Every huge artist has their "New Jersey" - a huge event album that ultimately feels a bit hollow & signals a career decline

Did “New Jersey” feel that way at the time (to Jovi fans)?

― stan in the place where you work (morrisp), Thursday, August 30, 2018 9:33 AM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

new jersey came out in 88 and yeah at that point they were still HUGE, obviously slippery when wet was this insane phenomenon

but by 88 it was like they were getting passed by on both sides, Appetite for Destruction was out and just seemed like a different beast more visceral and badass, on the other side Def Leppard Hysteria was still going strong and seemed like the ultimately 80s pop metal statement in some ways

plus thrash (metallica, anthrax etc) was getting bigger and more popular the whole pop metal thing felt like the air was going out of it slightly

this sounds like there's also a genre component, where the wave that helped one reach megastar status is now cresting. (by which Gaga would qualify, Drake not so much)

at the time it felt like New Jersey was released very soon after Slippery When Wet, like the exhausting hype of the previous record / tour hadn't wound down yet when new hype was trying to build

(since every Drake album that's been mentioned has been generally ahead of trends, not at the very end of them)

where is da croupier, we need him/her/them

The record had a gigantic rollout for sure. Sam Kinison was in the "Bad Medicine" video!

Might be worth looking at what the industry thought at the time. Billboard review of "Bad Medicine" (9/24/88):
BON JOVI
Bad Medicine (3:52)
PRODUCER: Bruce Fairbairn
WRITERS: J. Bon Jovi, R. Sambora, D. Child
PUBLISHERS: Bon Jovi /New Jersey Underground /PolyGram /Desmobile /SBK April, ASCAP
Mercury 870 657 -7 (c /o PolyGram)
Heavy metal thunder, complete with a furious guitar break, sounds more like Van Halen than the polished rockers that moved 8 million copies of "Slippery When Wet "; with the Bon Jovi name attached to it, however, single could sound like Metallica and still have a good shot at No. 1.

and of the album (10/1/1988):
BON JOVI
New Jersey
PRODUCER: Bruce Fairbairn
Mercury 836 345
Uneven album ranges from the inspired heavy metal /gospel peak of "Lay Your Hands On Me" to such valleys as "I'll Be There For You," which is an outright steal of the Beatles' "Don't Bring Me Down," and the overblown, anachronistic "Living In Sin." That said, Fairbairn's adroit production gives even the weaker cuts appeal, and when the guys hit their stride, as on "Love For Sale," "Wild Is The Wind," and the single, "Bad Medicine" (in a slightly extended version here), the result is rock'n'roll heaven. May not move 8 million but won't fall much short.

i feel like the record after it has to be where everyone catches on to the fundamental emptiness of the project (aka "the gig is up") and... the s/t subverted that. therefore imo blur has no new jersey

― princess of hell (BradNelson), Thursday, August 30, 2018 3:31 PM (sixteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Then... how does 13 not qualify? Big, hyped album with big hyped bloated lead single (Tender), loads of filler, next album is lightweight and doesn't really sound like a full band effort?

Paul Grein's Chart Beat column 10/8:
BON JOVI's "New Jersey" enters the Top Pop Albums chart at No. 8. It's only the second album to debut in the top 10 this year, following Van Halen's "0U812," which bowed at No. 5 in June. "New Jersey" is off to a faster start than Bon Jovi's previous album, "Slippery When Wet," which took four weeks to reach the top 10. Bon Jovi isn't the only metal-oriented band making noise this week. Metallica's " ... And Justice for All" leaps to No. 6 in its third week on the pop albums chart, which is by far the band's best showing to date. Its previous best mark came last year when it hit No. 28 with "The $5.98 E.P.: Garage Days Re-Revisited." On the Hot 100, Def Leppard lands its first No. 1 hit with "Love Bites." It's the fifth single from the band's "Hysteria" album, which holds at No. 2 after spending six weeks at No. 1. Each of the "Hysteria" singles has climbed higher than the one before it. "Women" stalled at No. 80, "Animal" reached No. 19, "Hysteria" made No. 10, and "Pour Some Sugar On Me" hit No. 2. Def Leppard is the third metal band to land a No. 1 hit in the past year, following Whitesnake ( "Here I Go Again ") and Guns N' Roses ( "Sweet Child O' Mine "). Guns N' Roses hit No. 1 just three weeks ago, which means that Bobby McFerrin's a cappella smash was sandwiched at No. 1 between two hits by metal bands. Also: "Love Bites" is the second No. 1 hit of 1988 for producer Robert John "Mutt" Lange. It follows Billy Ocean's "Get Outta My Dreams, Get Into My Car."

