Best Member Of The Velvet Underground

hahaha

a good point about the development of the "persona" and how that compensates for other weaknesses in a lot of ways... and you did make me kinda wanna listen to the "trifecta" but then I remember how much I hated "The Blue Mask" the one time I listened to it 15 years ago. And on the other hand how interesting you find Lou's persona is probably directly proportional to how much of a vested interest you have in the idea of "transgression" (for which I care less and less as I get older - not out of any kind of puritanical conservatism, but just because it seems juvenile and pointless)

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alfred have you ever heard cale's "heartbreak hotel" cover?

Like, do you care that there was a rockstar who thought it was important to mime shooting heroin onstage, play with queer stereotypes, and basically be as offensive as possible...? As virtues they seem small and petty and basically rooted in "I hate my parents' generation, they're so uptight maaaaan" silliness.

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I voted for Lou Reed, on the grounds that I like his records the best, that Victor Bockris' biography is the funniest rock read I've ever had, and that I don't buy that the lyrics are poor. See the following:

I don’t like opera and I don’t like ballet
And new wave french movies, they just drive me away
I guess I’m just dumb, ’cause I know that I ain’t smart
But deep down inside, I got a rock ’n’ roll heart
Yeah-yeah-yeah, deep down inside I got a rock ’n’ roll heart

Oh, rock ’n’ roll heart
Lookin’ for a good time
Just a rock ’n’ roll heart, roll heart, roll heart
Lookin’ for a good time

Also, John Cale, the only other contender, comes across like a rubbishy Welsh schoolteacher, and I can only think of one record of his I've enjoyed (Paris 1919).

The closest thing to transgressive Lou's been since 1982 was that song about sex with your parents (a good tune too!).

Although I'm probably alone I loved Ecstasy; it made my top ten that year, and it's a good example of muscular singer-songwriter rock informed by wisdom, a waning interest in transgression, and simply hanging on without acquiescing.

alfred have you ever heard cale's "heartbreak hotel" cover?

I have, and I love it -- my favorite Elvis cover!

To Lou's credit, Shakey, those early eighties records (are they the best made by a sixties "survivor" that decade?) are about realizing the limits of transgression, how it fucks up the people you love -- and never mind yourself.

well, as a counter-example re: lyrics, let's take the famous Sister Ray refrain "too busy suckin on my ding dong", a childish phrase obviously intended to titillate for its brazen "naughtiness" yet the line itself is clumsy and also rather inauthentic - I mean honestly who the fuck calls it a "ding dong". It seems intended to come across as shocking and explicit, but its really closer to something an 8-year-old would relish repeating (while having no idea what it means).

All the other elements of the song, however = perfect.

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while I enjoyed your graf Albert Legendary Hearts is still unlistenable garbage along with about half of New Sensations

those early eighties records (are they the best made by a sixties "survivor" that decade?)

hmmm a separate question I will have to ponder - my first inclination is to give that honor to Neil Young for Trans and Freedom

I think that's an opinion thing, though... I like that lyric too. xx-post.

honestly for most of Sister Ray I just wish Lou would shut the fuck up

"Bottoming Out" is OK though I'll give you that one

See, this question is: "Best member of the VU"

Not "Best musician/artist/whatever in the VU"

Constituent Part.

You could not call it the Velver Underground without Moe. (OK, I know they did!)

Lou wrote and sang as he did before, but it was not like the VU.
John wrote and sang much different than before.
Sterling retired pretty much from music.
Doug carried on as the Velvet Underground as the sole auteur.
I have forgotten my point in all this.

Neil Young was my only other candidate, and for those two records, although I'd take only half of Trans.

"Bottoming Out" is OK though I'll give you that one

and "Don't Talk To Me About Work," "The Last Shot," "Betrayed..." The arrangements are staid compared to its predecessor's, but they suit the songs, which are about compromise, failure, and demons that won't stay the fuck away.

I really like that song they did for the reunion tour: "Coyote". Maybe the only worthwhile thing to come out of that tour? At least from the recordings.

God "Don't Talk to Me About Work" is just horrible

"Betrayed" is all right, whole album's a big letdown after Blue Mask

We went to see them at the Town and Country, and it was "WOW IT'S THE VU! THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!" and they smiled at us...

When I heard the live album, I was all "oh. but... it was exactly like this! but it seemed wonderful at the time"

Lou did best with songs he obviously hadn;t played live for thirty years ("Guess I'm falling in love") rather than ones he'd done solo all that time ("Venus in Furs"). But Sterling was on the money with the solos on Rock and Roll and so on.

i'm voting for lou because the VU was obviously his best work. transformer and berlin come close, but you can't fuck with lou's VU songs.

however cale's solo career is definitely my favorite.

Shakey, you need to listen to "My House," the first minute of which is a textbook example to me of how a perfect band listens to its members, and "Waves of Fear" again.

