People will always choose convenience, why wouldn't they, it's a perfectly rational equation
That's definitely part of it, but I think cost plays a larger part. I mean, decent headphones can dramatically improve ipod listening (depending on the bitrate of the files, a variable almost never addressed in articles like this), but who wants to spend an additional $50-$100 after spending $100-$250 for an iPod?
― Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Wednesday, 26 December 2012 14:32 (eleven years ago) link
I'll sell my Copland before I sell my Michell, though...
― Michael Jones, Thursday, 30 April 2009 17:24 (3 years ago)
Nope, the Michell went the week before the Copland. But that's because I had to re-list the Copland...
― Michael Jones, Wednesday, 26 December 2012 14:42 (eleven years ago) link
That's definitely part of it, but I think cost plays a larger part. I mean, decent headphones can dramatically improve ipod listening (depending on the bitrate of the files, a variablealmostnever addressed in articles like this), but who wants to spend an additional $50-$100 after spending $100-$250 for an iPod?
― Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Wednesday, December 26, 2012 8:32 AM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
monoprice headphones are 20 bucks and supposedly sound great
Also I know tons of ppl that own, like, ipads and won't spring for semi decent headphones
But hell I grew up on walkman & cassette
― Andrew WKRP (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 26 December 2012 14:51 (eleven years ago) link
I was talking to someone yesterday about music and ipods, we have similar size record collections and he'd just got a new 32 gb nano and was having trouble filling it up, and I was saying I could fill my 160 gb classic twice over. I then asked him what bit rate he ripped his cds at - "Oh, 128 kbps" he replied. I said I had all mine at 320 kbps and nothing less. "But it sounds alright at 128" he said, adding "And the Apple earphones that came with it sound great". It was at that point I gave up the argument. Some people care and some people don't.
― Rob M Revisited, Wednesday, 26 December 2012 15:06 (eleven years ago) link
there must be several john harris threads, including (iirc) 'rip john harris', please use them
― things that are jokes pretty much (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Wednesday, 26 December 2012 15:16 (eleven years ago) link
I was surprised to see new vinyl 45's of like Hendrix & other iconic bands at a Target store over the weekend. They were packaged in a gift box with a t-shirt, but still, vinyl records @ a target!
― BrianB, Wednesday, 26 December 2012 15:18 (eleven years ago) link
― Rob M Revisited, Wednesday, December 26, 2012 7:06 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
you have to reach out and give some love to these people, sit them down for a side-by-side comparison of their favorite song on cd and mp3, maybe get them a little stoned beforehand, make some popcorn.
― Tome Cruise (Matt P), Wednesday, 26 December 2012 17:07 (eleven years ago) link
these... imaginary people. these... irl socks.
― Tome Cruise (Matt P), Wednesday, 26 December 2012 17:08 (eleven years ago) link
As Skot and others have noted, an article on the subject actually WORTH it.
http://thewire.co.uk/in-writing/essays/collateral-damage_numero-group-on-the-vinyl-bubble
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 15:11 (eleven years ago) link
Good piece, and timely; I've been having a twitter chat with a handful of vinyl-head friends of mine about the increasing occurrence of bad pressings this year; anecdotally it seems as if quality control has gone down - "Savages, Vampire Weekend, Suede, Lubomyr Melnyk have all required three copies this year. Several needed two" - was one comment.
Vinyl's been marketed in such a way that people assume it's a premium product from the off, but, whilst demand has increased, I doubt the infrastructure is any better than it was 3-5 years ago, so it seems as if corners may be being cut in manufacture. I also understand that the gimmicky packaging foibles outlined in that Wire piece - coloured vinyl, decorated vinyl, weird speeds, etc - are usually more tricky to manufacture and no good for sound quality, which is part of the promise vinyl is being sold on.
― they all are afflicted with a sickness of existence (Scik Mouthy), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 15:22 (eleven years ago) link
yup, I stopped buying new vinyl a couple years ago after figuring out that pretty much every LP I bought sounded like crap. Why pay extra for a product with sibilance on every S?
