Nicki is on there
― Number None, Friday, 21 December 2012 23:17 (eleven years ago) link
maybe she's got a boyfriend?
― nobody's bitch speaks again (some dude), Friday, 21 December 2012 23:20 (eleven years ago) link
she's got a lot of sons. Not sure about her relationship status
― Number None, Friday, 21 December 2012 23:22 (eleven years ago) link
Oh I thought the list was only what was c/ped
One woman isn't any better, any rap list that doesn't include Angel Haze is ridiculous to me
― lex pretend, Friday, 21 December 2012 23:28 (eleven years ago) link
i swear i would never have even heard of Angel Haze if you didn't post here
― nobody's bitch speaks again (some dude), Friday, 21 December 2012 23:36 (eleven years ago) link
after tirelessly stanning for the entire year i think i can count the number of critics who voted for her on the fingers of both hands :(
and fucking...other artists just sweep up votes like it's nothing
― lex pretend, Friday, December 21, 2012 12:55 PM (5 hours ago)
Your Dawn Richard is my Niki & The Dove. The difference being that I recognize my favorite thing is sort of a niche release, just like Dawn's ep.
― Johnny Fever, Friday, 21 December 2012 23:38 (eleven years ago) link
Angel Haze has actually had quite a bit of buzz over here, I mean significantly more than a lot of rappers. She might well be higher profile in Britain than in the US.
what as opposed to new star soccer and craft beers music? come on i thought we were above this shite
Call of Duty and wanking are both enormously popular pastimes! I mean the music is mostly execrable but there's a serious point in there that you overlook the favourite music of yr suburban teenage boy at your peril but at the same time I don't want to live in a world where we can't be cunts when it comes to Zane Lowe.
― Matt DC, Saturday, 22 December 2012 09:49 (eleven years ago) link
I like Call of Duty and wanking. ¯\(°_o)/¯
― Rolling "2 chainz" draadje (The Reverend), Saturday, 22 December 2012 10:01 (eleven years ago) link
"Angel Haze has actually had quite a bit of buzz over here, I mean significantly more than a lot of rappers. She might well be higher profile in Britain than in the US."
god this makes so much sense
― one bish two bish red bish blue bish (fadanuf4erybody), Saturday, 22 December 2012 10:13 (eleven years ago) link
how so?
― lex pretend, Saturday, 22 December 2012 10:15 (eleven years ago) link
/what as opposed to new star soccer and craft beers music? come on i thought we were above this shite/
low blow aside, tis the season etc, radio 1's success is based on a very, very tight strategy in terms of who it's aimed at. as cynical as any comment upthread. plus I hardly think you're repping for the zane list, note I didn't comment on the music anyway, just his audience.
― Heterocyclic ring ring (LocalGarda), Saturday, 22 December 2012 16:40 (eleven years ago) link
What makes Armor On a niche release? It feels p epochal. I have not heard Niki and the Dove tho either...
― when worlds coincide (Drugs A. Money), Saturday, 22 December 2012 16:57 (eleven years ago) link
Nothing in particular, other than it being popular music that has obstacles in its path to actually being popular. I mean, who knows why Florence + The Machine made that transition when a whole group of other similar (and better) artists couldn't?
― Johnny Fever, Saturday, 22 December 2012 17:03 (eleven years ago) link
good publicists, good marketing
dawn has a team of 5, she literally can't compete in terms of PR
― lex pretend, Saturday, 22 December 2012 17:07 (eleven years ago) link
Or, like, Ellie Goulding—the weakest singer with the weakest material who gets all the buzz her peers don't get. It doesn't make me furious or anything. I just don't get it.
― Johnny Fever, Saturday, 22 December 2012 17:09 (eleven years ago) link
Ah come on, saying x band I dislike is successful cos of "marketing" is straight up indie bullshit.
― Heterocyclic ring ring (LocalGarda), Saturday, 22 December 2012 17:11 (eleven years ago) link
ellie goulding has a formidable pr team too, yes
― lex pretend, Saturday, 22 December 2012 17:11 (eleven years ago) link
xp ok PR and marketing departments have *no* effect on any artist's critical or commercial success, tbh i don't understand why they haven't all been fired to cut costs
― lex pretend, Saturday, 22 December 2012 17:12 (eleven years ago) link
How do you deduce that others are affected and not yourself?
― Heterocyclic ring ring (LocalGarda), Saturday, 22 December 2012 17:13 (eleven years ago) link
did i say that? can you read? why are you talking to me again?
― lex pretend, Saturday, 22 December 2012 17:14 (eleven years ago) link
This situation is best observed on a case-by-case basis.
