It's confusing by design, I think. I've seen quite a few people on Twitter who think he's apologizing for sleeping with consenting fans on the road and don't understand what the big deal is. That part of the apology is conversational catnip, but it's also beyond the scope of what he's been accused of and is apologizing for. It just blurs things and changes the conversation.
― Evan R, Tuesday, 21 November 2017 16:46 (six years ago) link
I'm inclined to agree with you Evan. It's either one of two things, what simon said, that it's just an overly cautious attempt to get ahead of the game of something possibly small, or it's intentionally obfuscating something much bigger. I feel like the latter comes across as more likely given how vague the apology is.
― husked, tonal wails (irrational), Tuesday, 21 November 2017 17:07 (six years ago) link
unfortunately from what i've heard (which is... just whispers at the moment, so i'm not in a position to clarify beyond this extremely vague post, but hopefully it can kinda... prepare people for what's going to happen next) this isn't good
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Tuesday, 21 November 2017 21:08 (six years ago) link
fucking hell
― Simon H., Tuesday, 21 November 2017 21:12 (six years ago) link
Nobody's perfect and most publications are trying to cover this stuff sensitively, but I suspect music media is going to have to have a conversation with itself about how it's covered this story. Letting an abuser define the narrative is bad precedent—it makes the story not about the abuse, but about the abuser's soul-searching journey— and I suspect the widespread adoption of his "sexual coercion" terminology is going to look very embarrassing soon.
It's a tricky story to report, especially with what's on the record right now, but it's not the press's job to do P.R. for an abuser.
― Evan R, Tuesday, 21 November 2017 21:54 (six years ago) link
eh in this case i don’t think the press had much choice
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Tuesday, 21 November 2017 22:22 (six years ago) link
I mean, this headline has been chilling on the front page of Pitchfork all afternoon: Pinegrove Cancel Tour After Accusation of Sexual Coercion Against Frontman Evan Stephens Hall
doesn't look great for him either way
― voodoo chili, Tuesday, 21 November 2017 22:30 (six years ago) link
if i said "i just hope this doesn't bury the next Pinegrove album forever" is that "haha funny/true" or HEY MAN NOT FUNNY! in this delicate time on the internet
― alpine static, Tuesday, 21 November 2017 22:32 (six years ago) link
imo you should keep that shit to yourself
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Tuesday, 21 November 2017 22:36 (six years ago) link
xxp Lots of headlines frame the story around his apology, letting him get ahead of the narrative. EW's, for instance: "Pinegrove cancels tour after 'sexual coercion' accusation: 'I am so sorry,' singer says"
And this A.V. Club report is... just about as bad as it could be. This lead gushes with appreciation about him coming clean "as soon as they were brought to his attention," and frames the narrative around him coming to terms with what he did:
As more and more people get called out for inappropriate abusive behavior in their past, Pinegrove frontman Evan Stephens Hall has decided to issue a response to allegations of misconduct against him as soon as they were brought to his attention rather than wait until the backlash had begun to swell. In a post on the band’s Facebook page, Hall said that he has been accused of sexual coercion, saying that he now realizes he abused his power as a member of the band by partaking in “flirtatious” and “intimate” encounters with fans. “I’ve reached the conclusion now that that’s not ever appropriate,” Hall writes, “even if they initiate it. There will always be an unfair power dynamic at play in these situations and it’s not ok for me to ignore that.”
I get that these are weird circumstances, but we gotta do better than that.
― Evan R, Tuesday, 21 November 2017 22:38 (six years ago) link
evan literally the only information available is the apology
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Tuesday, 21 November 2017 22:41 (six years ago) link
the av club report sucks, agreed
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Tuesday, 21 November 2017 22:42 (six years ago) link
xxp fair enough, thx
― alpine static, Tuesday, 21 November 2017 22:45 (six years ago) link
new Glassjaw out next week. I like the single, sort of Deftonesy in the verse/chorus dynamic
― Simon H., Friday, 24 November 2017 15:11 (six years ago) link
i’ve never really liked glassjaw so i’m curious
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Friday, 24 November 2017 16:14 (six years ago) link
tbh same, Worship and Tribute sounds cool but never did much for me in terms of the actual content
― Simon H., Friday, 24 November 2017 16:15 (six years ago) link
that new song sounds extremely cool though
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Friday, 24 November 2017 16:26 (six years ago) link
It's more post-hardcore than emo but man this Flagland record is the craziest rock record I've heard in a long time, a big freewheeling shoestring opus. it seems beamed in from 2002 in the best way possible
https://flagland.bandcamp.com/album/two-brothers-and-a-ghost
― Simon H., Monday, 27 November 2017 14:38 (six years ago) link
I was listening to that just now! It was sounding kinda good - I think I turned it off during track 2 to check a few other things out, but you say it's worth hearing straight through?