― skip, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 15:24 (eleven years ago) link
hmm I almost just ordered the Vampire Weekend vinyl yesterday... altho tbf I buy mostly old vinyl. or reissues. new stuff I tend to purchase digitally.
― Bathory Tub Blues (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 16:05 (eleven years ago) link
Half of the ridiculous format gimmicks cited were at the hand of Jack White alone. The point stands but it's not like liquid filled records are as common as clear vinyl for instance.
Otherwise the article is a bit too true.
It's hard to not get caught up in the guilt associated with not owning the limited pressing of a new or reissued record. So many releases come in at least 2-3 versions and the practice is so interwoven that it kind of trains buyers, and many times I fall victim admittedly, to desire to own a copy over the desire to actually play it.
― Evan, Tuesday, June 11, 2013 11:56 AM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Trying to fight that mindset- it's particularly tough because as a kid I LOVED to collect cards... so that compulsion just kind of carried over and applied itself to my music collecting.
― Evan, Tuesday, June 11, 2013 11:58 AM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
xpost from other thread...
― Evan, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 16:12 (eleven years ago) link
― skip, Tuesday, June 11, 2013 11:24 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Last two records I bought new on vinyl were Dylan's Tempest and Iris DeMent's Sing the Delta. Tempest had sibilant S's on some songs. Delta had inner-groove distortion. Both were on heavy-ass vinyl, but I never had those problems with older (or thinner) records.
― Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 16:36 (eleven years ago) link
i think the pressing plants are just at maximum overload. reading how the big plant down south is running 24 hours a day 7 days a week there are gonna be fuck ups. until people actually start opening new ones. and how likely is that? plus, the equipment is old. and the people who really knew how to make records are old too or retired or dead.
― scott seward, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 16:41 (eleven years ago) link
so much vinyl being churned out in eastern europe on soviet-era machines.
― scott seward, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 16:42 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, the 180g thing is snake oil.
― they all are afflicted with a sickness of existence (Scik Mouthy), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 16:43 (eleven years ago) link
one good thing about new 180g is that its less likely to be warped. i see a LOT of newer regular weight vinyl that is warped. again, i think that's because of plants rushing to fill orders.
― scott seward, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 16:47 (eleven years ago) link
like if you are gonna pick up any of the Scorpio cheapo sun ra reissues, always go with the 180g. the regular versions are almost guaranteed to be warped.
― scott seward, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 16:48 (eleven years ago) link
was speaking with some people who run labels recently and they say the issues with the pressing machines are that demand is so high that one of the european pressing plants actually retrieved a machine they'd gifted to a museum so they could keep up with their output, but the profit margins aren't high enough to produce any further pressing machines - that the tools to build these pressing machines themselves no longer exist.
― data halls and oate (stevie), Friday, 14 June 2013 07:15 (eleven years ago) link
^^I read somewhere that part of how the plant in Texas is still going is the owner purchased gear from plants as they closed, and they use that stuff for parts on their machines.
― Mr. Mojo Readin' (C. Grisso/McCain), Friday, 14 June 2013 07:35 (eleven years ago) link
That article is mostly OTM, but this bit seems far-fetched to me:
The vinyl marketplace is probably permanently contracted, but rather than over-serving the superfan, it should pivot toward super-serving the casual fan. Anyone should be able to walk into any record store in the world and buy a standard vinyl copy of Nevermind for a reasonable price, rather than confronting the 180 gram pressing or the deluxe quadruple LP that fishes for their cash from a lofty wall display.
Vinyl players cost extra money, vinyls are a hassle to use compared to digital formats, plus they require more storage room... I'd say the vinyl market hasn't had chance of attracting casual fans ever since CDs became popular. Why would someone who's not a music geek buy vinyl, when he can get the same music in in a more convenient and easy-to-use format? The supposed idea that "vinyl sounds better" is not something casual fans notice or care about either.
