That reddit thread was interesting. There are a handful of sorta peers that have a lot in common with him, musically: Jon Brion, Jason Falkner, Brendan Benson, all Beatles-obsessed guys who are highly adept at arrangements and also playing every instrument. But obviously Smith's deep melancholy and modesty sets him apart; he could have gone smarty-pants power-pop but obviously didn't dig that scene.
I want to say the first time I heard him was maybe the "Needle in the Hay" 7" back in ... 1995? It's a great song, but not really representative, especially in its primitiveness. "Either/Or" was the album that really clicked with me, and I got to see lots of him live, solo and with bands (typically backed/with Quasi). We crossed paths once or twice in various contexts; he was super shy. I noticed the biggest change after the Oscar stuff, which seems to be when things started falling apart. HIs shows started attracting proto-bros, people there to be seen overshadowing the rest of the enraptured crowd. But even though he had tons of fans he's still seems just obscure enough that people still discover him the way I and many discovered stuff like Big Star, or Nick Drake or whomever, even Joy Division or Eno or VU or bands not nearly as popular as one might surmise, a word of mouth thing, which keeps his catalog pretty special.
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 8 January 2017 17:00 (seven years ago) link
The outro of "Everybody Has It" felt very familiar, and I just realized he does the same thing at the end of "Alameda" where the fade-out is written into the song, cooling the dynamics with instruments casually stepping out of the arrangement.
― billstevejim, Sunday, 8 January 2017 22:47 (seven years ago) link
When I hear Ballad of Big Nothing I always think of Janet Weiss and how she'd cry every time they played it
― rip van wanko, Monday, 9 January 2017 02:11 (seven years ago) link
"Big Nothing" is the first song of his I loved, it's got my voteit reminds me of Big Star and is possibly as good
― bunny slopes, Monday, 9 January 2017 06:58 (seven years ago) link
there are several great songs on this, the whole album is very good. somehow i find the music not really depressive but the lyrics definitely forebode the tragic course of events. i go for alameda, it is one of those songs that makes me want to shout "shut up and listen" to people talking when it comes out of a loudspeaker.
― it's the distortion, stupid! (alex in mainhattan), Monday, 9 January 2017 17:18 (seven years ago) link
As much as I love his music, I hardly ever listen to any of his albums all the way through. I'll either listen to a live recording or a handful of songs at a time. The records have a numbing effect on me, so much so that it took me years to notice certain songs that I glazed over, like King's Crossing, Southern Belle, Coming Up Roses, I Better Be Quiet Now, Easy Way Out... it's sweet to still be discovering masterpieces by this guy 3 years after becoming a fan...
and now Punch and Judy! never really noticed this song before this thread, but now of course it's been stuck in my head the past couple days.
― flappy bird, Monday, 9 January 2017 18:14 (seven years ago) link
xo is really depressing compared to this one
― Lennon, Elvis, Hendrix etc (dog latin), Monday, 9 January 2017 23:17 (seven years ago) link
not much love for Speed Trials? that song draws upon some of this guy's best strengths for me: the ability to captivate the listener through simplicity, quiet tension & subtle deflections in pace & mood.
― charlie h, Tuesday, 10 January 2017 01:35 (seven years ago) link
It ended up voting for Speed Trials. It's the scene-setter. And it has the chorus over two different chord sequences which is just great. And the drums.
― in twelve parts (lamonti), Tuesday, 10 January 2017 18:13 (seven years ago) link
*I
Smith has some great album openers, including this one. It's just not my favourite
― Rock Wokeman (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 10 January 2017 18:30 (seven years ago) link
From a Basement on the Hill is his crowning achievement imo, and even in its unfinished state, it towers over everything else he did. the most moving album about drug abuse and depression I've ever heard. anyone else prefer it?
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 11 January 2017 03:49 (seven years ago) link
I'm confident that yours is a minority opinion, but there's still some good stuff on there, for sure.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 11 January 2017 04:01 (seven years ago) link
Even though he was consistently a disaster live during the period it was recorded, the playing and arrangements and compositions on Basement are incredible, an enormous leap forward from Figure 8, which feels phoned in and uninspired in comparison (save for the acoustic based tracks - Easy Way Out, I Better Be Quiet Now, Happiness, Somebody That I Used to Know)... even the playing & singing in this video taken during the depths of his addiction is stunning:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5SFyBKybJM
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 11 January 2017 04:06 (seven years ago) link
tho he does fuck up and abandon the ending
i don't think basement is an enormous leap forward from figure 8, they very much exist in the same sound world
― who is extremely unqualified to review this pop album (BradNelson), Wednesday, 11 January 2017 04:54 (seven years ago) link
Hard to pin an unfinished album as his crowning achievement, but there's absolutely tons of great stuff from that era – though a lot of the songs had existed for years.
