (twenty years ago) link

and why shouldn't emotional range be important? there would be just as much of a problem if the Ramones had been the biggest band in the world, too--as in, gee, how does something with such preconceived limits reach so many people?

How many people realistically expect one artist to cover all of their listening needs in terms of emotional range? I guess if you're only going to listen to one artist it'll get tedious very quickly, but if you've got anything even close to a well rounded record collection (which I think most people do, in their own way), you're probably going to go to different artists for different emotions, different ideas, different occasions. So it really doesn't matter if one artist only is good at covering three or four basic emotions. Someone else will compensate.

Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:28 (twenty years ago) link

matthew you answer your own question: why even bring the Africa thing up at all? - as well as how it relates in the context of the culture at large. also, the notion that radiohead is painted as the only band that matters, the band that's gonna save the world with wail wail wail, exists only in xgau's head is ludicrous (see: any tagline to any radiohead cover story post-ok computer).

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:28 (twenty years ago) link

and the notion that 'africa' (and all that word apparently implies) is irrelevant to the culture at large and just a quirk of xgau's, like he's complaining there's no harmonica on the record (and btw, he's not even complaining there's no africa in yorke's voice), is ludicrous as well

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:30 (twenty years ago) link

Yeah the piece seems pretty good to me and I'm a Radiohead fan, I think it's like Xgau's voice grates on yr nerves Matthew and everything he says just makes you guy "Oooh! God I hate that guy's voice!"

J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:32 (twenty years ago) link

"guy"="go" above, sorry

J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:33 (twenty years ago) link

all right, never mind all my smarmy posts above. the moldava thing was just dumb.

part of what i'm saying is rather simplye: it's disingenuous to say "africa" when he means "rhythm and blues"! if he actually means "africa" then it is simply not germane. (saying "rhythm and blues" isn't terribly germane either, but it's not risible.)

amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:33 (twenty years ago) link

as far as wide emotional range, let's see: Atmosphere, Neil Young, the Streets, Ghostface Killah, Sleater-Kinney, Scarface, Missy Elliott, the Mountain Goats, Baaba Maal, Neko Case, Rancid, Sonic Youth, Aesop Rock, the Reputation, Mr. Lif, DJ Shadow, Queens of the Stone Age, Meshell Ndegeocello, Stephin Merritt in whatever guise, the Mekons, Rjd2, Drive-By Truckers, Spoon, Imperial Teen, Cee-Lo, Cornershop, Raphael Saadiq, Pink, Sugababes, the Rapture, No Doubt, Nas, Eminem, Pet Shop Boys, the White Stripes, Elvis Costello, Pretty Girls Make Graves, and about 100 other bands all seem a little more wide-ranging emotionally to me than Radiohead, who even when I enjoy them seem to occupy a pretty narrow range. which is fine--microhouse occupies a VERY narrow range and it's my favorite music right now.

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:34 (twenty years ago) link

you have to be living on another planet to believe that "Africa" = "rhythm & blues"

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:35 (twenty years ago) link

why is saying/meaning 'africa' not germane? was it germane when eno said it?

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:36 (twenty years ago) link


I'm confused now, because earlier you (Matos) said: " why not bring it up? it's something he noticed that seems unique--lots of singers use those effects but it's usually r&b derived, or at least sounds like it, and Yorke's use of them don't. so it's certainly worth noting."

So is he invoking r&b, or african music, or what?

amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:36 (twenty years ago) link

"Matos, what's that music you're listening to?"
"Well, dude, it's this hot mbalax record from Senegal."
"Gee, those rhythms are kind of weird, and it's kind of angular tonally. But it sounds really cool, I like it."
"That's because it's rhythm & blues!" [winks at camera]

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:38 (twenty years ago) link

(Microhouse - expectant sadness or stunned bliss, Matos?)

Cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:38 (twenty years ago) link

(both, Cozen. it's breakbeat hardcore's flipside--expectant comedown and frenzied bliss)

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:40 (twenty years ago) link

B-b-but...

I can't see why Christgau would mention Africa if he simply meant that Yorke's voice had little mbalax (or juju, or Afrobeat) in it? And this is different from Cobainbuckleyknowlesdioncreedaguilera how? I get the sense that "Africa" is meant to invoke some tradition which includes r&b and leaves out guys like Yorke.... which I think is misguided and disingenuous.

I hope this doesn't turn ugly because I'm not trying to make fun of you or anything, Matos, I'm honestly a bit confused at this point.

amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:40 (twenty years ago) link

hmm, I can see yr point, but saying "Africa" is also a way of saying "not remotely European." I think Xgau has written about Yorke as an inheritor of Euro art music tradition, and I certainly buy that. (also "Africa" reads better in that context than "rhythm & blues" which w/Xgau is always plenty of the point)

xpost

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:42 (twenty years ago) link

in other words, he's saying "this guy sounds completely European and not remotely African, African-American, or American" (which in Xgau's definition always retains some or plenty of Africa)

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:43 (twenty years ago) link

This is like The Dream ILM Thread! Xgau + Racism + Overdiscussed Band!! Where's Momus?

Sonny A. (Keiko), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:43 (twenty years ago) link

(the mbalax post was just me having fun, btw)

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:44 (twenty years ago) link

Sonny A. otm!!! I better get out of here...

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:44 (twenty years ago) link

i wish he could describe how yorke sounds european in terms a bit more vivid and concrete. better than "pretentious college boy" at least!

(don't we all wish we could describe music in terms that are more vivid and concrete!!)

amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:44 (twenty years ago) link

i guess the whole dichotomy being set up--africa on one side and "pretentious college boy" on the other--felt a bit schematic/reductionist to me and does a disservice not just to yorke but to africa and r&b etc. but it's no biggy, i'll admit.

amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:45 (twenty years ago) link

except he's not saying "no africa = pretentious college boy", he's saying "'Fraught and self-involved with no time for jokes, not asexual but otherwise occupied, and never ever common = pretentious college boy"

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:48 (twenty years ago) link

the problem comes because he's been putting these terms forth for years, in much more concrete ways, elsewhere and in other pieces, and he definitely expects his readership to catch the x-references. so those of us who read him a lot (like me) do, and he alienates lots of other folx. not sure what to say to that except shrug.

but there's no dichotomy being set up! he's using lack-of-Africa as a description of Yorke's vocal style--it's a parenthetical comment, used to shade the comment. he's referred to De La Soul as pretentious college boys too and you won't see him refusing to say they're African.

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:48 (twenty years ago) link


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