a mix between The Stone Roses and Primal Scream with the swagger of Oasis

Thread started out kinda LOL, criticising a very specific form of NME branded post-Oasis lad-rock.

But seems to have drifted into not just making fun of BritPop bands, but making fun of mod bands, 60s psych bands, shoegaze bands, suit bands... is this going to end up just basically policing the appearance of anyone who doesn't match an ILX-friendly nerd meets dirtbag generic man (but not too generic, because then you will be criticised for being "normcore" as a fashion statement) standard of male not-caring-about-appearance.

You know I'm never going to get behind that.

I mean, yes, having spent many years on the edges of parts of it (thread stopped being LOL right around the time people I've known started turning up on it) I have many criticisms of its essential conservatism, its sheer *bloke*-iness and rampant sexism. (But hey, funnily enough, the same things turn up in the criticism thereof!) But when people start turning up on a thread to make fun of blokes for *having* haircuts, just... no. There's a conversation to be had about the presentation of Masculinity as embodied in The Lad, the Liam, the Paul Weller, these specifically British archetypes, how it's both a reaction to, and a reinforcement of traditional masculine gender roles in British culture. But making fun of people's haircuts is not that conversation.

I might not like the music, but I *do* admire men who are committed to having and maintaining Style. (Also there's a not inconsiderable part of me that's probably in agreement with Madchen.)

“We’re Section 60 a five piece guitar band from Sheffield. That’s right guitar, I suppose we could get shot these days for saying that word but fuck it, we are what we are and we ain’t going to change for fucking trends.”

“Anyway like we said, we’re Section 60 so just listen to the songs because at the end of the day that’s all that really matters.”

I agree whole heartedly with the above sentiments but Section 60 are much more than a “five piece guitar band from Sheffield”. Section 60 create big fuck off anthemic slabs of indie rock ‘n’ roll (continues)

But seems to have drifted into not just making fun of BritPop bands, but making fun of mod bands, 60s psych bands, shoegaze bands, suit bands... is this going to end up just basically policing the appearance of anyone who doesn't match an ILX-friendly nerd meets dirtbag generic man (but not too generic, because then you will be criticised for being "normcore" as a fashion statement) standard of male not-caring-about-appearance.

for me the thread isn't about bands who dress like that, but bands who dress like that but do it very badly/awkwardly/unconvincingly. They aim for ersatz, but hit some kind of humdrum and inaccurate facsimile.

There's a conversation to be had about the presentation of Masculinity as embodied in The Lad, the Liam, the Paul Weller, these specifically British archetypes, how it's both a reaction to, and a reinforcement of traditional masculine gender roles in British culture.]There's a conversation to be had about the presentation of Masculinity as embodied in The Lad, the Liam, the Paul Weller, these specifically British archetypes, how it's both a reaction to, and a reinforcement of traditional masculine gender roles in British culture.

....ooh cool that sounds like fun

full disclosure: while lolling, kind of uneasily aware that if I were asked to stand in a short notice for a guy in one of these photo shoots, I could do so with little appearance of incongruity.

*at* short notice

But basically, important as it is to talk about feelings and issues and things, lol @ these rubes

i think if i had any intention other than to document this slice of Real England at the beginning, what amused/amuses me was the friction between the hyper-conservative working class hero cosplay and the rhetoric of danger, transgression, last gang in town nonsense

agree that this was never about hierarchical visions of (ugh) cool

so style, sure, but swagger, attitude...why always those flogged horse corpses?

That’s right guitar, I suppose we could get shot these days for saying that word

this quote plus a thousand bands disingenuously repeating it in every town in the UK basically

i think if i had any intention other than to document this slice of Real England at the beginning, what amused/amuses me was the friction between the hyper-conservative working class hero cosplay and the rhetoric of danger, transgression, last gang in town nonsense

I mean, yeah, this is what is interesting about the thread, and what continues to be interesting about it.

That whole thing of "Guitar, that's right, we said guitar, like you can't even SAY that word any more" has a definite smack of "but we can't even TALK about immigration any more" ~Real England~ to it.

Those flogged horses of 'swagger' and 'attitude' and 'cheeky' and of course that endless harping on 'Soul' from which any actual evidence of contemporary Black or African-American influence has been totally purged, because by 'Soul' they mean Paul Weller and Dexy's.

It's just a bizarre repositioning of reactionary conservatism as something dangerous or even rebellious. As you say.

Which is a shame, because I really quite love the haircuts and at least the more cavalier-mod-dandy end of the clothes. :-/

That whole thing of "Guitar, that's right, we said guitar, like you can't even SAY that word any more" has a definite smack of "but we can't even TALK about immigration any more" ~Real England~ to it.

