Black Sabbath: 13

Man, it kicks the shit out of Never Say Die/Technical Ecstasy/Born Again!

literally no way is this possible

i listened to this album on grooveshark fast n bulbous

But is it better than the new Deep Purple record?

no.

okay listened to a couple songs and shut it off, that '09 Heaven & Hell record smokes this not to mention the last couple Ozzy Sabbath records

I'm about to give it a listen.

I honestly like God Is Dead pretty well. I mean, it's about as good as it could possibly be, considering they blew it with the drummer thing. I wish they'd gotten Ginger Baker or Tommy Aldridge or Jason Bonham or literally ANYONE besides the unmentionable.

I'm a pretty big fan of Black Sabbath. I own all their records. The thing I can say going into this one is that there is no possible way it can be as good as the 2009 Heaven & Hell record because that project was thoroughly unselfconscious and honest. Whereas I'm certain in advance that 13 is highly calculated and "safe," which Black Sabbath never was in the 70s.

Back soon...

Ok I listened start to finish (to the 8 song version) and I am impressed. Planning to write a much more extensive version of my first impressions. It's certainly a glass house, but I'm a fan and found a lot to like, considering the context.

I was expecting the worst when I kept up with what people were saying on this thread, yet here I am enjoying this new record... go figure!

Many folks are bringing a whole lotta baggage to the table in their reactions to this album. Are panties twisted because it's not as good as Vol. 4? Why is it such a big deal that Ward isn't on it? He wasn't on The Devil You Know either. From every account I've heard, Bill Ward cannot play like he used to. In an interview Ozzy mentioned that Bill simply was not capable of playing full shows, but they would have been happy to have him do what he can with a backup drummer, but his pride wouldn't allow for it.

"...we all had to ask, 'Can he do an hour-and-a-half, two-hour gig? Can he cope?' My suggestion was that we run through a set and see how he got on because he was so out of condition and the drummer is the most demanding job in the whole band. We looked at Bill and he couldn't remember what the fuck we were doing. But he didn't come clean and say, 'I can't cut this gig but can we work something out, guys, where I'll come on but with another drummer backing me up?' Or, 'I'll come and play a few songs', that would have been cool.

"I get where he's coming from, though. His pride was hurt and I get it. I really do get it. The guy will always be a dear, dear friend and a brother to me, but you either shit or get off the pot."

Ozzy continues: "I get up and I hit the gym most mornings. I vocal exercise and I keep myself going. I sing for a living so if I don't sing for two or five years then I go, Oh I'm going to get back together with Black Sabbath, if I don't make any adjustments to my attitude towards it then I'm not going to get the gig, you know. He can't be surprised that he didn't get the gig. He can't be! (nearly shouting) Fucking hell!"

"You know them yellow fucking stick-on memo notes? HE had them all over his fucking drums. I was like, What the fuck's that for, Bill? He said, 'I can't remember what I'm doing.' I go, how are you doing to remember out of those 500,000 bits of paper stuck all over your kit, which one you're looking at, Bill? 'I'll know' Ah, OK great.' -- MOJO

Chances are high this could be Tony Iommi's last album. Or Ozzy's or Geezer's. I'm enjoying the hell out of the album, and hope to see them play the new songs along with the old in August.

Jesus fucking Christ, I've seen Ozzy three or four times, once with Sabbath, and I'm shocked that guy can play a hour and a half or two hour gig. In fact, by most standards he barely did, and it's hard to believe an extra ten years or whatever has made him better.

The point is, Ward was originally announced as participating, and now he's not. Given Ozzy Inc. is the same crew that replaced the rhythm section of his solo albums over money disputes, and fucked with Iron Maiden for making him look bad, it's hard for me to believe anything that drools out of his mouth.

agreed

I should stress that by "that guy" I meant Ozzy, the water-bucket dumping tool. Not Ward. If Ward literally could not do it, physically, then he wouldn't have lobbied to stay in the band, where he'd have to put up or shut up. No doubt he was just getting the contractual shaft first and foremost, with an excuse retrofitted for his absence.

I've seen Ozzy three times in the 2000s—solo in 2007 and 2010, and with Black Sabbath in 2004—and in 2004 and 2007 he was okay-to-good. In 2010, though, he was much better than either of the two prior times and played a much longer set, two hours plus. He has actually been in better voice the last couple of years than in the years prior, mostly due to giving up booze and drugs and eating better, exercising more, etc.. I don't know how he sounds right now, because he did relapse recently.

It's also worth remembering that Ward suffered a major heart attack 15 years ago, when the group first attempted a reunion. It's entirely within the realm of possibility that he turned out not to be at full physical capacity.

I saw him post heart attack, he was fine.

I mean, it's all moot, because none of them are operating at their peak, by any stretch. This reunion is symbolic at best, and minus Ward totally pointless. Because as I've pointed out repeatedly, Black Sabbath already reunited, with Ward, back in 1997 and 2004. It was fine. The only reason to record a new album was to record with the original line-up.

Ronnie did a better job of it than Ozzy, I'm okay with not having any more Sabbath reunions myself. Especially if Ward isn't part of it, for whatever reason.

The only reason to record a new album was to record with the original line-up.

Yeah, because none of the other three could possibly have anything to say, as artists, separate of Bill Ward. Because, you know, they're not actually artists; they're trained bears, here to do nostalgic living-jukebox stunts for "fans" like you.

lol

I heard some of it this afternoon in the back ground and that tune "Loner" I thought was alright (even if that cell phone recording up there is pretty shabby).

Even if it was with Bill Ward, Sabbath in 2013 wasn't going to be Sabbath in '73 either way.

It probably would have been cooler for them to have worked something out with Bill Ward and had him play what he could and used Vinny Appice for some of the show and recording, but no-one probably wanted to take a pay cut on the last big pay day to make it even out.

