Racial issues in music

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The whites: Kool Keith and Jimi Hendrix. That's all I can think of.

I cannot even begin to understand this.....

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 14:29 (nineteen years ago) link

Best not to, dear sir.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 14:38 (nineteen years ago) link

if whites really liked kool keith so much, he might have sold a few more records.

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 14:42 (nineteen years ago) link

Whites *do* like Kool Keith, just not as many as those who like Eminem.

― oops (Oops), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 16:09 (nineteen years ago) link

yeah i know but i'm trying to wrap my head around the concept of kool keith and jimi hendrix being the primary black artists liked by white folks...

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 17:19 (nineteen years ago) link

i know, prince is much more liked by white persons than kool keith. who really knows kool keith (outside of his dr octagon occupation)?

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 17:21 (nineteen years ago) link

how do you know that kool keith doesn't like Prince? ;)

Seriously, I dunno. I'm willing to bet that a higher percentage of KK fans are white than Prince fans.

― oops (Oops), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 17:34 (nineteen years ago) link

Fiona Apple's last album, for some reason I've never been able to fathom, did really well among black voters in the Pazz and Jop Poll. I think Bjork and Radiohead might have done something similar since.

― chuck, Wednesday, 25 August 2004 18:02 (nineteen years ago) link

i think the white stripes did well with black voters (apart from greg tate, who im sure has his reasons) in the pazz and jop poll too.

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 18:05 (nineteen years ago) link

RZA likes Bjork.

― oops (Oops), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 18:16 (nineteen years ago) link

oh, theres lots of white artists who black people like. this myth that there arent is silly.

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 18:20 (nineteen years ago) link

oh, theres lots of white artists who black people like. this myth that there arent is silly.

black people mostly just like Ritchie Blackmore's Rainbow....and I agree with them!

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 18:26 (nineteen years ago) link

what about black people listening to COLDPLAY?

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Wednesday, 25 August 2004 18:28 (nineteen years ago) link

we've dealt with coldplay upthread.

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 18:28 (nineteen years ago) link

Anyway, it's not always easy to figure out *why* black listeners gravitate toward certain white artists. Back when Hall and Oates, Devo, Queen, Kraftwerk, and Yellow Magic Orchestra were scoring hits on the r&b charts, that made complete sense to me, since their dance rhythms were a perfect match for the r&b hits of the time; Fiona Apple struck me as completely random. But maybe I'm missing something about her. (I mean, I guess she's similar to Alicia Keys or some dead-assed bore like that, but Alicia didn't even exist yet then, I don't think. And Colplay for all purposes don't even have a rhythm section -- which, given the importance of beats on rap and r&b stations, would seem to a fairly relevant factor in this equation, I'd think.)

― chuck, Wednesday, 25 August 2004 18:30 (nineteen years ago) link

kate bush chuck!

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 18:31 (nineteen years ago) link

soulfulness maybe? i dont really think of coldplay as deeply soulful, but there is something about them that i can see appealing to those who like slow-jams or moving/dramatic/melancholy/touching soul ballads. but hey, ludacris likes the white stripes and has commented in an interview that he wanted to sample 7 nation army's bassline. as for fiona, joni mitchell has a lot of fans in black artists across the board, from cassandra wilson to prince and meshell ndgeocello. i would think it was a similar case for fiona.

but all this seems a bit patronising to me - we're saying black people as a whole only like stuff with beats. why dont we devote more of this thread to why certain black artists are popular with white consumers and others arent? why for instance are black eyed peas so damn popular with white music lovers? or outkast? why arent MOP? or screwball?

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 18:35 (nineteen years ago) link

Good question, Dick, but how is that any different (or less potentially patronizing) than exploring why certain white artists are more popular with black audiences than other white artists?? (Your points about Coldplay and Fiona make sense, though; I was trying in my post *not* to imply that black audiences only like music with beats, but I couldn't figure out a way to do it. Whether they do or they don't, RADIO STATIONS aimed at black listeners do seem, usually, to gravitate toward music with beats. Which is what I said.)

― chuck, Wednesday, 25 August 2004 18:42 (nineteen years ago) link

And Joni Mitchell had a better sense of rhythm than Fiona, anyway. (And White Stripes have a better sense of rhythm than Coldplay.)

― chuck, Wednesday, 25 August 2004 18:43 (nineteen years ago) link

joni had better rhythm than fiona? im not sure about that. joni's timing was quite a bit less stringent than fionas, at least in the way she sings (not saying this is a good or bad thing).

from what ive heard, and the times i was in NYC listening to hot 97 and the like, black radio in the US is in a miserably limited beats/hip hop-reliant state.

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 18:47 (nineteen years ago) link

x-post, i agree, both generalisations are redundant and prone to generalisations. is there really that much in common between say, prince and mick collins? they both appeal to majority white audiences but play to probably vastly different sectors of the white market.

