Dirty Projectors

god, I wish I could understand the sort of mindset that allows one to write things like "we built Brooklyn together but now you made it all waterfronts" without a thousand inner critics screaming "NO, WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING, WHY ARE YOU CONFLATING YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH THE GENTRIFICATION OF WILLIAMSBURG, IDK HOW THAT THOUGHT EVEN EMANATED FROM YOUR CONSCIOUS OR SUBCONSCIOUS BRAIN BUT BUDDY, IT STOPS HERE."

perhaps it's better not to have that kind of mindset! (that certainly is the mainstream viewpoint; god knows that said inner critics tend not to shut up about *anything*, legit or not.) but at least it would prevent such lyrics from making it out of the brain

is his ex a property developer

(I paraphrased, but only slightly)

idk I think a lot of this stuff that scans as mortifyingly cringey and verboten to us, for most in its target demo it will go down smooth as a knowing, hip, smart, self-aware, etc as ilxors felt abt 'losing my edge' in 2001

Fantastic takedown on SJ, Katherine.

I'm with fgti in that I legit loved most of DP's previous work. The blatant misogyny on this is too much though, for me. I won't be bothering with the whole record.

oh sure, admittedly I am not the target demographic for this. (target*ed* demographic, maybe)

I can't get over that instagram chat with fleet foxes guy - maybe less *bad* than this ex-shaming but just as repellent

i didn't think it was that bad, read like something plaxico and Lamp wld've written in 2010

lmao

boom

i'm not really sure who the target demo for this stuff is tbh

GAPDY veterans

passionate millennial males

There's a part of me that wonders if maybe it was a reasonably civil breakup and his brain is going "hmmm, I have to write lyrics for an album, that's an experience that humans have emotions about, let me write about this experience in an emotional way so that the humans will like it" and then went way too far, and in misguided directions.

Obviously I'm projecting here, but thinking of people I know who are long on music theory and short on empathy.

i'm not really sure who the target demo for this stuff is tbh

That's what confounds me about this. The target demo is clear—the same educated, plugged-in, open-minded, privileged indie rock listeners with all the stereotypes that entails (NPR, Williamsburg, #indiesowhite, etc). But that's also the demographic most likely to be offended by this content. And that's even before you take in the fact that he's badmouthing a former bandmate who remains enormously popular with fans of the band.

xp I could see that - convenient narrative, the fact that him and Coffman were on speaking terms until a year ago (presumably when he started getting deep into writing & recording this record), and the fact that he has a new girlfriend and doesn't seem all that sad, it's all a pose (dirty sweater, unkempt beard). i took a look at his twitter and he said something on valentine's day about "dismantling co-dependency!" uhhh ok guy

uh am i missing something these lyrics just seem douchey, psuedy, and kinda misogynist - which is really pretty commonplace in music, especially of the confessional, earnest variety.

i didn't think it was that bad, read like something plaxico and Lamp wld've written in 2010

― flopson, Thursday, February 23, 2017 1:32 PM (thirty-one minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permali

i didn't think it was bad at all either and i think most of the negative reaction to the new record (aside from fgti who seems to have deigned to engage with the music) is mostly half-baked virtue signaling ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

he is maroning

A guy like Mark Kozelek, who long ago aged out of being cool, can kinda get off on trolling his audience. Kevin Barnes sometimes gets a kick out of it too (he once talked to me about creating Georgie Fruit b/c he was jealous of rappers and how they could get away with saying nearly anything they wanted, no matter how improper). But Longstreth always seemed like a guy deeply invested in scene politics and attuned to the sensitivities of his audience before this.

ops to myself - like bruce springsteen has multiple songs were he needlessly points out that the female subject of the song isn't that good-looking

xps even fu internet browser with autocorrect

the specificity of the lyrics on this record compound the nastiness - bowery ballroom, stillness is the move, clothing line/naomi klein, truth/fame, we both cheated on our exes, etc.

there is a place that we both know
it lives in our hearts, we built it together

He is talking about panera bread here

Koz would have stated it plainly

There's a part of me that wonders if maybe it was a reasonably civil breakup and his brain is going "hmmm, I have to write lyrics for an album, that's an experience that humans have emotions about, let me write about this experience in an emotional way so that the humans will like it" and then went way too far, and in misguided directions.

Obviously I'm projecting here, but thinking of people I know who are long on music theory and short on empathy.

― change display name (Jordan), Thursday, February 23, 2017 2:03 PM (fourteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this makes a lot of sense to me.

also i think the specificity could have worked if there was an ounce of humor to any of this, though we're talking about a guy who crafted an entire hook around the line "we drank a two-liter of orange crush" and didn't even make that seem funny.

iirc most of the lyrics on bitte were just imgaistic non sequitir. do irc? if so, idk why he switched tack

prob telling that my favorite dp album has black flag lyrics

xp yeah the lyrics on Bitte Orca and iirc SLM are not personal at all

even more cynically, maybe some coked out PR dude came up with the idea to have Longstreth and Coffman release solo albums in the same year about their breakup, leading to a full Dirty Projectors reunion in 2018. GREAT FOR THE BRAND!