And one week later:
BON JOVI's "New Jersey" leaps to No. 1 in its second week on the Top Pop Albums chart. It's the second album to hit No. 1 in just two weeks so far this year, following Van Halen's "0U812." The fact that both of the fastest-breaking albums of the year are by pop /metal bands should come as no surprise, because metal is shaping up as the hottest genre of the year. Metal or metal-leaning bands have monopolized the No. 1 spot on the pop album chart for 15 of the past 17 weeks. Def Leppard paced the pack for six weeks; Guns N' Roses and Van Halen did it for four weeks each. Since late June, only two non-metal acts have had a No. 1 album: Steve Winwood and Tracy Chapman. In fact, this week marks the second time in less than three months that the top three spots on the album chart have been dominated by metal bands. Bon Jovi has sprinted up the chart much faster than it did with its 1986 breakthrough album, "Slippery When Wet," which took seven weeks to reach No. 1. The folks at PolyGram must be delighted with the metal explosion: The label has two of the top three albums.

one of the fascinating things about a NJ is that one COULD hypothetically, satisfy the definition without the contents of the album itself being bloated and self-indulgent. we've developed so much the theory of how the records are promoted and sold, and the variables we've most parsed out and weighted most heavily are the quantifiable things that are basically label-side: overall sales, number of singles, performance of those singles in the short-term, long term airplay presence and streaming footprint. and none of that would SEEM to exclude a 36-minute album of restrained acoustic reflections, or even "it's like the last album but we all wanted to dial the production down, just slightly."

and YET, there's a tremendous correspondence, if you look at the canonical polled list (to which I think we've probably added, at most, three or four true new jersey discoveries over the past six years), between a "numbers" new jersey and a "content" new jersey. the albums are overstuffed and overlong. the songs are overstuffed and overlong. the production is overstuffed and exhausting. why? a big part surely is the "numbers" stuff affecting the "content" : the band is being pressed to do mega-tours, plus promotional crap (video shoots, tv appearances) for each of these numerous singles. they're tired. they're abusing stimulants to keep it up. their egos are bloated so they trust yes-men. they don't have the resiliency or creative power of the beatles or the motown headliners under similar pressures. to the extent that producers and songwriters are more key to the creative process, they may feel explicit pressure from the label to convey "event"-ness to match the marketing, and they look to what conveys "event" and for most genres under consideration, in the era under consideration... and that means loud, big, long, layered. something that - when the band appears out of smoke in the seven-minute video - it feels like it goes with that grand unveiling: THE BIGGEST BAND IN THE WORLD IS BACK, OH SHIIIIIIIIT!!!!

so, the songs fit the same mold as the last record, but they're just not *quite* as good, and harder to fit into radio playlists, and in the long term that makes them not *quite* as necessary to the band's text or to the seduction of fans buying catalog records.

btw, given how much i do believe this all has to do with the marketing and practices of the cassettes-and-CDs-and-MTV era, my conviction is that THE MASSACRE is the last "core" new jersey. everything after that is a much looser fit because all the indicators and label strategies of an "event" release have shifted, and the creation of "event" aura is much harder. they do still punch through when an artist is coming off of a big enough run of hits, has a clear enough status as one of the biggest acts in the world, and has not overly diluted the potential impact of THE WAIT IS OVER, THE NEW ALBUM IS HERE by constantly releasing stuff that's not on their albums. BORN THIS WAY and PRISM just about manage it imho. jury's out on taylor swift. rihanna is a bigger star than any of them but even her event album releases aren't events in quite the same way, imho, because she's such a ubiquitous presence on other people's hits.

(Note that NJ came out years before Soundscan was introduced, when No. 1 debuts were extremely rare.)

rihanna also probably released albums at too fast a rate to manage a new jersey

@ dog latin - it's hard for me to judge as an american how event-y any blur album was in the UK. maybe they all felt incredibly massive at the time. but it may be that what you're describing is more of a fairweather johnson? if it only has one big hyped single and people turn on it pretty quickly, it doesn't fit with the sense, at the time, that the band is just as big as ever. or if they've already descended a bit from their career peak then it also kinda falls at the wrong place in their narrative to count (one of the reasons we've always struggled with U2).

this sounds like there's also a genre component, where the wave that helped one reach megastar status is now cresting.

or perhaps: maybe it's where it becomes clear the artist isn't going to be able to adapt.