Oh well, maybe they will get another shot or maybe not.

Yeah, because none of the other three could possibly have anything to say, as artists, separate of Bill Ward. Because, you know, they're not actually artists; they're trained bears, here to do nostalgic living-jukebox stunts for "fans" like you.

keep telling yourself that's the rationale behind calling bullshit on this crap

Remind me again what makes 13 bullshit but not the last Heaven & Hell album and tour?

I saw Dio with Geezer, Tony and Vinny Appice and it was great. Ozzy, Geezer, Tony and Tommy Clufetos at Lolla were even better. I call bullshit on Sabbath fans calling bullshit when they didn't even bother checking out Dio's last tour, and what could possibly be Iommi's last.

I heard a song from 13 on the radio today called "Soulless Child" and it sounded pretty cool, especially the instrumental passages!

He wasn't on The Devil You Know either.

apice played on mob rules and dehumanizer and is essential to that formation of black sabbath, as ward is to the ozzy era

So it would seem that Uncle Acid & The Deadbeats are Sabbath's choice of support act during the Europe & UK dates.

http://www.standard.co.uk/showbiz/celebrity-news/black-sabbath-storm-to-top-of-the-charts--43-years-after-their-last-number-one-album-8661592.html

xp that seems like a pretty good choice. Ozzy has professed a love of Sleep before but I suppose they don't really liven up a crowd not entirely made up of Weedians.

"But the likes of Rod, and Elton John and us have got something different. We know our craft."

picturing ozzy saying this in 1973 and lolz

There's an original on Rod's new album called "Sexual Religion," following his cover of Tom Waits' "Picture In A Frame." He knows his craft.

Butler, Iommi and Bill Ward were still officially called Black Sabbath, the new line-up opted to call themselves Heaven & Hell, after the album of the same name, to avoid confusion. Ward was initially set to participate, but dropped out before the tour began due to musical differences with "a couple of the band members". - Wikipedia

Ozzy and Sharon had nothing to do with Ward not bring involved in Heaven & Hell. Pretty sure Ozzy and Bill have always gotten along.

Also, heart attacks aside, there was another serious issue during the Reunion era in 97. Ward was to play drums on both new tracks. He laid down "Psychoman" but:

"Selling My Soul uses a drum machine. Bill’s laid down track was deemed “too out-of-time”, so they used a drum machine instead." - Black-Sabbath.com

Looking at Ward's credits in Allmusic, it seems the last full album he was credited for playing drums on was Born Again.

Looks like 13 is their first #1 album in the U.S. ever: http://www.blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=191498. And last week QOTSA was #1, crazy!

http://www.black-sabbath.com/images/13_mo_frontpage.png

I think this is really exciting. Talk about Doom finally getting its due!

this is a really good record. I like the heaven and hell album but I prefer this; certainly think it's the best 'sabbath' album since mob rules, and on par with never say die and technical ecstasy, if not better. pretty amazing because there was every reason to believe it would be dogshit.

whaaaaaat

better than heaven & hell? dude.

better than the Heaven & Hell band album, not the Black Sabbath Heaven & Hell album.

lol I was gonna say

it's arguably better than the H&H BS album though. I'm not a massively huge Dio fan. I like those records but I conceptually consider them a totally different thing.

Also: you have to hear the bonus tracks (the best buy 4), they are as good or even better than much of the record. No reason they weren't integrated into the rest of the album.

I'd say it's more approachable than The Devil You Know, but certainly not as heavy or free of baggage. I love both in different ways, and would agree that they both represent the best Sabbath since at least Born Again. Dehumanizer has some great cuts, but not a solid album front to back.

No reason they weren't integrated into the rest of the album.

Nah, I think they were left off for pretty decent reason. Not that I dislike them, quite the opposite, some of them are my favorite of the whole 13 package, but I don't think they fit the obvious nod they wanted to make to their first handful of records. The faster material didn't quite fit into the vibe. I do think they could've been integrated in a way that really made a possibly "better" album, but I like them as a separate piece too.

heard a few of these on the radio today, not that bad!

a hell of a lot better than that van halen "return to form" album from last year (which i tried hard to like, but dd shit all over).

enjoy 13, but it's a bit antiseptic, right? which may be to say that i miss bill :(

Yeah, Wilk is way, way too precise and robotic in his drumming, I'll concede that as a pretty significant flaw to the album. But I think Iommi just kicks so much ass all over this record that it makes up for it.

ok i'm gonna get through this album this time!

zeitgeist trying to some planet caravan action, which i didn't expect

these songs. why soooooo long?

I agree about Wilk, but at the same time, isn't that the job he was hired to do? If he was off the rails like Ward or pushing a creative agenda, he would have been fired. It's a catch 22, and not a good one. At least he does a good job of keeping out of the spotlight.

That's a fair point, but I still would've liked to hear him loosed up a little. As I mentioned in either this thread or the metal thread, I thought Tommy Clufetos filled in really well at Lollapalooza last summer, not flashy enough to distract but brought some heft.

I think it's probably hard to play loose when you're sitting in a room with Ozzy Osbourne, Tony Iommi, Geezer Butler, and Rick Rubin.

But we definitely agree. That would have made it a better record. But we are speculating. In the real world, I think he did EXACTLY what he was hired to do, which was to be a drum machine that swings.

There are perfect tom rolls that are missing the sound of sticks clicking together or hitting the rim or having any dynamics at all. Sure would have been nice, but it doesn't ruin the album for me. And I'm a drummer.

At the risk of taking over this whole thread, here's my final word on the subject.

http://www.cvltnation.com/the-end-of-the-end-black-sabbath-13-review/

great read, thanks nate