yeah rates vary hugely from one outlet to the next. i try to write for small/new local publications as much as i can to support and contribute to that community, but one thing i've found really unnerving is when some of those places ask ME to give THEM my rates. i mean wtf am i supposed to say? "well, this place paid me $100 for a piece of this length and that place paid me $1,000, take your pick"?
― the definition of fuckshit bird (some dude), Thursday, 27 September 2012 13:47 (eleven years ago) link
i can't wait to give up promoting shows and start concentrating on some other stuff. Sicko's freetime sounds awesome compared to me patiently designing (and redesigning) flyers and setting up facebook events only to have to start all over again when a band pulls out.
― This Is... The Police (dog latin), Thursday, 27 September 2012 13:51 (eleven years ago) link
By no stretch of the imagination is it great pay but I find the pre-writing bit (unless it's a time-devouring box set) folds into my everyday life quite easily.
Yup.
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 27 September 2012 13:53 (eleven years ago) link
good company during the office day
cold chill down the spine at the idea of this
the occasional realisation that "lustening to music" COUNTS AS WORK is totally amazing for me! i mean, it's not like i'm writing every day. haven't done any "writing for money" today. or yesterday. don't intend to do any tomorrow. but i've been catching up on various bits of music which totally doesn't feel like work but it's definitely part and parcel of what i have to do, even if it doesn't directly lead to £££ in my account. but it's also what i'd just do all the time left to my own devices anyway.
that said there have been a few times where i've just ended up resenting albums that i have to listen to repeatedly to get an angle on and which reveal themselves to have diminishing returns. the really average ones are the worst.
music totally goes with exercise too, i don't listen when i go running but it's ESSENTIAL to working out. DL and i disagree over this but i consider a good work-out album v high praise indeed. WORK ME GODDAMNIT as armand van helden once said.
i loved your bit on Dylan btw lex - really well handled considering all things and a lot of fun to read too
thankyou btw. it was half written while sunbathing in the hammock in my garden and finished off while watching the us open final.
― lex pretend, Thursday, 27 September 2012 13:54 (eleven years ago) link
This happens to me a lot, and it's especially frustrating if it's an album that I was initially excited to hear at first but slowly became a drudge. Suddenly all the interesting things I wanted to throw at it are dribbling down the wall and accumulating in a pasty puddle somewhere near the skirting board. There's something to be said about writing a first draft on the very first listen - something I very rarely do. In fact I'll listen to an album at least 5 times before even beginning to start writing, often finding that what I originally wanted to say has spun completely out of view, like I'm not just observing the album from outside but looking deep inside it and its inner workings, unable to see the proverbial forest for the trees.
― This Is... The Police (dog latin), Thursday, 27 September 2012 14:11 (eleven years ago) link
Having been writing professionally for 15 years or so, I've gone through various cycles of heavy wotk followed by fallow periods. But I have noticed that when I lose a regular gig that's kept me pretty busy - an this happens a lot/eventually if you keep at it long enough; publications fold, editors move on, budgets vanish, etc. - the sudden availability of time and concurrent decrease in writing commitments reopens my listening in some incredibly striking/disturbing ways. It gives me a vacation from listening critically, at least for a while, and allows me to listen almost exclusively for pleasure, with no pressure, real or implicit, to formulate a response. It's like having a veil lifted, and in fact completely changes my mood/disposition for the better.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 27 September 2012 14:11 (eleven years ago) link
the really average ones are the worst
^^^ this. It's easier to assess an average record in a long blog post or even here than in a publication (which I have to do in a couple days for a certain average new album). I can't suppress the feeling of "Well, if it's an average record, who gives a shit?" Salvage jobs are easier.
― taking tiger mountain (up the butt) (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 27 September 2012 14:14 (eleven years ago) link
Average records are great for generic word salads. "Let's see, say something about 'reasonably professional'..."