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 18:53 (nineteen years ago) link

Prince and Mick Collins both incorporate guitar rock, though. So does Darius Rucker! (Which is not to imply that white people only like music with guitars, of course. I mean, Lionel Richie had a country hit in the early '80s. Though I guess he had previously been in a guitar band, so never mind.)

― chuck, Wednesday, 25 August 2004 19:01 (nineteen years ago) link

but princes guitar rock and mick's guitar rock are at almost polar sides of the guitar rock spectrum.

pop star jamelia in the UK doesnt do guitar rock or guitar pop even but white people sure love her music!

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 19:04 (nineteen years ago) link

And MOP (who, wait a minute, are totally aiming at white metal audiences these days, aren't they??) incorporate guitar rock, too. (Anyway, LOTS of white fans buy r&b and rap records these days -- way more than black fans buying country or even rock records, I bet -- so this guitar stuff is kind of stupid.)

― chuck, Wednesday, 25 August 2004 19:09 (nineteen years ago) link

MOP have done one album with guitars, but thats about it.

this post is turning into something like a 'i bet you this race buys that race's music more than the other race' contest......

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 19:11 (nineteen years ago) link

charles shaar murray would probably argue the diff. between pop and rock audiences are an important factor in this argument.

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 19:14 (nineteen years ago) link

Pop audiences seem pretty open in both directions (and people like Paula Abdul and Mariah and Christina Aguillera and Pink and Gwen Stefani are just about raceless, when you get down to it), so that's a fair point. But rock kids all like hip-hop these days, right?

― chuck, Wednesday, 25 August 2004 19:24 (nineteen years ago) link

You'd be surprised, Chuck.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 20:09 (nineteen years ago) link

"Iiiiii HATE YOU
And Iiiiiii BE-RATE YOU!"

Star Trek IV?

― Angus Von Santana, Wednesday, 25 August 2004 20:38 (nineteen years ago) link

yeah i cant see all that many rock kids liking rap.

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 20:48 (nineteen years ago) link

um...you're joking, right?? (or have you just not talked to any white kids from the suburbs in the past decade and a half??)

― chuck, Wednesday, 25 August 2004 20:54 (nineteen years ago) link

this is retarded. let's all agree that people of ALL races prefer their music by Ronnie James Dio and be done with this thread.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 20:58 (nineteen years ago) link

no, in london/england at least, tons of indie kids look at rap with scorn.

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:07 (nineteen years ago) link

Most nu-metal kids like at least a few rap acts, though. Or I assume so from the fact that Eminem and 50 Cent play regularly on the Kerrang channel.

― Wooden (Wooden), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:09 (nineteen years ago) link

"indie kids" =/ "rock kids"

― chuck, Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:18 (nineteen years ago) link

and "england" =/ "the united states"

― chuck, Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:19 (nineteen years ago) link

That first post would appear to encapsulate Chuck's central contribution to ILX.

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:19 (nineteen years ago) link

(I don't know why that reads so snarky. It's a good point, and a true one, and it was fun seeing it brought down to such a punchy presentation.)

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:20 (nineteen years ago) link

What are y'all talking (posting, whatever) about now?

― Nowell, Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:21 (nineteen years ago) link

i dont know.

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:22 (nineteen years ago) link

About how indie kids aren't the same thing as rock kids! Somewhere around the mid-90s everyone forgot this.

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:22 (nineteen years ago) link

Because the rock kids were either hibernating or listening to popular "alternative" acts that everyone assumed mostly indie kids were listening to.

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:23 (nineteen years ago) link

Ok...does this have anything to do with race?

― Nowell, Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:26 (nineteen years ago) link

but if rock kids arent listening to much hip hop, other than the popular stuff that gets in the top 20, which most people in general will know unless all you do is listen to specialist late night rock shows, i doubt many indie fans are. i grew up with a ton of staunch indie fuxors and they generally treated hip hop like it as the 'special school' of genres.

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:27 (nineteen years ago) link

"Special school"?

― Nowell, Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:28 (nineteen years ago) link

as in 'mentally handicapped'.

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:29 (nineteen years ago) link

no, in london/england at least, tons of indie kids look at rap with scorn.

Ummm...no.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:32 (nineteen years ago) link

Ohhh.
So you're all talking about whether "indie kids" like rap or not.
Well, I imagine that they might like "indie" rap..

― Nowell, Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:33 (nineteen years ago) link

clearly i need to make friends with more indie kids cos theyre so open minded.

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:34 (nineteen years ago) link

Indie kids in the USA listen to plenty of hip-hop these days, too, though, I think. Or at least the ones in Williamsburg all seem to. As do fans of Korn/Slipnot/Linkin Park, not to mention fans of jam bands (for starters). (Or at least the bands themselves seem to *want* their fans to like hip-hop (and yeah, the biggest sellers are the most popular, um, *by definition,* seeing how they sell a lot. Don't know why that's such a tragedy; it's not like there's tons of rap fans out there buying Black Lips and Gore Gore Girls records, either.)

― chuck, Wednesday, 25 August 2004 21:36 (nineteen years ago) link

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