Let's go back to the early aughts and look at Good Charlotte. I can't explain their sudden rise to prominence through any other means besides killer PR. They came from nowhere, looked like a bunch of other bands and had an indistinguishable sound, but trounced their peers. It's either PR, or it's the fact there's a guy in the band named Benji. People love the name Benji.
― Johnny Fever, Saturday, 22 December 2012 17:16 (eleven years ago) link
Not commenting on personal problems, just remember the whole "it's marketing" defence mechanism from arguing with indie friends about pop, when I was about 15. I guess don't mention rockism again.
― Heterocyclic ring ring (LocalGarda), Saturday, 22 December 2012 17:21 (eleven years ago) link
Where's Tom Ewing when you need some popism/actual understanding of marketing?
― Heterocyclic ring ring (LocalGarda), Saturday, 22 December 2012 17:23 (eleven years ago) link
i am fairly sure tom ewing would acknowledge that when you have a canny major label marketing strategy behind one artist, and an amateur self-taught team of 5 behind the other, this will have an effect on how well the music does
― lex pretend, Saturday, 22 December 2012 17:29 (eleven years ago) link
Let's go back to the early aughts and look at Good Charlotte. I can't explain their sudden rise to prominence through any other means besides killer PR a bunch of hooky, memorable singles.
― Tim F, Saturday, 22 December 2012 17:32 (eleven years ago) link
I agree with Lex that PR clearly makes a difference to the likelihood an artist will find a large fanbase, but I don't accept Johnny Fever's more ambitious argument that certain acts only succeed because of marketing.
Even with Ellie Goulding there's a reason that Kate Bush ish "doo doo doo dooooo" single is all over the radio.
― Tim F, Saturday, 22 December 2012 17:34 (eleven years ago) link
I can't explain their sudden rise to prominence through any other means besides killer PR a bunch of hooky, memorable singles their residence almost daily on TRL.
― Johnny Fever, Saturday, 22 December 2012 17:35 (eleven years ago) link
Sorry but Good Charlotte were a great singles band, you gots to deal.
― Tim F, Saturday, 22 December 2012 17:36 (eleven years ago) link
I like "The River", but they were already in decline by that point.
― Johnny Fever, Saturday, 22 December 2012 17:37 (eleven years ago) link
I don't accept Johnny Fever's more ambitious argument that certain acts only succeed because of marketing.
yes, i'm not arguing this, it's a pretty old chestnut that is admittedly easier to target if one doesn't want to engage with what i am arguing
― lex pretend, Saturday, 22 December 2012 17:38 (eleven years ago) link
it is honestly pretty easy to see when other critics are being affected by PR when everyone begins tweeting about an artist, who has been around for a while beforehand, on THE DAY that you get the first PR mailout w/buzz track etc
― lex pretend, Saturday, 22 December 2012 17:39 (eleven years ago) link
and as far as me being affected by PR - sure, there are def certain PRs whose new artists i'll make more of an effort to listen to, whether because i trust that PR's taste or because they're a nice person or whatever
― lex pretend, Saturday, 22 December 2012 17:41 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, okay...maybe I just have an axe to grind with Good Charlotte.
I CAN tell you, though, that when Kings of Leon sprung up from nowhere talking about how they paid their Nashville dues that it was a load of shite. They never played the Nashville circuit and nobody in the music community there had a clue who they were. P.R.
― Johnny Fever, Saturday, 22 December 2012 17:41 (eleven years ago) link
but if they had paid their Nashville dues would it have made them a better band or better looking?
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 22 December 2012 17:43 (eleven years ago) link
No. I was just pointing out that the PR story that got passed around at the time was a bunch of hooey.
― Johnny Fever, Saturday, 22 December 2012 17:43 (eleven years ago) link
"Lights" is a good song
― crüt, Saturday, 22 December 2012 17:50 (eleven years ago) link
Somewhat related, but ASFAIK, the disparity in reception of iamamiwhoami's Kin between consumers (its #6 on rateyourmusic) and critics (only the US blog Pretty Much Amazing and Spanish blog Jenesaispop rated it at year end) seems to stem from a marketing strategy that entirely bypassed critical filters. Were there no promos?
― Pauper Management Improved (Sanpaku), Saturday, 22 December 2012 18:17 (eleven years ago) link
Oops, it actually ranked #55 amongst all RYM users in all genres (I forgot my usual filters to tame the metal/prog slant of RYM's demographic). Still, huge disparity with the #640 rank from the acclaimed poll of polls.
― Pauper Management Improved (Sanpaku), Saturday, 22 December 2012 18:22 (eleven years ago) link
yeah you could probably make all sorts of observations about various artists if you just compared Rate Your Music rankings to Acclaimed Music rankings
― fanute me or shoot me (some dude), Saturday, 22 December 2012 18:23 (eleven years ago) link
XXP: Razorlight being taken seriously in the UK as front cover stars/fit to play above Slayer on the main stage of Reading Festival, is entirely down to the preternaturally persuasive campaign launched by a husband wife/ manager PR team, so it's skill rather than size I think.