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 27 September 2012 14:20 (eleven years ago) link
Does that include thinking time? Because whenever people have said to me "oh £50 for a 120 word review seems quite good" and then you say, "yes, but I maybe wouldn't normally listen to this record, so I have to find time to listen to it, and think about it, and maybe research it, 'sit and type' time might not be much, but..." I'm pretty sure I'm not getting anywhere near dayjob pay, and I'm not paid all that much.
― comedy is unnatural and abhorrent (Scik Mouthy), Thursday, 27 September 2012 14:10 (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I'd bite your arms off for £50 for a 120 word review!
I guess the fact that the print places I write for are free publications is the reason why I'm not making dollar from bashing out reviews of the Daphni LP when I'm hungover at work etc.
Though I am hoping that the magazine I interviewed DJ Harvey for this week will reimburse the 50p the Skype call to LA cost me. It's the front page feature actually...maybe I should ask for a little cash for this? Should I?
― Blue Collar Retail Assistant (Dwight Yorke), Thursday, 27 September 2012 15:45 (eleven years ago) link
you can always ask. it's not the end of the world is it? Even if you phrase it in such a way that says you'd like some sort of contribution so that your efforts are at least recognised/remunerated etc..
― This Is... The Police (dog latin), Thursday, 27 September 2012 15:46 (eleven years ago) link
the occasional realisation that "lustening to music" COUNTS AS WORK is totally amazing for me!
ha, same, although while I was in my previous job the pace abd atmosphere were such that it sometimes seemed like listening to recorded music was beside the point.
(cough)
― maura, Saturday, 29 September 2012 17:19 (eleven years ago) link
It's funny. For years and years I wanted, prayed, for a music editor job. It didn't happen for a variety of reasons, and I was sad, but ultimately now (look back from the age of 35) maybe that was for the best. I still love music but I'm selective about what I spend time with, and actually writing about music as a profession would require me to care about way, way too much awful shit. Also as I get older I'm just not as screaming obsessed about tunes and muso minutiae - I'm more inclined to view what I like through the non-muso lense.
― Raymond Cummings, Saturday, 29 September 2012 19:14 (eleven years ago) link
Also, I'd like to play more SPORTS
(no, seriously)
― Raymond Cummings, Saturday, 29 September 2012 19:19 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1828132368/uncool
Hmmmm. New online "publication"
We’ll be running exclusively longform writing -- in-depth profiles of fascinating musicians, thoughtful criticism, archaeological discography expeditions, personal essays and much, much more. They'll all have one thing in common: length. Our monthly "cover story" feature will be a minimum of 3,000 words and some might crack 10,000, with our other articles going long as well.
...
We’re also going to pay our staff. Great journalism is a profession, not a hobby, and that's where we need your help. We’re going to run a single piece a week, not 10 or 20 or 100, which means we'll be able to pay our writers a fair rate for good work.
― curmudgeon, Monday, 24 December 2012 07:08 (eleven years ago) link
seems sort of bizarre to discuss this as a viable publication considering they need to raise 45k in the next 9 days
― J0rdan S., Monday, 24 December 2012 07:42 (eleven years ago) link
Who says its viable?
― curmudgeon, Monday, 24 December 2012 07:57 (eleven years ago) link
Maybe writers could have something like online busking: put a piece out there, and see who tosses something in the PayPal? On Bandcamp, lots of name-your-price (or even set price)downloads can also be streamed for free, h'-m-m... Or offer an excerpt of your literary goodness for free, and for more, make a donation.
― dow, Monday, 24 December 2012 17:22 (eleven years ago) link
x-post--
UNCOOL is being edited and run by founders David Greenwald (Billboard, GQ, Rawkblog) and Daniel Siegal (Rolling Stone, Los Angeles Times).
I'm not familiar with these two.
― curmudgeon, Monday, 24 December 2012 18:18 (eleven years ago) link
Dow, that's an interesting idea!
