You are right about the "just", my error.
You said there is no place in music for statements: If I want a statement I'll go to my bank, not a record shop. Making a good record should be the priority. Meaning the two are mutually exclusive. And if you feel this way about music, why would you not feel like this about other artforms?
xp
― Le Bateau Ivre, Friday, 10 May 2013 13:17 (eleven years ago) link
If you expect financial returns for your work then you are, by definition, a capitalist. They should just be honest about it, is all.
Does Billy Bragg even have a house?
― Here he is with the classic "Poème Électronique." Good track (Marcello Carlin), Friday, 10 May 2013 13:18 (eleven years ago) link
You're the only one here talking "about other artforms." Perhaps there should be a board called I Love Other Artforms.
― Here he is with the classic "Poème Électronique." Good track (Marcello Carlin), Friday, 10 May 2013 13:19 (eleven years ago) link
Then give it away for free if your politics are serious, otherwise you're a hypocrite.
As mentioned above, the record is licensed under Creative Commons, so it can be distributed for free.
― archibald brandysnap, Friday, 10 May 2013 13:19 (eleven years ago) link
There definitely should be!
― Le Bateau Ivre, Friday, 10 May 2013 13:20 (eleven years ago) link
I didn't know "priority" was equatable with "mutually exclusive."
― Here he is with the classic "Poème Électronique." Good track (Marcello Carlin), Friday, 10 May 2013 13:20 (eleven years ago) link
Making a good record should be the priority
not sure how anyone can disagree with this. music, or "any other artform" is always going to be an indirect way of making a political statement. if it wasn't then there'd be musical accompaniment to parliamentary speeches. it's basically the same argument as when people compare lyrics to poetry.
― ... (LocalGarda), Friday, 10 May 2013 13:25 (eleven years ago) link
The Knife are like Gang of Four in that -- fortunately -- their arrangements and music embody the transgression of their garbled lyrics.
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 10 May 2013 13:27 (eleven years ago) link
By that analogy there is no room for a political point in any of the arts then is there?
Michael, can you address my comments from yesterday -- that all songs, because their scenarios are played in public, are implicitly political?
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 10 May 2013 13:28 (eleven years ago) link
you're being quite silly overall, but
c'mon, seriously? i'm sure it would be a nice world if all anti-capitalists had the unthinkable luxury to extricate themselves from the exchange of capital for labour and vice versa. or would it be a better anti-capitalist move for karin and olof to distance themselves from the higher tiers of that exchange by working in a bank or something?
― ohmigud (Merdeyeux), Friday, 10 May 2013 13:29 (eleven years ago) link
You expressed you think there is *no* room for statements in music. I disagree, I think there is plenty of room for statements, of whatever nature, in music.
xxxxposts
― Le Bateau Ivre, Friday, 10 May 2013 13:29 (eleven years ago) link
I'm sure they wouldn't mind (xp).
Who wants to live in a world full of Statements? There is plenty of room for MUSIC in music. Everything else is secondary. As both punk and New Pop proved, people didn't bother listening to the politics of a record; they just liked the surface.
― Here he is with the classic "Poème Électronique." Good track (Marcello Carlin), Friday, 10 May 2013 13:32 (eleven years ago) link
all songs, because their scenarios are played in public, are implicitly political?
this point denigrates the overtly political record more than it relieves it of the duty to be specific.
― ... (LocalGarda), Friday, 10 May 2013 13:33 (eleven years ago) link
well, "political" is not very specific, is it? "Current events" and "semiotic" and "college lit theory" and "FOX News" are better adjectives.
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 10 May 2013 13:36 (eleven years ago) link
yeah agreed. lyrics aren't very specific though and they never will be. as long as there's room for interpretation then the message is weakened. i mean, this is why we have newspapers and discussion and a massive dictionary and politics itself.