― imago, Monday, 27 November 2017 14:40 (six years ago) link
I'm still only halfway through cause it's so fucking long - the vocalist is the weakpoint (as usual) but I'm digging the dynamism
― Simon H., Monday, 27 November 2017 14:52 (six years ago) link
not one but four literary quotes on the bandcamp page
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Monday, 27 November 2017 15:40 (six years ago) link
this record sure is like, 1/5 terrible and 4/5ths good
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Monday, 27 November 2017 15:50 (six years ago) link
lmao yes that's about right. if they get an actual producer for the next one I could see them making a real killer
― Simon H., Monday, 27 November 2017 15:54 (six years ago) link
I just get excited when bands get overambitious, it seems like everyone's making tidy, safe little records these days
― Simon H., Monday, 27 November 2017 15:56 (six years ago) link
Seconding the People Like You recommendation above. Sort of like American Football if vocals were provided by The Anniversary.
https://peoplelikeyoumusic.bandcamp.com/album/verse
― Mercer Finn, Monday, 27 November 2017 16:45 (six years ago) link
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/12/04/young-and-dumb-inside
― Chocolate-covered gummy bears? Not ruling those lil' guys out. (ulysses), Wednesday, 29 November 2017 16:56 (six years ago) link
^^ i loved that
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Wednesday, 29 November 2017 17:02 (six years ago) link
ok so i've heard the glassjaw (it's really weird) and now i can do this:
top emo/pop-punk albums 2017:
jeremy enigk: ghostsmanchester orchestra: a black mile to the surfacecirca survive: the amuletrainer maria: s/tparamore: after laughterglassjaw: material controlcaracara: summer megalithcreeper: eternity, in your armsracquet club: racquet clubfront bottoms: going greyoliver houston: whatever workssmidley: smidleysmith street band: more scared of you than you are of meiron chic: you can't stay hereworriers: survival pop sorority noise: you're not as ____ as you think
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Thursday, 30 November 2017 19:35 (six years ago) link
Yeah I think you got most of the really good ones there. Not a huge emo year for me personally, and uh certain things dampened my enthusiasm
― Simon H., Thursday, 30 November 2017 19:54 (six years ago) link
teotfw?
― Chocolate-covered gummy bears? Not ruling those lil' guys out. (ulysses), Thursday, 30 November 2017 21:03 (six years ago) link
more like bnsf
― Mordy, Thursday, 30 November 2017 21:05 (six years ago) link
i don't really feel like having a conversation about it but basically a) it feels wrong to leave my favorite album off the list for non-musical reasons and b) hills seem like uncomfortable places to die so i'm trying to avoid that
― Mordy, Thursday, 30 November 2017 21:06 (six years ago) link
mileages vary for all sorts of reasons but tbh I haven't been able to listen to Science Fiction since the details came out. And I tried.
― Simon H., Thursday, 30 November 2017 21:10 (six years ago) link
i've def felt a little weird relistening to certain songs from deja entendu but the new one is still great imo but i know i'm unusual in my tolerance for consuming ethically questionable media. i don't judge anyone who has come to a different perspective for sure. i'm a little annoyed bc i feel like i'm going to end up censoring myself when balloting comes around but idk there are much worse problems in the world i can live w/ this one.
― Mordy, Thursday, 30 November 2017 21:12 (six years ago) link
that’s cool. afaic after reading the accounts of the women involved i can’t fucking listen to it
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Thursday, 30 November 2017 21:20 (six years ago) link
I love your list. The few I haven't heard, I must check out.
paramore,creeper,front bottoms, oliver houston, smith street band, iron chic, worriers, sorority noise would all make my list.
― husked, tonal wails (irrational), Thursday, 30 November 2017 21:25 (six years ago) link
Some days that Caracara LP is my favorite rock album of the year.
That Sorority Noise album is absolutely mammoth. And Rainer Maria... holy shit; the wow factor never went away with that one. Side A is flawless.
Would also add the Sinai Vessel album and Tall Friend and Club Night EPs to the pile. It's been a pretty sensational year, I think.
― Evan R, Thursday, 30 November 2017 21:29 (six years ago) link
Have we talked about the katie Ellen record here? Because that would probably be on my list
― husked, tonal wails (irrational), Thursday, 30 November 2017 21:52 (six years ago) link
no Oso Oso, Brad?
― alpine static, Thursday, 30 November 2017 22:19 (six years ago) link
i never actually managed to listen to that album!
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Thursday, 30 November 2017 22:37 (six years ago) link
― Mordy, Thursday, November 30, 2017 9:12 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Feeling this post. I'm annoyed too, not even with self-censorship, but with the fact that I got cheated. The new Brand New album was actually my first Brand New album: the emo-poll on here renewed my interest in the genre, and this came along, and I loved it to bits. Yada yada couple of months later and it's in tatters, because this fuckhead couldn't control himself.
Still think it's a great album, but no love lost in leaving it off the ballot. Not listened to it since I heard the news, but I'll be honest: it did feel like a rough and sudden break-up with something I held dear for a while. But as you say: there are bigger problems.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Thursday, 30 November 2017 22:53 (six years ago) link
I loved the Katie Ellen record, simple but potent
― Simon H., Thursday, 30 November 2017 23:17 (six years ago) link
yeah the Katie Ellen record is a total charmer
― Evan R, Friday, 1 December 2017 01:27 (six years ago) link
i thought chumped was only ok and i like katie ellen even less but i’m still sorta thrilled that record is resonating with ppl
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Friday, 1 December 2017 03:04 (six years ago) link
just nice to see friends of friends making good
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Friday, 1 December 2017 03:06 (six years ago) link
are earlier sorority noise albums good? i listened to a bit of one and it seemed to be lacking, something (the humour? the killer arrangements? his delivery was a little less dry maybe) that make 'you're not as _____ as you think' so good to me
― flopson, Friday, 1 December 2017 06:51 (six years ago) link
new one is the first one that made me care about them at all
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Friday, 1 December 2017 06:54 (six years ago) link
there's a new Tiny Moving Parts single - pretty good! album's out in May
― Simon H., Friday, 1 December 2017 11:49 (six years ago) link
Brad, where would you have placed Br@nd N3w in your list if you had included it?
― ArchCarrier, Friday, 1 December 2017 12:28 (six years ago) link
eh i’d rather not say, though i think it’s obvious from how enthusiastic i was about it when it came out
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Friday, 1 December 2017 13:29 (six years ago) link