Every huge artist has their "New Jersey" - a huge event album that ultimately feels a bit hollow & signals a career decline

Does Phil Collins have a New Jersey?

― billstevejim,

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f5/Phil_Collins-But_Seriously.jpg/220px-Phil_Collins-But_Seriously.jpg

A major act I don’t think has been mentioned here —

Public Enemy, Apocalypse 91... The Enemy Strikes Black

― stan in the place where you work (morrisp)

They weren't multiplatinum in '91.

Bon Jovi continued to have big hits throughout the '90s from albums like Keep The Faith. So I think an artist can still chart and have platinum albums post- New Jersey.

xxxxpost: yes, it's ...But Seriously, identified by chr1sb3singer upthread. We Can't Dance was also identified for Genesis, but controversially didn't make it to the poll.

xxp -- Why does it have to be multiplatinum to qualify?

The album peaked at No. 4 on the Billboard 200 chart and at No. 1 on the Top R&B/Hip-Hop Albums chart. On November 26, 1991, Apocalypse 91 was certified platinum by the Recording Industry Association of America for shipments of one million copies in the United States.

At a glance, looks like it performed better than their previous album...

Public Enemy talk leads to thinking of how a massive soundtrack single ("Fight The Power", "You Could Be Mine") ends up overshadowing the album that follows.

That was one of the criteria several years ago. And I don't think anyone considered a hollow album that augured the decline of PE.

*considered it

Was wondering why politics thread was quiet, realized it's cos yall in here

And I don't think anyone considered a hollow album that augured the decline of PE.

I thought we just established that "New Jersey" wasn't considered to be that (at the time)! I thought that was the point... it's only definable in retrospect, after you see how the artist's next albums perform.

Apocalypse '91 semi-qualifies i think...like a lot of NJ type albums it's really extremely good but it also felt like their moment was passing as it was being released. It's maybe not a full NJ though.

i kinda do think MJ's NJ is Bad as well...it was a huge album but the songs just weren't as undeniable except for a couple, maybe arguably only one. I'm not sure if external factors contributed to the NJ thing, i mean this was the time when MJ took some giant irreversible steps from being the coolest pop superstar in the world to the strangest and least-appealing to likely a majority of the tens of millions who scooped up Thriller.

i know a 2,000 post thread is a big ask, but if you're a new arrival who finds this kind of record nerdery entertaining, you may not find reading through it to be unpleasant homework. the multiplatinum requirement is there because this is about "huge artists" who release "huge event albums," and how their position in pop culture shifts over time, and none of that makes sense for an artist selling at subplatinum numbers, they just aren't central to pop culture enough to be comparable to michael jackson, g'n'r, or bon jovi. we may wish the artist was at that level of bigness but it isn't always the case.

that being said, i could see a case being made for public enemy because things aside from their raw sales marked their centrality and made them household names - newspaper features, suburban fear-mongering, edward furlong's t-shirt in terminator 2 - but this gets us further from the reception of the records themselves.

i think the friction between an anticipation/expectation on the part of the artist and perhaps the core fanbase that this album, the future New Jersey, will be a monstrous success that will equal or top the previous and perhaps be a true defining statement vs the reality that everyone else has moved on, isn't anticipating it as much, and the album is also actually not as compelling.

for some reason it reminds me of when an NFL running back runs for like 1800 yards in a season and everyone (especially the player and his coach) is saying he's going to rush for 2500 yards the next season, and then the guy creaks along for 1100 yards and declines and retires.

mea culpa on the "multiplatinum" thing (it's true I haven't read the whole thread); but doing a Ctl-F, I don't see that was ever firmly established as criteria?

i know a 2,000 post thread is a big ask, but if you're a new arrival who finds this kind of record nerdery entertaining, you may not find reading through it to be unpleasant homework.

tell that to my CPU

the thing about bad is that i suspect it's only a subset of music critics and dedicated fans who would consider it his real dropping-off point. in the wider culture i still think it's seen about the way as it was when it came out: big, awesome, still-occupying-the-throne followup by the biggest star in the world. some of its extra-musical stuff is iconic and central to his megastar persona (especially the costuming in the videos); the extra-musical steps into alienating the audience correspond much more to dangerous, chronologically. bad produced seven top-ten hits, of which five went to #1 and at least four are still in regular rotation ("bad," "man in the mirror," "smooth criminal," and "the way you make me feel"). new jersey had five top-ten hits but their long-term status is much shakier i'd say. bad also did not signal a career decline - dangerous did just about as good sales-wise.

morrisp - not by any means a formal criterion but i think it's more like, if record sales aren't in bon jovi scale, it's essential to prove "hugeness" and "event" in some other way, to avoid backsliding into talking about neutral milk hotel or what have you.