His live playing around 1999 – the Satyricon gig sticks out to me from boots – is absolutely fucking phenomenal.
― in twelve parts (lamonti), Wednesday, 11 January 2017 19:39 (seven years ago) link
the film's great isn't it? i was never a huge fan but i saw him in 98 and liked him plenty, this made me like him more. the atmosphere it creates around that whole lovely era where it's snowing and he's in Portland and he's in Heat Miser and just before he got too big. it puts some much better known rock docs to shame.
― piscesx, Wednesday, 11 January 2017 23:39 (seven years ago) link
i def play basement and this one the most.
― difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 11 January 2017 23:43 (seven years ago) link
Alameda.
it's weirdly comforting to see how so many people are affected in the same way by Elliott Smith - periods where you listen to nothing but his music, and then having to take an extended break afterwards because it was getting too much.
That was definitely the case for me, too - devoured his music at the start of major depression in my late teens, followed by nearly a decade of never listening to him at all. I've only started putting on his records again in the past couple of years or so - it's easier to appreciate his songcraft now, without thinking or feeling as much as I did before.
― Roz, Thursday, 12 January 2017 06:25 (seven years ago) link
I would love DreamWorks (is that still a label?) to do a New Moon type set of his material from XO to Basement. Seems like there's plenty of great unreleased material from that era. Supposedly an entire album recorded with Jon Brion as well. Not sure if he ever cut vocals for it.
― DavidLeeRoth, Thursday, 12 January 2017 15:00 (seven years ago) link
some of the songs he recorded with Brion ended up on Basement, iirc they were "Twilight," "A Passing Feeling," and "A Fond Farewell." Another one from those sessions, "True Love," ended up on the Heaven Adores You soundtrack last year.
― flappy bird, Thursday, 12 January 2017 18:07 (seven years ago) link
Are the versions of those tunes from the Brion sessions or re-recordings of the same tunes? Lots of great b-sides from his DreamWorks days too.
― DavidLeeRoth, Thursday, 12 January 2017 19:00 (seven years ago) link
they're recordings from the Brion sessions. "Twilight" and "A Passing Feeling" were completed with Brion, while the basic tracking for "A Fond Farewell" was used, with vocals and overdubs added later on. It's wild how long the recording sessions for Basement were spread out- "Memory Lane" was recorded in October 2003, and the vocals for "King's Crossing" were recorded a week before he died.
― flappy bird, Thursday, 12 January 2017 19:21 (seven years ago) link
Elliott died in October of 2003. I think sessions started with Brion in 2001.
― DavidLeeRoth, Thursday, 12 January 2017 20:08 (seven years ago) link
i know, i was talking about how all the different sessions - with McConnell and Fritz and Brion - were spread out over such a long period of time, up until the weeks before he died.
― flappy bird, Thursday, 12 January 2017 20:15 (seven years ago) link
O gotcha. It's a fascinating album I only wish we could hear it as he had intended. Basement is Elliott's White Album.
― DavidLeeRoth, Thursday, 12 January 2017 20:20 (seven years ago) link
this is a breakdown of where/when everything was recorded:
1. Coast to Coast - 2002, McConnell2. Let's Get Lost - Summer 2003, Fritz3. Pretty (Ugly Before) - May 2000, self-produced4. Don't Go Down - 2001, McConnell5. Strung Out Again - 2001, McConnell6. A Fond Farewell - early 2001 & 2002, Brion/McConnell7. King's Crossing - 2003, Fritz8. Ostrich & Chirping - 2001, McConnell (Smith had nothing to do with this)9. Twilight - early 2001, Brion10. A Passing Feeling - early 2001, Brion11. The Last Hour - 1996, Crane12. Shooting Star 2001, McConnell13. Memory Lane - 2003, Fritz14. Little One - 2001, McConnell15. A Distorted Reality Is Now a Necessity to Be Free - 2003, Fritz
― flappy bird, Thursday, 12 January 2017 20:25 (seven years ago) link
xp yeah it's a drag, I'm glad it's something like 70% complete at least. reading the visions and ideas McConnell and ES had for it is a real drag, would've been great...
it also sucks that McConnell wasn't consulted after Smith's death when the album was being sequenced & mixed, probably because they did drugs together while they were recording (there's a bit in the book Elliott Smith and the Big Nothing where McConnell talks about mixing Shooting Star totally coked out).