― Tuomas, Friday, 14 June 2013 10:51 (eleven years ago) link
The Daft Punk album, after all the audiophile hype, doesn't sound that much better on LP than on CD.
― StillAdvance, Friday, 14 June 2013 10:55 (eleven years ago) link
Thinking that vinyl objectively “sounds better” is wrong anyway, different? yes, and I love it for that, but lossless digital formats will usually technically be better - probably 90% of the albums you buy have been digital at some point before the pressing stage.
― Chewshabadoo, Friday, 14 June 2013 13:21 (eleven years ago) link
(To pick a figure out of thin air)
Jonesy has dropped science on other threads (one about minidisc for instance) in the past about how digital objectively sounds better than vinyl. Some people just prefer vinyl sound.
― they all are afflicted with a sickness of existence (Scik Mouthy), Friday, 14 June 2013 13:45 (eleven years ago) link
i guess vinyl could sound better, but i'm betting the entry-level price for a record player that would make vinyl sound better would be much higher than a similarly serviceable CD player or ipod dock etc. personally, i'm no audiophile, i just love the ritual of putting it on and the big sleeve and the smell and all that.
― data halls and oate (stevie), Friday, 14 June 2013 19:12 (eleven years ago) link
you can get a nice older turntable for 200+ that will make records sound very nice.
here's one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dual-506-Vintage-Turntable-with-Ortofon-TKS-55E-Cartridge-/330939973368?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4d0d8f3ef8
― scott seward, Friday, 14 June 2013 19:17 (eleven years ago) link
nice too:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PHILIPS-ELECTRONIC-212-TURNTABLE-Belt-Drive-/221240112432?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3382f03530
― scott seward, Friday, 14 June 2013 19:20 (eleven years ago) link
oh there are loads of nice turntables for sale that won't kill your wallet. most people are lazy though. and don't want to be bothered. there's no actual law that says you have to care about good or great sound reproduction though. or care about analog sound. but for people who are into it its not a big deal. i've been listening to records for 44 years and its never been a big deal or a hassle. its one of the easier hobbies to have. there are records everywhere. and the more you learn and know the more fun it can be.
― scott seward, Friday, 14 June 2013 19:24 (eleven years ago) link
the profit margins aren't high enough to produce any further pressing machines - the tools to build these pressing machines themselves no longer exist.
― data halls and oate (stevie), Friday, June 14, 2013 3:15 AM (12 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
They're called "machinists". Look into them, record companies.
― Lee626, Friday, 14 June 2013 19:37 (eleven years ago) link
Duals are the shit. My dad replaced his speakers and amplifier a few years ago, but kept his Dual turntable which is approaching 40 years old and still sounding amazing. Never had to have it repaired, either.
There's also this guy in Iowa: http://fixmydual.com
― Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Friday, 14 June 2013 19:39 (eleven years ago) link
most people are lazy though. and don't want to be bothered.
I'll cop to this. But for me it's less about getting up and flipping the record over, or cleaning the record, or cleaning the needle; and more about worrying about shit like weight and tracking force and whatever the fuck is causing the inner-groove distortion on my Iris DeMent record.
― Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Friday, 14 June 2013 19:42 (eleven years ago) link
xp - My first turntable was a Dual 1229. That illuminated strobe dial thing looked mad cool.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7157/6768086793_04a03b5011_z.jpg
― Lee626, Friday, 14 June 2013 19:44 (eleven years ago) link
probably just a crappy new pressing! i listened to my iris dement tape for years. never had a problem. must have played My Life 500 times.
x-post
― scott seward, Friday, 14 June 2013 19:46 (eleven years ago) link
for me it's less about getting up and flipping the record over, or cleaning the record, or cleaning the needle; and more about worrying about shit like weight and tracking force and whatever the fuck is causing the inner-groove distortion on my Iris DeMent record.
― Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Friday, June 14, 2013 3:42 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
get an '80s Technics with a P-mount cartridge and you won't have to deal with either.