Longstreth always seemed like a guy deeply invested in scene politics and attuned to the sensitivities of his audience before this.

i don't know him but he doesn't seem like he's particularly attuned to the sensitivities of anything

There's a part of me that wonders if maybe it was a reasonably civil breakup and his brain is going "hmmm, I have to write lyrics for an album, that's an experience that humans have emotions about, let me write about this experience in an emotional way so that the humans will like it" and then went way too far, and in misguided directions.

Obviously I'm projecting here, but thinking of people I know who are long on music theory and short on empathy.

― change display name (Jordan), Thursday, February 23, 2017 2:03 PM (fourteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this seems v plausible, and would feed into the line that DL is proffering about the lyrics not being "autobiographical" when they plainly are - like he's trying to intellectualise this kinda messy work.

some coked out PR dude

I knew Heathcliff Berru would weasel his way back into the industry somehow.

^ ew times a zillion, fp and fuck off

Isn't that Dave Longstreth's backing vocals on Amber Coffman's "All To Myself" ?

Yeah, and he cowrote the track as well.

I listened to the album on headphones today, and musically it's great and inventive. Unlike fgti I think there's plenty that engages with the music of today, much more than on most indie-albums. With it's bass-triplets working against a stuttering 4/4 drumbeat, Work Together is basically a juke tune (and I'd guess the mellotron sounds is stolen from Islam Chipsy). Ascent Through Clouds keeps tumbling into a sorta german schaffel techno groove complete with cut up vocals, while Up In Hudson has that drum outro as well. Most of all it's an r'n'b album, with Death Spiral being a straight up Timbaland homage, and the whole thing playing a bit like Dawn's last few albums. Both Keep Your Name and Winner Takes Nothing has rap breaks, with Winner Takes Nothing trying to do the Migos triplet flow.

And if that sounds unbearably embarrassing, well ok, then this is not for you. But it's not more imperialistic or coopting than Vampire Weekend or Paul Simon or Animal Collective. I get why Dave would long for the days of 2009, because this was basically what indie tried to do back then, to plow through different sounds and incorporate them into their own visions. And it collapsed, mostly because none of GADPY managed to really follow up on their 2009 albums with something equally succesful. So it's sorta an oldfashioned way of making music, but I loved it back then, and I like it now.

But then there's the lyrics... yeah... It's not as if it becomes redeemed, but I See You does try. He ends with saying that 'the projection is fading away / and in it's place / I see you' which, keeping in mind the band was called Dirty Projectors, could sorta mean that he tried to turn Amber into something she was not, and now will let her be herself. But... that's not enough...

Vampire Weekend and Paul Simon.

Really.

Sigh

I think this is good:

It always hurts, and sometimes turning that hurt into a meaningful piece of art is a balm. But other times, trying to convert your pain into something that will publicly redeem you comes across just as selfishly as it sounds.

http://uproxx.com/music/dirty-projectors-break-up-album/4/

Occurred to me today that the closest analogue to this record is Robin Thicke's Paula, the record he made after "Blurred Lines" and his wife left him for cheating and being drunk and zonked out on Vicodin.

Yeah, because that's the only breakup record ever made.

Dude, there's a difference btwn Blood on the Tracks, Sea Change, Vulnicura, and For Emma Forever Ago etc. and this DP record. They're not grounded in specific details or about public people. Good breakup albums take a common and uninteresting personal experience and make it universal/abstract. "You're Gonna Make Me Lonesome When You Go" vs. "You'd sell out the waterfront for condos" and "what I want from art is truth / what you want is fame" etc etc

Good breakup albums are spiritual salve. There's no room for anyone but Longstreth here.

Blood on the Tracks had Idiot Wind on it too

I'm really really into that Uproxx review

There's no room for anyone but Longstreth here.

― flappy bird, 24. februar 2017 23:30 (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah, that's pretty much the point of the last song on the album, I See You, as well. That he got lost in 'the projection' and everyone else got crowded out, including Amber.

And there's also a pretty big difference between this breakup and Thicke 'cheating and being drunk and zonked out on Vicodin.' There's nothing on Dirty Projectors as accusatory as comparing Longstreth to what Thicke did. Cool, you don't like it, but if your point is that Longstreth is being a dick, try not to be as big a dick yourself.

I like the uproxx review as well, but think this part is confused:

Instead of finding resonance in these lines, I’m reminded of the times when I valued the power of my own pain over the way weaponizing it might create more pain in others.

That is finding resonance in the lines. They resonate against the shitty parts of her own life. So it's shitty resonance, but it's still resonance.

portajohn reverb

keep counting on portajohn reverb
OK, open your eyes

There are some major failings on this album, and I get if people just won't bother, but most of the songs are without hate (really, the shitty lines are on Keep Your Name, Up In Hudson (although it doesn't say that they cheat on their spouses, that's a misreading) and Winner Takes Nothing) and there's a bunch of good songs with interesting musical ideas. It's not as hateful as Robin Thicke, heck, it's not even as hateful as Like a Rolling Stone. And the problem isn't that it's 'grounded in specific details or about public people', if we didn't like that Lemonade wouldn't have been the best album of 2016. It's tainted with misogynism, and it fails as a narrative, but it's a fine record. Comparing it to Robin Thicke, or saying that it can't resonate, is absurdly overblown.