I voted for Lou because this is ILM and I like to be contrarian.

John Cale was a disaster as the producer of Squeeze's first album. Their next three albums were all classics, but that debut was a disgrace, thanks to Cale's idea that they abandon all prewritten songs and only write new stuff in the studio. "Take Me I'm Yours" is the only good song on the album.

hey, i really liked "ecstasy" too! i always forget about that one. and "coney island baby". ok yeah there are some good solo lou albums. but none as good as "paris 1919" or "fear"!

it's Lou's baby, the whole deal, really

^^^ yep.

i voted for cale because i prefer the music on the first two albums and for whatever reasons I think he's responsible for it.. the 3rd album is great, but Loaded kind of sucks except for "I Found a Reason" and "Who Loves the Sun"........and "New Age," I guess.

Oh, and Nico doesn't really belong up there.

Fuck you, yes she does. Like it or not, she was in the damn band, people.

i voted for doug yule. why? partly because, as essential as lou's contribution was to the velvets, the demos on the box set give a disturbingly revealing picture of what a truly lou-dominated/lou-led velvets woulda sounded like. ira robbins called it "the wrong kind of revelatory," and lou is still deeply bitter and comically defensive about it 10 years later (see last year's mojo interview).

so why doug yule then? honestly, i'm not really sure. maybe just because when the yule-led lou-less velvets played nyc, bowie approached yule after a show and spoke at length to him, thinking he was talking to lou reed. either yule was charismatic enough in performance to fool bowie, or reed is so devoid of charisma as to be utterly nondescript as a performer. both are probably true.

how long before someone does a Best Memeber of Wham poll?

lol @ "memeber"

Lou, of course

Cale all the way

I thought this thread was about who was the best member of the Velvet Underground, not about what they did after the Velvet Underground?

No, that's the poll. The thread can be whatever.

Hmmmm, bit daft if because Lou made "The Raven" or had a mullet or played a funny looking guitar, people won't vote for him!

Lou Reed wrote "Sunday Morning", "Candy Says" and "Perfect Day". That alone makes him the one here.

Lou Reed co-wrote "Sunday Morning" with John Cale, to be precise

Hey Mr. Hongro! are you a fan of such melodic works by John cale like Paris 1919, A Child's Christmas in Wales and Andalucia?

yeah Geir given the distinctive melodies that populate Vintage Violence and Paris 1919 I'd say the "Sunday Morning" melody has Cale's thumbprints all over it - it would not surprise me to learn that Lou wrote the words and Cale set it to melody 'cause that's how it sounds, right down to the "watch out"s

Altho it does have the (pretty much) the same chord structure as "Femme Fatale"

So it was Lou after all!

(Except that 70% of ILXers don't think so)

http://images.quizilla.com/D/doombilly/1045168824_d_punxnico.jpg

Those results do make a lot of sense, though. But then, I never cared that much for Nico myself.

hahaha, for all the brave talk about sterling and moe & all the shit-talking about lou and john guess who are nos. 1 & 2 when it came time to actually VOTE?!?

;-)

yeah Geir given the distinctive melodies that populate Vintage Violence and Paris 1919 I'd say the "Sunday Morning" melody has Cale's thumbprints all over it - it would not surprise me to learn that Lou wrote the words and Cale set it to melody 'cause that's how it sounds, right down to the "watch out"s

-- J0hn D., Thursday, 31 May 2007 12:31 (Yesterday) Link

yeah it's so empathetic (melody-wise) that i've always heard someone else in there besides reed. i have no idea who else was involed though, in all honesty.

i voted cale only because i can't imagining living a life without those solo albums -- paris 1919, vintage violence, fear especially. that doesn't really address the question of the thread tho, which implicitly specifies the band and the years etc. all i know is that 'guess i'm falling in love (live)" from peel slowly and see is my favorite vu song of all-time, and i suspect reed wrote it.

oops, should have been i instead of b

see also:

cale pwning reed on 'temptation inside of your heart'
the violin on 'hey mister rain v. 1'!

How does "cale pwn reed on 'temptation inside of your heart'"? He doesn't seem to be saying too much on it

Sterl's on there too remember

r: somebody shut the door, heh

c: you can talk during this

r: well get outta here

c: wrong wrong wrong wrong

r: oh shut the door

c: *slap* ahhh!

r: it's only port or nutin i dn

c: b-b-b-b-b-b-b

r: (but she dint pay dollar a night (???))

c: woot-hoot-hooo!

r: ooooo motown, wooo!

c: it's not even five feet

r: you gonna look like marvin and (????)

r: oww we just gonna start it all over again someone get her outta here

r: electricity comes from other planets

c: ooooooo

c: it's not that bad a solo

c: four times, it's pretty together

r: you can't say that

c: yes i can

c: i can talk to myself this way

r: lock the door this time

Is all of that actually Cale tho?