television: classic or dud? search and destroy

at the root of my distaste for television, slint, and _daydream nation_ might be a distaste for elaboration in traditional ways, i.e. either through elaborated melodies or through large-scale structural constructions esp in a climax/release kind of way. whereas, and this makes some sense looking at my 40-records list, i do like things that innovate by taking the most basic musical elements and approaching them in a new way. this is central to both punk and minimalism. thus, when sterling said _daydream nation_ was when sonic youth stopped being punk, he might have been onto something. it's the album where they construct songs that are more structurally ambitious in a traditional way, e.g. the different melodic sections to "candle" and "cross the breeze." this is all quite broad and leaves some things unexplained but it makes sense to me right now.

Stravinsky was accused of writing "sewing-machine music" by a hostile critic. He loved the phrase: adopted it. Exactly, exactly, is how he responded.

New York Rock-rhythm as a thing-in-itself comes in two forms: the loose pulsar stuff — Elvin Jonesy/Keith Moon-y/Mo Tuckery bulbous flowing in and round a pulse (Dolls, Patti, S.Youth) vs the super- crisp, crystalline exact clock-precision Billy Ficca got from where? Sewing machines is where.

(Bangs and Bangsy-types called those guitars — replayed in the Voivoids, R.Quine against I.Julian – "switchblade interplay" and such, which is just more and unhelpful nostalgie-de-boo rimbaudism: switchblades is macho, and none of the above are pre-eminently macho)

More machines: less emotion. No precedent in rock (VU with Nico not a good call, because while she's somewhat angular, esp. visually, they are soft and fuzzy behind her — hard and fuzzy elsewhere, obviously, w/o her). Precedent, yes, out of rock: Stravinsky, the man who infested the [anti-romantic] classical canon with his own exacting modern-texture ear. For example (to get the dogs out): Verlaine is the only player (on any instrument) who ever HEARD Coltrane, as opposed to merely hearing Coltrane's (finer) feelings, and mimicking those.

How much of the above is actually THERE IN THE RECORDED GROOVE? Not enough, plainly.

PS: PiL and Chic — well, PiL have NEVER had a decent drummer. (Not sure if this holds — Who was the drummer on Rise? — but PiL when PiL were PiL never had a decent drummer.)

the drums on _flowers of romance_ are *incredible.* i'd say more but i'm still dumbfounded.

re precision: i guess. i mean, isn't most of what's on the radio played pretty fucking precisely? what makes television any more mechanically precise than boston?

A drummer with a very distinctive style who had a strong influence on my drumming aspirations at the time (along with Chic's Tony Thompson and the Banshees' Kenny Morris).

PiL and Chic — well, PiL have NEVER had a decent drummer. (Not sure if this holds — Who was the drummer on Rise? — but PiL when PiL were PiL never had a decent drummer.) (mark s)

Probably true when it comes to any attempt at funk or disco, but the simplistic rock drumming (a kind of copy of Paul Cook) on "Public Image" is great.

Marquee Moon is so perfect that it hurts to listen to it.

Marquee Moon hooked me for about a week. i had an mp3 of "guiding light" on my mom's computer when i was in high school. sometimes it would come up on shuffle and i'd be stoned and half-asleep on the couch and unable to figure out who it was. good times.

I can't listen to it now.
I had a roommate whose bedroom was adjacent to mine. thin walls, and he played it constantly. that and the 3rd & 4th talking heads records. gaaaah. i also don't like brian eno's pop stuff because of this guy.

Yeah, I don't know what the fuck I was on about 7 years ago. (I'd never even heard MM until 2 years ago so that was all based on the other 2 albums but even they're good. MM is absolutely great though.)

(That might be the old ILM post of mine that I agree with least but there are a bunch of bad ones.)

(Perhaps it would help if you played guitar.)

haha, perhaps.

'Marquee Moon' LP is overrated

I started this thread. I was a doofus. But still the only tracks that do it for me are Guiding Light and Prove It. (I've overplayed Venus de Milo). I am always disagreeing with you roxymuzak.

Not as much as Bo Jackson Overdrive (or worse, the 'nebb).

I had a roommate whose bedroom was adjacent to mine. thin walls, and he played it constantly. that and the 3rd & 4th talking heads records. gaaaah. i also don't like brian eno's pop stuff because of this guy.

:-( Did you live with me last year? What a shame to have these albums ruined for you!

'torn curtain' is so amazing.

can definitely see how it'd be annoying if heard all the time though!

search: that 'live at the old waldorf' boot that rhino handmade put out in some ridiculously limited number a few years back; i think you can get it off itunes now if you wanna buy.

yessssss, the live at the waldorf disc is positively mindbending. also it is super-crunchy. when i interviewed richard lloyd a few years back, he said this: "That's the chainsaw heavy-metal version of the band," he jokes. "We were playing Ampeg V-4 amplifiers on that tour. They were the size of a fucking house! Keith Richards talked us into using them. The Stones were using those outdoors for stadium shows, and we were playing indoors for 500 people!" i've gotten heavily into television bootlegs over the years -- there are a ton of them! it's pretty fascinating to hear the pre-Marquee Moon recordings that show how the band developed the songs into the perfect versions that are on the album.

I also have a knee-jerk "turn it off!" reaction to Marquee Moon from overexposure. It's too bad. But I wouldn't mind hearing Adventure some more.

I really should have got that "waldorf" disc when I had the chance!

yeah, it is really silly that they put that out in such a limited format ... i think it was rhino handmade's fastest sellout ever. and it's a pretty vital addition to Television's scant discography. but i guess you can get it via itunes or other more nefarious means ... just google it.

huh.

interesting, will have to check it out.
other extracurricular activities: http://www.cereghinosmith.com/

Did y'all catch that they have finally committed "about 10 tracks" to tape with another session in the offing? Apparently Jimmy Rip has been pushing everyone to get the new album done.

My twenty TV and Verlaine tracks.