― ... (LocalGarda), Friday, 10 May 2013 13:37 (eleven years ago) link
FWIW I'm not arguing this record isn't political, I'm arguing that its politics, as audible through the music itself (and leaving out the manifesto and everything else) are vague and oblique.
― Matt DC, Friday, 10 May 2013 13:41 (eleven years ago) link
that's what I think too. I'm not criticising them for trying either.
― ... (LocalGarda), Friday, 10 May 2013 13:43 (eleven years ago) link
Yes, the dispute arose when doglatin compared it to LES but it's definitely political in both form and content - it just bites off so many topics with such lyrical vagueness that it's easy not to perceive it as such, as many of the reviews proved.
I'm going to take Marcello's distinction between music and statement as a bit of fun Friday afternoon trolling because it's impossible to separate the two. I want all artists to make statements with their work - not necessarily political but a sense of how they see the world. Of course the priority is to make good music - that means that your statement will be more potent and more popular.
― Deafening silence (DL), Friday, 10 May 2013 13:49 (eleven years ago) link
I want all artists to make statements with their work - not necessarily political but a sense of how they see the world. Of course the priority is to make good music - that means that your statement will be more potent and more popular.
isn't this just a matter of how the listener interprets it? there are loads of artists whom i don't feel make any statement about how they see the world with their music, they merely provoke a feeling or an emotion, that's all i demand, a sense of atmosphere and sounds that interest me.
― ... (LocalGarda), Friday, 10 May 2013 14:00 (eleven years ago) link
the priority is to make good music - that means that your statement will be more potent and more popular.
this isn't really true either, there's no such thing as "good music" and even if there was popularity wouldn't be any sign of it.
― ... (LocalGarda), Friday, 10 May 2013 14:02 (eleven years ago) link
Beyonce wasn't miming in order to question ideas of authenticity, was she?
what this post presupposes is... maybe she was?
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Friday, 10 May 2013 14:57 (eleven years ago) link
If I want a statement I'll go to my bank
i see what you did here but do you
― the white queen and her caustic judgments (difficult listening hour), Friday, 10 May 2013 15:08 (eleven years ago) link
Really should use online banking
― ... (LocalGarda), Friday, 10 May 2013 15:09 (eleven years ago) link
i'm saving the environment by getting all my statements emailed to me
― Mordy , Friday, 10 May 2013 15:24 (eleven years ago) link
i mentioned upthread that the album is licensed under creative commons so it is free, go ahead and download it and share it with your friends
― diamonddave85, Friday, 10 May 2013 15:25 (eleven years ago) link
The Beyonce thing was me making that point that this isn't a debate that's going on in obscure critical circles, it's been happening in pretty much the most mainstream places imaginable.
― Matt DC, Friday, 10 May 2013 15:26 (eleven years ago) link
the claim that music should not make "statements" is ridiculous. most music that features lyrics makes a statement of some kind. politics is not an isolated aspect of life to which special rules apply. it's not even isolated. the political is intertwined with the emotional, the abstract, even the observational.
there is nothing wrong with phrasing political content in a fragmentary manner or otherwise leaving it open to interpretation. the political has no more obligation to argue or convince than anything else.
finally, i'm a bit offended by the suggestion that anticapitalists artists who refuse to impoverish themselves are "hypocrites". walking your talk is all well and good, but this critique is nothing more than bog-standard right wing smugness. we're all caught in this fucked-up system, and we all have to survive in it.
― controversial vegan pregnancy (contenderizer), Friday, 10 May 2013 16:09 (eleven years ago) link
*boom*
― Pingu Unchained (dog latin), Friday, 10 May 2013 16:15 (eleven years ago) link
I think these things are both true - all artists project some form of identity that's bound up in a whole lot of things, political, social, closer to purely aesthetic, whatever, in some more or less vague way (usually more), and the listener response to that is going to vary by interpretation. But that doesn't mean it's purely interpretation, rather just that what's being received is incomplete from the beginning, so a lot of building and mutation is going to go on in that act of transmission. With the current guise of The Knife, I suppose that could be taken two ways - that it's interesting and exciting that they're doing this identity-formation in relation to other fields like gender theory that have done a lot of very useful things on how identity emerges and operates and such, OR that it's somehow diminishing to any politics of their music that they've already worked themselves out and don't leave much to the process of mutation and interpretation. I think the former but I'd have to unravel a lot of stuff to really work out why.