(...) stars, and it seems entirely plausible that they might be stars indefinitely -- a feeling that starts fading at the time the NJ. that's the point

So, regarding Drake, you think his stardom is fading atm ?
I'd say he's as big if not bigger than ever !

i have a theory that every super popular artist has a "New Jersey" - like Bon Jovi's album New Jersey -- where it's still super popular and even more popular than the albums that preceded it but there's some sense that the gig is up.

― Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:21 AM (41 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

here's another billboard review (by Steve Gett)

BOYS ARE BACK: Will Bon Jovi repeat the multiplatinum success of 1986's "Slippery When Wet" album with its upcoming Mercury/PolyGram release, "New Jersey "? You bet.
Due in stores Sept. 19, the new album has S- M -A-S -H written all over it, boasting all the key ingredients to satisfy top 40 listeners as well as the group's harder, metal - edged audience.
Following an atmospheric, rhythmic intro passage, "New Jersey" kicks off with "Lay Your Hands On Me," a hard - driving rocker that would make a perfect set opener for the band's upcoming live dates. Track two is the album's leadoff single, "Bad Medicine," which boogies with hints of ZZ Top and Dire Straits' "Money Far Nothing." Guitarist Richie Sambora contributes hot licks, as indeed he does throughout the entire album.
Next up is "Born To Be My Baby," an obvious contender for follow-up single release that could easily top the Hot 100 chart. Though very much in the commercial vein of "Slippery" hits like "Living On A Prayer" and "You Give Love A Bad Name," the song is by no means a cheap copy of either of those. Suffice is to say, the mo- ment you hear it, you know it's Bon Jovi.
The pace slows for the power ballad "Living In Sin" (minor hints of George Michael's "Father Figure" here and there), but we're rockin'-and-a-rollin' again on the six-minute-plus "Blood On Blood." Unquestionably the album's standout number, "Blood" has the dynamics of-dare it be said ? -a Bruce Springsteen epic. Check this one out ASAP.
For LP and cassette buyers, side two kicks off with "Home Bound Train," a dirty, gutsy, ballsy little rocker that features Jon Bon Jovi on harmonica solo.
Another likely candidate for future single release is the five -minute "Wild Is The Wind." This is followed by "Ride Cowboy Ride," a short'n'sweet little ditty that bears the sound of an old, scratched-up 78 rpm platter. "Ride" sets the Wild West / "Wanted Dead Or Alive" tone that continues on "Stick To Your Guns," arguably the album's weakest cut. To be blunt, one could live without the whole cowboy trip.
Bon Jovi scores, though, with the slower "I'll Be There For You," which also has hit -single potential. JBJ and his Garden State gang rock out in style on "99 In The Shade" before closing the album with the slightly offbeat, tongue -in -cheek "Love For Sale."
Advance copies of "New Jersey" are being kept under wraps, though a number of industryites were scheduled to hear a playback of the album during PolyGram's Aug. 18 satellite press conference. Judge for yourself, but The Beat's verdict on this one is a definite two thumbs up.

(it's called "boys are back" because they covered "the boys are back in town" for the STAIRWAY TO HEAVEN/HIGHWAY TO HELL comp)

Btw, Beyonce's NJ has been discussed at some point, surely ?
I'm not sure she's had one yet, though.

also i think born to be my baby is the best bon jovi song. also probably worth noting that the move of theirs that had the biggest impact in the year or so after NEW JERSEY came out was this :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_Cvi_-_wJg

xxpost
Yeah but what about "the feeling that starts fading at the time the NJ." then ?

@ dog latin - it's hard for me to judge as an american how event-y any blur album was in the UK. maybe they all felt incredibly massive at the time. but it may be that what you're describing is more of a fairweather johnson? if it only has one big hyped single and people turn on it pretty quickly, it doesn't fit with the sense, at the time, that the band is just as big as ever. or if they've already descended a bit from their career peak then it also kinda falls at the wrong place in their narrative to count (one of the reasons we've always struggled with U2).