Definitely. It's a pretense of danger within an entirely traditionalist framework, a lie, and a laughable one at that.

xp

need a thread for decontextualized/recontextualized fashion instead maybe - can the outfits be beautiful in the context of unbeautiful signifiers?

which is like, the history of the feather cut itself - dangerous signifier of possible queerness in 1971, blunt denoter of atrophied musical interests in 2015

The victory condition for all of these bands is Top Gear library music, right?

That's kinda what we were doing on the Image Band thread, NV. The transition from signifier of dangerous new concept to empty signifier of retro fashion that I ended up jokingly calling "weightless semiotics".

Another side of this rubik's cube is the whole image being a recapturing of their own youth, or the youth of their near-relative, from a time where there was some sort of 'moral panic' around.

It harkens back to the 'teddy boys' in that respect.

Obviously I'm conflicted; last thing I need at my age is some sort of "OK, you sit with all these older people in your new age bracket and sing those songs about the war", and I did note with some pleasure that one of the latest Saga adverts has it soundtracked by "Here I go again" Archie Bell and the Drells.

.. but I like/love about 50% of the music so far represented, and am bored relentlessly by the rest.

Kasabian? I don't pay them too much mind, on that level they're OK I guess.

The Horrors are supposed to be really good, might give them a listen some time.

remember this thread?

Also pathos of shameless commercial populism that isn't commercially popular: No-one is interested in these bands, but the template allows no deviation from 'gonna be the biggest band in the world' fronting.

(xp) Yeah, remember fun?

I don't know much about Kasabian but I believe they're much more of a dumbed down Lads' Primal Scream than Oasis/ Roses wannabes. Oh, and tell the Beatles to fuck off.

Also pathos of shameless commercial populism that isn't commercially popular: No-one is interested in these bands, but the template allows no deviation from 'gonna be the biggest band in the world' fronting.

^^^ this

They already did. It's not their fault so many are staring at the door they closed behind them.

xpost

I kinda want to separate out The Horrors because they're in kind of a different *genre* from the Primals-meets-Oasis gang. (The narcissism of small difference, yes, but the kind of difference that Americans don't notice.)

But they're kind of guilty of the same thing - being a pastiche of a pastiche. There's something deeply pathetic about aspiring to be a mixture of "Primal Scream and Oasis" when those two bands are known primarily for being copyists and retro-fetishists. (The Primals and the Roses, at least, unlike Oasis made at least *some* attempt to engage with contemporary culture, blah blah Andy Weatherall, blah blah Acid House etc. etc.) The Horrors are doing the same thing, copying from a copy, but with a slightly different set of signifiers that they are the third generation of. (And, it seems, with somewhat more awareness that that is what they're doing.)

The thing is most of these bands seem like local groups with no connections and no interest from the media who - despite the misguided ambition that makes leads them to shoot press photos - will probably never prosper outside of their town, if indeed they prosper there. That's definitely not the case with The Horrors, who also, imho, pull off their look with a certain compelling confidence.

I'm not arguing that the Horrors are not 'pulling off their look', I'm more arguing that they are copying from a different crib sheet.

Oh sure, agreed.

imo part of the Horrors separateness comes from the class/taste complex - they seem to have made a lot of good (='acceptable'/recognisable) collaborative choices, can fit in with the world of the Vaccines, Florence etc.

(but that's supplemental to their different crib sheet, which I'd agree with)

big old goths as opposed to Britpop/Madchester wannabes

Could we please not wreck this thread please????
You don't have to over explain something that anyone could instinctively understand in 5 secs!!

God.

The Horrors are good tho

BTW the US analog to this thread is really not as music related, but rolling fedora 2011

xpost agree less explaining and more pics of lumpen cagoule schmucks imo

For once, upper mississippi shakedown could *you*, perhaps try giving it a rest?

No one was wrecking this thread until you got here. Perhaps next time, try just calming down and allowing the thread to take its course, without feeling the need to add your disapproval.

on a point of fact, you were wrecking this thread

oh boy.

nah, I'm off. I could do without a tilde assault this week.

hoping that's "off" as in "fuck off for good"

ftr this thread was incredibly boring and depressing that it was the most popular ilx thread until k8 and nv started posting actual words in it

The feeling of going back to a small town and recognizing a man that used to be there and seeing him again, and being about to ask him hows the kidder doing, must be going to University soon and then realising its the son

You want next door..

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj242/donaldparsley/the-horrorsdetail_zps074b2d31.jpg

has thoughts on inclusion itt

Perhaps next time, try just calming down and allowing the thread to take its course, without feeling the need to add your disapproval.

― Branwell with an N, Wednesday, February 11, 2015 7:02 AM (24 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Lmao physician heal thyself

we can't even LOL at haircuts any more

political correctness gone mod

haw

the horrors shouldn't have been posted here, probably

they make a good and positive comparison to the landfill shite though

hey lex, cunt, fuck you you worthless piece of shit. you can't die quick enough for my taste.

well that escalated predictably