Every huge artist has their "New Jersey" - a huge event album that ultimately feels a bit hollow & signals a career decline

yeah, Culture II definitely feels like a NJ.
We'll have to see what happens with their next album though.

Have we talked about Prince and Stevie Wonder already ?
I'm not sure they had a NJ, actually, which is surprising for such major stars with such a long career and that many albums.

from a ticket sales standpoint they're still a commercial juggernaut

Tbf, this is also true of Bon Jovi:
https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/chart-beat/7784813/bon-jovi-hot-tours-31-million
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2013/dec/16/bon-jovi-highest-grossing-tour
https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackomalleygreenburg/2011/01/03/inside-bon-jovi-200-million-payday-music-business/#1a201ad67a78

I don't think most people would complain about that career decline.

prince's would be diamonds and pearls

hum. I don't think it qualifies for many reasons, one of them being that the follow-up was still one of Prince's highest selling albums (more than any of his 80s album except 1999, PR and Batman).
Actually Love Symbol would be his NJ on that aspect (his last album selling as much as his 80s output).

D&P : 6.8M (his biggest selling album after PR, of course with 21M, and close to Batman at 7M)
Love Symbol : 4.8M
Come : 1.3M

Diamonds and Pearls OTM

Mini slump of Graffiti Bridge before D&P tho.

prince was ruled out early on i thought - too many albums, decline too gradual, no one obvious NJ candidate.

if stevie had one it'd be SitKoL but as discussed, it's too well-regarded and he remained a superstar in the 80s, just minus the every-album-a-classic artistic cred he'd previously had. something similar applies to elton john - we settled on Rock Of The Westies but it's not "event" enough to really fit so you're left with GYBR which is definitely an "event" with at least a bit of hollowness to it... but it also feels like his iconic, top-of-the-world album, and the decline is spread over several following records such that you can't really point to that one and say "it started to go sour here, behind the fireworks." i think NJs are rare or nonexistent before Thriller... with people knocking out a record every six months to a year, very very few albums were marketed or landed as major, monumental Events, and the ones that did have largely remained canonical. so like a deep beatles revisionist might argue for Sgt. Pepper's or the White Album as a secret NJ but 99% of everybody would think you were crazy. The Wall might qualify on quality and "career decline" but it seems a little too much bigger than its predecessors to really fit the arc.

Yeah, Elton and Prince are out: too many singles, too many mild resurgences in popularity.

SitKoL sounds totally crazy to me !
Hotter than July, since it was the final "classic" album, maybe.

I don't think anyone listened to Key of Life even years later and thought, "Well, this sounds hollow and his popularity will start to sag." He won three Album of the Year Grammys; the dude was due for a fall.

if Wonder has one it's In Square Circle. Take a look at the underwhelming reception for Characters.

and was Hotter Than July a huge event? he'd sort of let things cool down by putting out Secret Life of Plants. i think he doesn't have one. Key of Life is like Mellon Collie, where there may be some who think it sounds a bit hollow but far more who consider it the crowning glory on a rich and productive period, and then the followup is so obviously NOT "here's more of the same" that by the time they come "back," the stakes are lower. stevie was obv way more successful post-SitKoL than billy pumpkin was post-MCIS but whatever route their career decline took, it wasn't down the New Jersey Turnpike.

Regarding The Wall:

Floyd's The Final Cut went platinum in the USA & was #1 in the UK, I'll put it forward

― Euler, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 7:40 PM (six years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ILM is one of the few places where Key of Life isn't beloved.

re: Prince, I mostly agree with you about a lack of NJ but he kept a good sales level from 1999 to Symbol.
After Symbol he was over as a relevant mainstream star, though.

Painting 'Slave' on one's face has a way of doing that.

(In terms of corporate support behind singles, making albums events, etc.)

third stage is weird because of the time jump but as noted upthread it was a huge event

My enduring memory of this record is of hearing "Amanda" on the radio for the first time. After the song ended, there were several seconds of dead air -- extremely unusual for the biggest FM rock station in Chicago. The DJ finally came on and said, "We waited eight years for that?!"

We waited eight years for that
Like we did for Pat

AMANDA

We waited eight years for that
And the album landed splat
AMANDA

ILM is one of the few places where Key of Life isn't beloved.

― The Silky Veils of Alfred (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, September 4, 2018 8:10 AM (three hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

wait what? people on here don't like Songs in the Key of Life??

i think alfred's projecting on us

I am projecting a photo of the Talking Book sleeve.

Songs... is way too long. Innervisions and Talking Book are much better records.

it's hardly hollow though

SitKoL is too long but with so many great songs that it’s alright.
Talking Book is my favourite albums but Songs is right behind.
Anyway, one of the best albums ever can’t be a NJ, come on now !

SITKOL had massive singles and was his biggest seller, i really maintain a crucial part of NJs is that their initial success is primarily based on residual excitement from the album immediately preceding it, and the wait and buildup carrying over into the album's release and then being deflated. Which is why the perfect New Jersey is actually still probably Adrenalize, i remember the excitement at "Let's Get Rocked" fading very quickly into an empty feeling that it was all over for the Lep.

a crucial part of NJs is that their initial success is primarily based on residual excitement from the album immediately preceding it

yeah i agree w/this

I feel like Songs in the Key of Life was, before I even heard Stevie Wonder (outside of 80s radio songs), the one that I sort of read or heard about as a classic album

me too

yep

it's funny, every time i bring up SitKoL in this thread I'm explicitly stating it fails to be a NJ but it comes out wrong because like eighteen posts go by with people saying no way it's a NJ. to be clear, I like the album a lot and do not think it is a NJ!

New Jerseys i think are never albums that have a lasting legacy despite their massive sales. i think that is the purest distilled essence of a NJ album (though by no means its only definition, tbh.)

related: it was pretty funny when i went into Target a couple years ago and their new "vintage" rock shirts section included an Adrenalize tour shirt. i think the creative team back at HQ was missing a key member or two.

but different people have different ideas, like Doctor Casino constantly going on about SITKOL being a New Jersey

>_<

i am the new jersey to da croupier's slippery

whiney is dom's NJ imo

culture ii does not feel like a nj to me

really ?
To me it's like an obvious NJ case !

To be a New Jersey:
- follow-up to a huge, (possibly) defining record : check
- has less and/or smaller hits than prev album - or - hits based more on momentum than appeal : check
- brings with it the feeling that the NEXT record (if there is one) will see the bottom fall out (relatively speaking): check

But of course, as we've seen many times in this thread, this is not rocket science !

Lovesexy is Prince's surely. The Graffiti Bridge film didn't even get a Uk cinema release that's how bad things had got by then.

Yeah but then Batman, D&P and Love Symbol were big.
Love Symbol has his last mainstream hits.

So regarding the thread title, not EVERY huge artist has a NJ !

Lovesexy definitely his NJ
D&P and Symbol had some hits and sold but none of them really felt like zeitgeisty events (same way Bon Jovi had hits or at least one after NJ)

Yeah but regarding the NJ conditions, after Lovesexy there's Batman which was HUGE and then D&P which was his 2nd biggest album sales
I don't hink a NJ can be followed by some of the most successful albums of an artist...

also, Lovesexy followed Sign which wasn't more successful than the previous albums, so again, not a NJ condition.

@dyl

How do you figure CII isn't a New Jersey?