― got the scuba tube blowin' like a snork (Doctor Casino), Thursday, August 30, 2018 4:01 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

They were always huge in the UK from Parklife onwards. There was a bit of a critical backlash/reassessment after TGE and some of Damon's comments in the press but nothing significant, and as Brad says the S/T kind of reinvented them. But 13 came out on a big wave of hype, they were still hugely successful and were kind of everywhere, but I'd say the album is half great and half filler, and it really did feel like it was going to be hard for them to reinvent themselves after that.

does it make sense for a genre to have a new jersey? does britpop have a collective new jersey

or just regular jersey, I guess it woul dbe

maura otm and thanks for those in media res reviews, fascinating

Every huge artist has their "Isle of Jersey"...

arcade fire - reflektor

― i also enjoy in line skateing (spazzmatazz), Thursday, May 22, 2014 8:40 PM (four years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this turned out to be pretty otm

Britpop's new jersey

https://theweekendpollution.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/sultans-of-ping-wheres-me-jumper.jpeg

the albums are overstuffed and overlong. the songs are overstuffed and overlong. the production is overstuffed and exhausting.

i guess i don't think any of these are fair descriptions of 13, a record that i think is mostly them getting introvertedly weird, choral bloat of "tender" aside. it subverts the new jersey narrative in the same way the s/t does and in a way i think it kinda subverts itself

thinking the record is "half filler" is immaterial in its new jersey status to me

i was going to suggestion be here now as the obvious britpop new jersey but six years ago in this very thread it seemed to loosen into its own definition (which i agree with, thx doc casino)

A Be Here Now is probably its own shorthand already, right? For a massively anticipated album that just disappoints everyone from the word go, incredibly negative critical consensus, sense that success has gone to the band's heads. Fairweather Johnsons just miss the moment and fade into the night, Be Here Nows suck and everybody knows it.

lol actually, apologies to dog latin, i think *i'm* getting to deep into notions of quality influencing the new jersey-ness of a record, just from the other end. i also live in the us so i never experienced "tender" as a huge hit

fwiw i was not among those submitting 13, or any blur album, for NJ status.

xp Blur is a bad choice. They don't have a New Jersey. 13 is a perfect album btw.

xp Rihanna doesn't have a New Jersey and I will lose my shit if anyone on here calls Anti a New Jersey.

Part of this discussion that I wish newer posters would get is that the aesthetic merit of the New Jersey contender is irrelevant.

fwiw i was not among those submitting 13, or any blur album, for NJ status.

― got the scuba tube blowin' like a snork (Doctor Casino), Thursday, August 30, 2018 8:39 AM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

oh yeah i totally know, i was just trying to square the very otm assessment you made with dog latin's claim

13 was huge and hyped (not in the least because of the much-reported 'break up with Justine Frischmann'-angle), Tender was also huge. It's not a NJ though, nor a career killer like Fairweather Johnson.

And indeed, aesthetic merit doesn't matter.

to be fair a very slight amount of quality decline is implied in the title of this thread ("feels a bit hollow")

i agree that aesthetic merit is irrelevant to an album's qualifications NJ status - see all the DANGEROUS stans who voted for it in the poll. but the way that the factors that generate a NJ interface with aesthetics is interesting imho!

not all bloated indulgent albums are NJs, but nearly every NJ is bloated and indulgent, and once something DOES qualify as a NJ, it can be *more or less of one* based on bloat and indulgence, because "new jersey is a feeling."

i think "bad" is MJ's new jersey

shd be "mostly irrelevant" in my first line there - yes. "feels a bit hollow" matters, tho this can be located as much in the artist's star-text as in the music. what's key is to not treat this as *central* or you end up with just "album where they faltered creatively." combine that with not thinking much about "huge" and "event" and you end up with the worst kind of NJ newbie submission, "first album i didn't like as much by some act that sold 50,000 copies at their peak."

"dangerous" won the poll!

or no wait it was UYI. but dangerous was #2.

WHO IS IT

(breaks a glass)

I agree MJ’s NJ is Bad. But it’s still loved, influential and respected, isn’t it ?

That said, Dangerous too...

Blur's New Jersey is clearly The Great Escape fwiw.

a new jersey has to be an album of comparable success to its predecessor, but it can't be followed by an album of equal or greater success, because then it doesn't signal a career decline. check the stats on the great escape and blur versus new jersey and keep the faith. blur don't have one.

nah i think a NJ is kind of pored-over, overthought... The Great Escape seems opposite of that. I think Blur were focused more on the pub and pills during that recording xp

If Damon Albarn has a New Jersey, it's probably that The Good The Bad And The Queen album or maybe the 2nd Gorillaz album.