― Raymond Cummings, Monday, 24 December 2012 21:33 (eleven years ago) link
Toward the end of this piece, about the return of serial fiction via Twitter, there's a success story about offering first taste free; also a way of gauging overall audience response. In this author's case, it's still a way of getting an established publisher, but might work out anyway, depending on the writer's goals: http://www.wired.com/underwire/2012/05/jennifer-egan-black-box-twitter/?utm_source=Contextly&utm_medium=RelatedLinks&utm_campaign=Previous
― dow, Monday, 24 December 2012 22:35 (eleven years ago) link
Hey I agree with your opinion on Miguel, here's 50p.
― besides Sunny Real Estate (dog latin), Tuesday, 25 December 2012 04:10 (eleven years ago) link
lol
― crüt, Tuesday, 25 December 2012 04:16 (eleven years ago) link
let my paypal adorn you
― crüt, Tuesday, 25 December 2012 04:17 (eleven years ago) link
"Uncool" failed to get the money they wanted on Kickstarter
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 3 January 2013 15:55 (eleven years ago) link
Anyone know what's happening with the Best Music Writing 2012 anthology (which was supposed to cover writing published in 2011)?
― my father will guide me up the stairs to bed (anagram), Thursday, 3 January 2013 15:59 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, I'm still at the point where I just really want to read it, rather than the point at which I'm starting to get a little concerned about where the money I sent them has gone to.
― Public Brooding Closet (cryptosicko), Thursday, 3 January 2013 16:16 (eleven years ago) link
http://funboring.com/BMWeditorialboard
Anybody know anyone on their board and ask them?
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 3 January 2013 16:45 (eleven years ago) link
This week we launched our new website for Feedback Press, the new home of Best Music Writing. Soon we'll be making it a comprehensive resource for all things music writing, and this March we'll be launching another series. Check it out and stay informed!
http://www.feedbackpress.org/category/best-music-writing/
March...
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 3 January 2013 16:48 (eleven years ago) link
One of our writers was informed that they were going to be in the anthology when it comes out. And this was probably only about a month or so ago. They said more information would be forthcoming but nothing as of yet...
― Doran, Thursday, 3 January 2013 17:00 (eleven years ago) link
Finally some news!! Thanks folks
― Raymond Cummings, Thursday, 3 January 2013 17:18 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, the writers chosen were informed at least a couple months ago. That's all I know, really.
― katherine, Thursday, 3 January 2013 17:34 (eleven years ago) link
good to hear. the BMW twitter account follows me so i sent a DM recently politely asking if there was any news forthcoming and got no response.
― some dude, Thursday, 3 January 2013 17:36 (eleven years ago) link
BRAGGIN 2013
― finally rich, fun-packed, fulfilling (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 3 January 2013 17:56 (eleven years ago) link
well it was the big baller move i had to do to placate raymond so he'd stop reviving threads about it
― some dude, Thursday, 3 January 2013 17:58 (eleven years ago) link
i know that a certain ilxor is appearing in the new edition, i believe, and very much deservedly too.
― I had such a fontasy (stevie), Friday, 4 January 2013 08:03 (eleven years ago) link
Discussion of the failure of "Uncool" web zine and what it represented and whether it was just more white boys writing about Mumford & sons and over on this thread:
This Is Uncool
― curmudgeon, Friday, 4 January 2013 17:19 (eleven years ago) link
Pretty good xgau interview--don't agree with every bit of it, but some is prob all too true:http://www.nieman.harvard.edu/reports/article/102822/Concision-and-Clarity.aspx
― dow, Friday, 1 March 2013 21:22 (eleven years ago) link
And some is rights on!
The National Arts Journalism Program blog that Christgau has contributed to, has gotten pretty quiet
http://www.najp.org/articles/
― curmudgeon, Friday, 22 March 2013 19:37 (eleven years ago) link
That whole site is pretty much dead, actually.