Every era has its own "Neutral Milk Hotel" - an act ultimately feels a bit hollow & signals a cultural decline

i think Bad qualifies in that it's a huge event album that in retrospect was just not at the same level and didn't have the same long-term listener enthusiasm. I would agree that it's a tough call, and I think MJ still being so huge in 1987 is kind of tricky, but i also think much of that album's success was riding on the success of Thriller as opposed to its own merits (which are not insignificant, but not near Thriller or Off the Wall level.) Dangerous...maybe? I guess it depends on which album was the one that took the wind out of MJ's sales.

going back a bit, as a U2 fan i can say they've had a weird career trajectory in terms of maintaining popularity and not being felled by their first NJ, and in fact coming back with their second-biggest selling album and one that is generally considered to be their best (if the Joshua Tree ain't.) I guess R&H doesn't quality in one sense: perhaps that it didn't quite feel like the gig was up at the time, it just felt like they'd made a major misstep. If we consider Pop as well, I think the same held true. The difference between the aftermaths of the two albums is for the former, U2 decided to do everything that was NOT expected of them, not just with the music but with full color ad campaigns and covers and garishness and OTT fashion. They went from posing like Mellencamp to trying to be like Bowie. But after Pop, they did what everyone would have expected them to do -- returned to a safer and more generic sound. So the stage was set for the actual NJ, which unlike the other two didn't feel like a misstep, it felt like they'd be continuing to do nothing surprising and they'd said everything they needed to say.

if one of the criteria of a new jersey is that your next album has to have a song called "keep the faith" on it, then bad wins.

now I'm trying to predict the next In the Aeroplane Over The Sea, the ten year old semi-obscure album turned supermeme

the next "Africa"

ha with both of those it's like, why didn't i bet somebody

xxxp Yeah, I totally get ya...

Nominating For Emma...

bon iver s/t is some indie NJ

wrt a U2 NJ I completely understand why y'all feel their career has been in decline for a while/felt a bit hollow but iirc RS had that iPhone invasion alb at #1 a few years back

neutral milk hotel were (and still are) good. they are more indicative of what i used to call the ani difranco problem, i.e. their ~mythology~ got annoying because of people who overperformatively liked them. in that way i guess they predicted the twitter age

(they're not the best elephant 6 band mind you. but they're not awful)

xps IMO Michael Jackson's "New Jersey" moment is the video for "Black & White"

But Seriously can be a New Jersey, ok.

IMO We Can't Dance is not a New Jersey because it sucks and was roundly, justifiably panned.

That doesn't matter.

I feel like a band losing hype machine status is separate from a New Jersey

i think a NJ can be many things, not limited to:

an extremely deflating bad or mediocre album that sells massively based on the artist's reputation alone and gets some mileage on people trying to make it happen, but it never does and basically is the final peak of chart dominance

the last gasp "good" album that people view quickly thereafter as the last thing they'll need to hear from an artist because while it's good, it's not especially interesting or feels like it's repeating ideas

Nominating For Emma...

― ... (Eazy), Thursday, August 30, 2018 12:33 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

wait isn't that his first album? no way a first album can be a new jersey

I guess if there are a bunch of EPs

Nono, nominating For Emma in response to

now I'm trying to predict the next In the Aeroplane Over The Sea, the ten year old semi-obscure album turned supermeme

― rip van wanko, Thursday, August 30, 2018 5:27 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think he was nomming For Emma as a new In the Aeroplane Over the Sea.

🤷‍♂️

In my experience the phrase is 'the jig is up', with a J.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/the_jig_is_up

I always say this (in its entirety):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiUlksOV6NM

fwiw i brought up NMH as an example of something that is not on-topic for this thread and which would be an annoying derail if any time were spent upon it

sounds about right for NMH in general

In my experience the phrase is 'the jig is up', with a J.

https://genius.com/Styx-renegade-lyrics

Re public enemy, when was the advent of soundscan? I think you could make the argument that public enemy was more central to music than was represented by their chart position (as I recall doggystyle was the real benefactor of that?)

I still think of the ultimate modern New Jersey being that Gaga album

Can a NJ be someone’s best album? Could Blackout be Britney’s NJ? Or had she already slipped into cult-ish territory by then?

Circus had two #1 hits, so probably not.

Britney's NJ would be In the Zone if it weren't for the slight complication of her still having a career

like the hype about the Madonna feature is prime new jersey surrounding material