Also with Florence I can confirm her PR team was formidable. We got bollocked by them. One of their own team got threatened with the axe after he publicly endorsed our (slightly snide and misjudged by me) article on her. The whole experience felt like abseiling into a volcano.
PR people in America can be quite bracing especially if you're talking about classic rock but that said, Ken Weinstein at Q Prime for Metallica was a sweetheart. Nothing compares to some German metal labels however, who in past have made anonymous phone calls to me with voice disguising technology in the middle of the night to tell me that my career was over because of a mocking review.
Also, see Django Django, Crystal Castles, Alt J, Everything Everything etc etc. The horse trading you're supposed to indulge in to even get near to these bands is deeply unpleasant.
The majority of PR people in the UK are ace though. I'm sure I've got more social friends who are PRs than journalists. A really good PR is better for the artist than a mediocre writer. IMHO.
― Doran, Saturday, 22 December 2012 20:19 (eleven years ago) link
haha the multiple stories about florence's heavy-handed PR. i guess editors are on the receiving end of that more than writers, worst i've had to deal with are a few overly stern ones
being nice is a way more effective PR strategy ime (though it's still a PR strategy! i have thought, well, that act that a lot of critics seem to like inexplicably, their PR is a really genuinely lovely guy, hmmm)
― lex pretend, Saturday, 22 December 2012 20:33 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, I don't cover bands if the PR tries to play hardball with us or indulge in horsetrading as a matter of principle but if the PR person is nice/ funny/ whatever, that can persuade me to go back for an extra few listens.
You've got to know what you're doing though. PR is a dark art. A one man, neo nazi punk rock band sent me a fiver with his cassette. I wrote back thanking him and said that I'd passed his details on to the police and a prominent Anti Nazi magazine. He then self released two singles, 'We Hate You John Doran' and 'Why Don't You Stick This Album Up Your Arse You Sarcastic Creep'. When I gave them bad reviews in Metal Hammer he went mad and attacked his neighbour with a Samurai sword, breaking his arm. He remains, to this day in a secure psychiatric ward unfit to plead. But he had phone privileges for the first year. Which is why Metal Hammer received a death threat for me at 9pm every night for over 300 days.
I think it's good to have an exit strategy when you decide to take a more unorthodox angry PR style with people.
― Doran, Saturday, 22 December 2012 20:58 (eleven years ago) link
I realize Germany and Japan were allies and all, but is a samurai sword really an appropriate weapon for a neo-nazi?
― Rolling "2 chainz" draadje (The Reverend), Saturday, 22 December 2012 21:02 (eleven years ago) link
He didn't strike me as particularly bright - or like a man who had aesthetic criteria when it came to choosing weaponry. I kept some of the death threats he sent to me on cassette... he raps on some of them. I found them dead funny until the sword business. Then it was like, 'Right then Mr Fancy Pants media guy in Chattering Class London, taking on the authentic voice of the streets of Portsmouth are we? Not on my watch.'
― Doran, Saturday, 22 December 2012 21:05 (eleven years ago) link
tbh it seems like britishers are always the most vocal to boost female rappers like that lately. i was in england for a couple months earlier this year and it seemed like folks were way more jazzed about, like, azealia banks there than here, even years ago trina's singles seemed to pop more over there than america. feel free to prove me wrong on this, i don't know shit
― one bish two bish red bish blue bish (fadanuf4erybody), Saturday, 22 December 2012 22:06 (eleven years ago) link
america is pretty sexist about female rappers
― Rolling "2 chainz" draadje (The Reverend), Saturday, 22 December 2012 22:47 (eleven years ago) link
yup
― crüt, Saturday, 22 December 2012 23:16 (eleven years ago) link
Fuck "lately", wasn't the UK the place where like Monie Love and Wee Papa Girls got started?
― finally rich, fun-packed, fulfilling (Whiney G. Weingarten), Saturday, 22 December 2012 23:44 (eleven years ago) link
Doran, did this guy have a strong Cornish accent by any chance? This is very reminiscent of someone who used to pester my mate's old band by phone and mail.
― besides Sunny Real Estate (dog latin), Sunday, 23 December 2012 00:05 (eleven years ago) link
― one bish two bish red bish blue bish (fadanuf4erybody), Saturday, December 22, 2012 10:06 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
plausible, i always thought kim and trina were huge in the US though. oh well score one for us
― lex pretend, Sunday, 23 December 2012 01:14 (eleven years ago) link