― Lee626, Friday, 14 June 2013 19:47 (eleven years ago) link
Thanks for the suggestion; I may look into that.
And I think you're right, Scott, as I don't have that problem on any other record. Fortunately, it came with a download card, but I didn't buy the vinyl to listen to a download.
― Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Friday, 14 June 2013 19:53 (eleven years ago) link
P-mounts really easy to install too - no need to adjust alignment or anything. Apparently some other manufacturers besides Technics adopted them too. The SL-1200 doesn't use it, but their cheaper mainstream turntables did.
http://www.vinylengine.com/images/forum/p-mount.gif
― Lee626, Friday, 14 June 2013 20:04 (eleven years ago) link
i love records. have i ever mentioned that on here?
― scott seward, Friday, 14 June 2013 20:07 (eleven years ago) link
don't think you have. Ever thought about owning your own record store? would be v cool
― Lee626, Friday, 14 June 2013 20:10 (eleven years ago) link
Tuomas is 100% otm though, for the casual music fan vinyl is more trouble than it's worth.
― my father will guide me up the stairs to bed (anagram), Friday, 14 June 2013 20:14 (eleven years ago) link
I think I said this before once, but since I loooove my stereo, one of my great pleasures now is helping friends pick up nice gear. AR and Pioneer tables, Klipsch speakers, Pioneer and Marantz receivers, etc.love this guy: https://www.facebook.com/BrooklynVintageAudio?fref=ts
― chinavision!, Friday, 14 June 2013 20:17 (eleven years ago) link
Fortunately, it came with a download card, but I didn't buy the vinyl to listen to a download.
― Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Friday, June 14, 2013 3:53 PM (24 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Many people do essentially, so they feel like their money went towards something tangible and hip.
― Evan, Friday, 14 June 2013 20:20 (eleven years ago) link
i'm being so enlightened about consumption rn
― well-composed selfie (Matt P), Friday, 14 June 2013 20:28 (eleven years ago) link
I wonder how many people download illegally or listen on spotify and then buy the vinyl and never redeem the download code or listen to the record?
― wk, Friday, 14 June 2013 21:04 (eleven years ago) link
my technics sl-q300 is p-mount
― The Reverend, Saturday, 15 June 2013 01:50 (eleven years ago) link
― Evan, Friday, June 14, 2013 3:20 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
my SO's former roommate had a few cartons on vinyl records that she never listened to. she had one of those incredibly shitty USB record players and I'm not sure she even opened the box when she moved in. she just downloaded everything on iTunes and bought the vinyl for... i dunno actually. i guess it supports the artists so good on her.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Saturday, 15 June 2013 05:47 (eleven years ago) link
cartons OF vinyl records
should say crates instead of cartons though
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Saturday, 15 June 2013 05:48 (eleven years ago) link
It's no fun to buy downloads especially when most people have the wrong mindset that everything downloadable should be free. The fact that there is no sense of ownership when it comes to files. And similarly many people consider buying CDs a thing only their parents would do. So what's left to not feel guilty about doing? Buying hip vinyl to mine free downloads.
― Evan, Saturday, 15 June 2013 14:13 (eleven years ago) link
Q: Vinyl sales are steadily increasing in the past few years. Why in your opinion people are going back to vinyl?
A: Well, my vinyl sales aren’t increasing, they’re decreasing – and markedly. People who buy vinyl because they just bought some crappy portable turntable in Urban Outfitters and want to have some 180 gram deluxe reissue of the Velvet Underground and Nico’s album sitting on their coffee table because it looks cool might be temporarily driving some portion of the market up, but I can safely say, from vantage point, that it’s harder and harder to sell the same amount of records, year after year. And most of my peers are in the same boat.
Eothen ‘Egon’ Alapatt interview.http://www.dustandgrooves.com/eothen-egon-alapatt-los-angeles-ca/
― chromecassettes, Saturday, 15 June 2013 15:10 (eleven years ago) link