― ohmigud (Merdeyeux), Friday, 10 May 2013 16:32 (eleven years ago) link
Contendo otm
― Le Bateau Ivre, Friday, 10 May 2013 17:59 (eleven years ago) link
Given that we've burnt through all the great modernist and postmodernist innovations, what would constitute a radical performance in this day and age?
Suicide bombing?
― the so-called socialista (dowd), Friday, 10 May 2013 23:35 (eleven years ago) link
Seen as suffragette Emily Davison leapt to her death in front of King George's horse 100 years ago next month, I doubt it.
― archibald brandysnap, Saturday, 11 May 2013 00:39 (eleven years ago) link
Cool interview about the live show.So are they going to bring this down to Texas or what?
― Moodles, Sunday, 19 May 2013 02:59 (eleven years ago) link
very well done, Lex
― ILE Wet Treeship Night (Drugs A. Money), Sunday, 19 May 2013 06:03 (eleven years ago) link
Indeed
― Moodles, Sunday, 19 May 2013 08:05 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah I enjoyed that interview
― Pingu Unchained (dog latin), Sunday, 19 May 2013 10:06 (eleven years ago) link
HO: Every time we dance and fuck, we win!
Very good interview Lex
― Le Bateau Ivre, Sunday, 19 May 2013 11:58 (eleven years ago) link
Pleased they've released Raging Lung as a single. Makes total sense. Always a highlight and perhaps the most politically explicit song on the album?
― Pingu Unchained (dog latin), Thursday, 4 July 2013 23:32 (ten years ago) link
BTW still album of the year for me. And the standards are set very high this year.
don't have a clear ATOY yet, but this definitely gots a lock on the top 10. was thinking today that they might could have given themselves a different band name for this one. sonically, it's a good deal farther from silent shout than was karin's knife.
― Me and my pool noodle (contenderizer), Friday, 5 July 2013 01:27 (ten years ago) link
i wasn't gonna bother with this but my friend had it in his car and it sounded great. but more importantly, the cd packaging was v impressive.
― phantompenguin, Friday, 5 July 2013 01:33 (ten years ago) link
This doesn't really sound like any of their previous albums but I don't see how it's out of character.
― The Reverend, Friday, 5 July 2013 03:31 (ten years ago) link
I mean, it's a lot less of a detour than Tomorrow in a Day
― The Reverend, Friday, 5 July 2013 03:32 (ten years ago) link
This album creates its own universe better than just about anything that's come out in a long, long time. But how often does one want to visit that world?
― kornrulez6969, Friday, 5 July 2013 04:02 (ten years ago) link
Love the username
― Treeship, Friday, 5 July 2013 04:03 (ten years ago) link
I think Raging Lung is my favourite track on this album
― paolo, Friday, 5 July 2013 07:38 (ten years ago) link
certainly the most musically memorable
― Me and my pool noodle (contenderizer), Friday, 5 July 2013 12:11 (ten years ago) link
I brought this album along to test/select new speakers. Wanted to know how they would handle the assault of "Full of Fire". The differences were remarkable imo. Brought a friend along who'd never heard (of) the Knife, by the third set of speakers this song was referred to as the headache song :-)
― willem, Friday, 5 July 2013 12:41 (ten years ago) link
wanna try that w mia's teqkilla
― Me and my pool noodle (contenderizer), Friday, 5 July 2013 13:13 (ten years ago) link
"these speakers accurately capture the sensation of having a metal spike hammered into my skull"
― Moodles, Friday, 5 July 2013 14:28 (ten years ago) link