― flappy bird, Thursday, 12 January 2017 20:32 (seven years ago) link
Flappy, did you just write up that recording list from memory? If so, I salute you my friend.
New Moon is a record I revisit so so often. Feel it's overlooked a bit, so many great songs on there.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Thursday, 12 January 2017 20:34 (seven years ago) link
thanks! p much from memory, had to double check Don't Go Down. this is a great source btw for sessions histories: http://www.sweetaddy.com
― flappy bird, Thursday, 12 January 2017 20:40 (seven years ago) link
That is a great source, yes (but the compliment still stands)
― Le Bateau Ivre, Thursday, 12 January 2017 20:43 (seven years ago) link
Agree that someone (Dreamworks?) could do an excellent compilation of all the various bits and pieces worked into the FABOTH sessions - stuff like Stickman, True Love, See You In Heaven, O So Slow, Assassin, Let's Turn The Record Over, Abused ... piles of stuff still around but unofficial.
― in twelve parts (lamonti), Friday, 13 January 2017 17:24 (seven years ago) link
the people that made the Heaven Adores You movie had a real opportunity to do something like that, and imo the soundtrack was a serious letdown. if they had access and permission to release "True Love," which is from the Dreamworks years/Brion sessions, why did they pad the rest of the thing with songs taken straight off of already released albums? "LA," "Everything Means Nothing to Me," "Happiness," and "Son of Sam" are all already widely available on his records. And I hate that "The Last Hour" is listed as an early/alternate version, but it's exactly the same take that was put on Basement. What a waste of space. I'm pretty sure the family put the kibosh on releasing "Abused" and "Suicide Machine" back when Basement was compiled, but I don't know why they didn't include stuff like "Everything's Okay" or "Stickman." Actually, "See You in Heaven" would've been perfect for a soundtrack, given that it's an instrumental.
I mean, this Dreamworks era compilation already exists as a multi-disc bootleg called Grand Mal, y'all should check it out if you haven't, it's all over YouTube...
― flappy bird, Friday, 13 January 2017 18:07 (seven years ago) link
Hey I know this is my 3rd post in this thread about the same song. Someone mentioned to me that "Everybody Has It" was possibly written by Tony Lash and not Elliott. Was wondering if anyone can confirm/deny.
― billstevejim, Tuesday, 17 January 2017 21:10 (seven years ago) link
tried looking up its BMI registry, came up blank. Did a little digging and it seems like Tony wrote it.
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 17 January 2017 21:20 (seven years ago) link
Wow, that band really did have compatible songwriters.
― billstevejim, Tuesday, 17 January 2017 21:33 (seven years ago) link
sweet interview with Larry Crane about building Jackpot! with Elliott, recording with him, and remastering/compiling the materials for the Either/Or reissue. https://www.fretboardjournal.com/podcast/podcast-132-recording-engineer-larry-crane-elliott-smith/
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 18 January 2017 18:25 (seven years ago) link
Just listened through XO for the first time in many years. To my shame had pretty much forgotten about the existence of Oh Well, Okay though I bet I could still play it on guitar if I sat down to it.
By comparison to either/or it seems much more like a collection of stuff he got recorded while he had access to a studio, an album in the truest sense of the word, whereas either/or feels very much like you're visiting the same psychic and sonic space on every track.
― in twelve parts (lamonti), Thursday, 19 January 2017 13:07 (seven years ago) link
Watched Heaven Adores You again and realised there's a version of King's Crossing from one of the Murder Of Crows tapes played in the background early in the film, which I missed the first time around. He kept that tune a loooong time.
― in twelve parts (lamonti), Friday, 20 January 2017 09:42 (seven years ago) link
Flappy you have a wealth of knowledge on all things Elliott and I completely agree with your opinion of the Heaven Adores You soundtrack. While some of Elliott's earliest recordings are interesting as a curiosity there's so many unreleased and just straight up obscure tunes in the archives that they didn't touch. I can only hope that DreamWorks said ok to a track or two, but are waiting to do reissue's of XO and Figure 8 or just compiling a New Moon type collection of their own.
― DavidLeeRoth, Friday, 20 January 2017 13:37 (seven years ago) link
Hey flaps do you know anything about the song True Love, like when it was written and recorded?
This song finally jumped out at me today, and wow it's fantastic. Both lyrics and arrangement. This has happened separately with what, literally almost 100 songs now since his death, and that's not including FABOTH and New Moon! It's just mindblowing. This guy will always be my favorite.