― Loud guitars shit all over "Bette Davis Eyes" (NYCNative), Friday, 22 March 2013 19:59 (eleven years ago) link
So once every few years at work a student gets sent to me or finds me and asks how to get into music journalism. I have one such student who I'm meeting on Thursday, who (sensibly) just wants to write as a hobby around a day job. What should I tell him?
― they all are afflicted with a sickness of existence (Scik Mouthy), Monday, 22 April 2013 12:28 (eleven years ago) link
Tell him the outlets that pay are getting fewer by the day, and pay less by the day.
― If you tolerate Bis, then Kenickie will be next (ithappens), Monday, 22 April 2013 12:35 (eleven years ago) link
That is kind of top of my list.
― they all are afflicted with a sickness of existence (Scik Mouthy), Monday, 22 April 2013 12:49 (eleven years ago) link
My local paper no longer has a freelance budget. And yet, every week, features are printed that were written for free.
― mike t-diva, Monday, 22 April 2013 12:54 (eleven years ago) link
And furthermore, their pool of freelance reviewers is three or four times bigger than three or four years ago.
― mike t-diva, Monday, 22 April 2013 12:59 (eleven years ago) link
If he wants to do it as a hobby (and make sure he knows it's unlikely to go much further than that), here's what I'd say:
- You're not a writer till you write something. I can't believe how many years I went round thinking 'I'd love to do some music journalism' without actually doing any. If he wants to see his name in print or online, he should have a go at some reviews - live, album, opinion etc and putting them on a blog. With a handful of articles under his belt he should have something he can send to an editor.
- Know the market - which mags and sites cover the kind of music he's interested in. No point in approaching Terrorizer if you don't care about metal.
- Read a lot of music criticism and work out what you like and what you don't.
― pssstttt, Hey you (dog latin), Monday, 22 April 2013 13:00 (eleven years ago) link
The opportunities to write are greater than ever before. But that means there are more writers than ever before, and it's harder to get noticed by the titles you might want to write for (that's assuming he wants to get as many readers as possible, rather than just writing for the sake of it).
Also - and this is serious – tell him he needs to be reasonably thick skinned, because these days music journalism involves a lot more being told you're a useless wanker than it did before the glorious advent of below-the-line.
And tell him to think about the writing first, the music writing second. He'll be a better music writer if he is able to write about other things. First, it gives you a bigger hinterland. Second, it means you don't automatically think in "sophomore album" music journalese.
― If you tolerate Bis, then Kenickie will be next (ithappens), Monday, 22 April 2013 13:08 (eleven years ago) link
Thanks for this; all very useful.
Something I always struggled with; how is best, especially these days, to approach a new publication that you'd like to write for?
― they all are afflicted with a sickness of existence (Scik Mouthy), Monday, 22 April 2013 13:13 (eleven years ago) link
I'm not the one to answer that, but networking and asking around helps. Failing that, writing to the right person and showing enthusiasm while making sure they know you've got your head screwed on properly can't hurt. Worth having some stock ideas for articles at hand so that you can pitch if asked. I guess you're much more likely to get a gig if you can offer something that the other three-dozen writers can't.
― pssstttt, Hey you (dog latin), Monday, 22 April 2013 13:45 (eleven years ago) link
Also, when approaching a new publication …
Sell yourself. I'm always shocked by people who write to me suggesting they are in some way doing me a favour by sending me a two-line note saying they are willing to write. Are you? You and tons of others, sonny. And make sure there are no errors of spelling or punctuation in your pitch. You are meant to be a writer: don't show you are unable to do the basics when you are asking for work. Ditching people who can't spell (or who won't check their spelling) has always been my first line of weeding. It's the Van Halen brown M&M logic - if you can't be bothered to get that right, what else are you going to get wrong?
― If you tolerate Bis, then Kenickie will be next (ithappens), Monday, 22 April 2013 13:49 (eleven years ago) link