― rip van wanko, Wednesday, 25 January 2017 18:14 (seven years ago) link
"true love is a rose behind glass" this guy and his drug referenceshttp://i.imgur.com/jDhb7Pz.jpg
― rip van wanko, Wednesday, 25 January 2017 18:22 (seven years ago) link
True Love was recorded and completed with Jon Brion in early 2001. Elliott showed up with the song on a two-inch reel the night he got to Dave McConnell's studio, great anecdote here from the p4k oral history:
When he showed up, it was around 2 a.m., and he was in two cars; his girlfriend [Valerie Deerin] was driving one car and he was driving the other car, and both cars were full of all of his belongings. I mean everything from his apartment. I was thinking he was gonna show up with a suitcase and a backpack and a couple of guitars, but it was like five guitars, a giant keyboard, amps, and then five suitcases of clothes. He had toys, books, you name it. And then he had medication, and various other things.He also brought all his his two-inch reels that he was working on at Jon’s house. So we drank a couple of beers and I gave him the tour of the place and everything, and then he goes, "OK, there’s a song on here that I recorded by myself at Jon’s place that I want to keep, that I really like. Why don’t you just mix this song for me and I’ll be back in the morning.” Then he left. He was like, "I’ve got some errands to run right now, I’ve got some stuff I gotta do.” Remember, this is 2 a.m.—well no, by now it’s 4 a.m., because we had talked about my philosophy on recording and producing for two hours.So I put the reel on the machine and I started listening to the song, just by myself. And the first time I heard it, just pushing up the faders so I could hear the different instruments and his voice, I got the chills. It was one of the most haunting, beautiful songs I’d ever heard. It sounded nothing like the music I’d heard him do before. It sounded way more intricate, way more complex. It reminded me of Rachmaninoff, but with lyrics, with a story. Sitting in there alone, I almost had an out-of-body experience because I knew that I was about to work on one of the best things I’d ever worked on in my life. So I spent the next three or four hours mixing the song, which was called "True Love Is a Rose". It's a shame because that song never ended up on the album. He wanted it to be on the album, it was one of his favorites. So he finally got back, listened to my mix, loved it, and then he says, "Let’s start recording another song." At this point he probably hasn’t slept in two days.
He also brought all his his two-inch reels that he was working on at Jon’s house. So we drank a couple of beers and I gave him the tour of the place and everything, and then he goes, "OK, there’s a song on here that I recorded by myself at Jon’s place that I want to keep, that I really like. Why don’t you just mix this song for me and I’ll be back in the morning.” Then he left. He was like, "I’ve got some errands to run right now, I’ve got some stuff I gotta do.” Remember, this is 2 a.m.—well no, by now it’s 4 a.m., because we had talked about my philosophy on recording and producing for two hours.
So I put the reel on the machine and I started listening to the song, just by myself. And the first time I heard it, just pushing up the faders so I could hear the different instruments and his voice, I got the chills. It was one of the most haunting, beautiful songs I’d ever heard. It sounded nothing like the music I’d heard him do before. It sounded way more intricate, way more complex.
It reminded me of Rachmaninoff, but with lyrics, with a story. Sitting in there alone, I almost had an out-of-body experience because I knew that I was about to work on one of the best things I’d ever worked on in my life. So I spent the next three or four hours mixing the song, which was called "True Love Is a Rose". It's a shame because that song never ended up on the album. He wanted it to be on the album, it was one of his favorites.
So he finally got back, listened to my mix, loved it, and then he says, "Let’s start recording another song." At this point he probably hasn’t slept in two days.
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 25 January 2017 18:23 (seven years ago) link
imo "True Love is a Rose" is a much better title, I assume Elliott abbreviated it at some point before he died (sort of like how "A Fond Farewell" was called "A Dying Man in a Living Room" for a while).
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 25 January 2017 18:24 (seven years ago) link
I don't know why it wasn't included on FABOTH - couldn't have been the grim drug content, or that it was from the Brion sessions (Twilight was also completed with him). Amazing song, pretty remarkable that his abilities as a songwriter, lyricist, and recording artist accelerated along with his drug abuse, even if he was a fucking mess live. Dunno how he was able to record these incredibly complicated and intricate songs - all by himself, every instrument - while being a total butterfingers live, even in 2003 as he was getting better.
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 25 January 2017 18:28 (seven years ago) link
wow. thanks. gotta read that p4k thing, haven't got around to it yet.
― rip van wanko, Wednesday, 25 January 2017 18:29 (seven years ago) link
did this motherfucker write a GOOD song EVERY DAY? it's just stupid
― rip van wanko, Wednesday, 25 January 2017 18:33 (seven years ago) link
new old interview uploaded the other day, from 9/16/96
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYgspts1c6c
― flappy bird, Saturday, 28 January 2017 04:37 (seven years ago) link