Bolt the door, Varg is loose!

Bros for life & all...

What is the context of these photos? Facebook? Norwegian Details mag or something?

http://wonkette.com/assets/resources/2007/04/cd-thumb.jpg

They're the promo photos for his last album.

If you go to burzum dot org and look in the photos section there's a load more there ("Umskiptar" promo 2012). Not sure I want to post a link...

I don't know where you live, but my neighborhood is filled with skinny Steve albini looking motherfuvkers riding the subway in burzum shirts. That's not "distancing themselves" from anything

― Fareed Zaireeka (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 15 August 2012 13:51 (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Hi Whiney, its me, from ILX
http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/254750_232556050115161_5081183_n.jpg

nothing against anyone who just posted to ILX, but i have a very hard time with burzum/varg as an icon/meme. i was a semi-vocal fan of the early burzum stuff for a while, but after a certain point, i realized i couldn't justify any kind of endorsement, no matter how "purely aesthetic".

maybe 100 years from now the music will have become culturally neutral and my descendents won't be empowering armies of murderous bigots by saying kind words about "jesus' tod", but in the here and now, dude should be ignored, thrown away, fucking wiped from history. his work should not be mentioned, his records should not be played, and his shirts should not be worn by anyone, ever.

Post-viking pics, never before has a convicted murderer, arsonist, and racist been so difficult to take seriously

I'd say, in Portland at least, every one of those kids wearing the shirt at least owns and listens to Filosofem.

I was given a very cool Burzum shirt that I wish I could wear out. It's been buried in the bottom of a drawer since I received it. Don't think I'm going to find an event where it's appropriate to wear it out, especially after the local Anti-Fa group here decided I might be a "fascist sympathizer" for booking some dates for Allerseelen (who are really nice guys, if a super corny band).

especially after the local Anti-Fa group here decided I might be a "fascist sympathizer" for booking some dates for Allerseelen

haha this is some 21st cent woody allen/"people's front of judea" type stuff here

haw haw, used to go to metal shows in the late 90s and some anti fascist league guy (well, my friend i went to the show with)passed around xeroxed fliers about burzum's nazi history and how you should boycott them or something. i was sorta into them then and was even subscribed to the burzum mailing list, and damn, those were some freaky ass people. once it got into blacks, jews, and all that shit, i decided to get out of bm and embrace the limp wristed serenity of indiedom to atone for my sins.

well hey lets not paint all black metal with the burzum brush here

well yeah, not all bm is nazi ... most of it isn't. i just remember there being a white power/nazi undercurrent somewhere whenever bm was involved. this was the 90s, though, so side-flipped undercut guy's probably not all about that.

but ya know, if you're familiar with burzum to any degree, it's hard not to associate them with hardcore nazi stuff, because that was the Total Burzum Experience from what i remember.

haha this is some 21st cent woody allen/"people's front of judea" type stuff here

― goole, Wednesday, August 15, 2012 11:44 AM (57 minutes ago)

Haha, tell me more. I really love being the guy with Jewish blood that's accused of sympathizing with fascists. Especially because I don't.

Dwight, I def don't live in a town with skies that blue!

half those people have never heard a note of burzum in their lives though, I mean you 100% know that

― steven fucking tyler (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, August 15, 2012 8:57 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

nobody denies that Whiney sees dudes in Burzum t-shirts. whether they'd be able to tell Burzum from Bathory on an unmarked mixtape is another q

― steven fucking tyler (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, August 15, 2012 11:47 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark

well if people are wearing band shirts of a guy whose music they don't really listen to, then ok the issue is purely an Alex In NYC "how dare Shania Twain wear a Ramones shirt!" rant type thing and it clearly means people AREN'T fetishizing a guy who's mainly known for being a nazi murderer and Whiney has no point, yeah, sure.

if you wear the shirt and don't know the music then... it must be the extra-musical shit you're representing? ie the nazi-murdery stuff? or 'un-PC controversy' in a pigfuck way, at least.

but ya know, if you're familiar with burzum to any degree, it's hard not to associate them with hardcore nazi stuff, because that was the Total Burzum Experience from what i remember.

Dude pretty much ruined his career anyway with the murder and the nazi shit. On the basis of those first 4 records alone he could've just lay back and let himself be canonized as a Tom G Warrior or Lemmy-type scene godfather. Instead he killed his mentor and went full retard paranoid nutcase, all reputable record labels immediately lost interest, mags wouldn't place his ads, he has to pay back everything he'll ever earn to restore that church, and nobody will ever run a serious article on his music.

Meanwhile, surprised nobody has commented on Umskiptar, quite interesting record and definitely a big step out of the normal Burzum comfort zone. Concept album based on a 13th century poem, mostly spoken word & clean chants over slow, long folkish songs...not all of it works but if he continues reinventing himself like this I'm not complaining.

i figure i'll listen to it after he dies

if you wear the shirt and don't know the music then... it must be the extra-musical shit you're representing?

When I was in early high school those dancing bears/logo Grateful Dead shirts were popular among a group of kids. I don't think any of them were at all interested in the music, and I'm pretty sure they weren't really stoners.

maybe they were all architecture dudes who really don't like stave churches

i figure i'll listen to it after he dies

just being mean, i mean, i hardly expect to outlive anyone

a significant proportion of our population is over 60, I think you'll do fine

well if people are wearing band shirts of a guy whose music they don't really listen to, then ok the issue is purely an Alex In NYC "how dare Shania Twain wear a Ramones shirt!" rant type thing and it clearly means people AREN'T fetishizing a guy who's mainly known for being a nazi murderer and Whiney has no point, yeah, sure.

no, it's more complicated than that - Shania wears a Ramones shirt to a photoshoot. A photoshoot and your social life are two different things.

wearing a "coming soon to church near you" shirt as i read this

For a lot of people a Burzum shirt only means "look how much of a rebel I am, I'm vaguely associating with danger and controversy" - it's like all those christians who own Apple devices just because it's the biblical Forbidden Fruit.

Varg's story is so ubiquitous, though, that I'd hazard a guess that it's probably the very first thing anybody learns about Norwegian black metal. It was the first thing I was told about when a friend first played me "Freezing Moon". It is the anecdote non-NBM people recall when conversation turns to any NBM band. I mean, I'm not a metal guy but several times it has gone "oh, you went to the Mayhem show? Is that the one where somebody got killed? What's the story again?" et cetera, invariably people's curiosity is piqued by that story.

I once stupidly asked a Norwegian promoter over dinner if any visiting bands had asked for tours of the sites where it all went down, and he expressed frustration that Varg's story had become synonymous with a scene that was richer than that. He expressed derision toward Banks Violette's show-- which was beautiful, if you were charitable to its potentially exploitive angle.

Me, I don't give a shit about people wearing Burzum t-shirts because some people might just like to listen to Burzum, where do you draw the line, I listen to Death In June, etc. But I do understand that to some people a Burzum t-shirt has come to signify "Hello, I am reducing an entire genre of music to one anecdote!" and I sympathize.

to me, wearing a Burzum t-shirt means you are saying "on some level, I'm cool with racism"

yeah

how about a cream shirt though? (the most opposition I run into in the outside world, when criticizing bands for their racism, is when I bring up eric clapton)

xp Burzum is a pretty cut-and-dry case, so: sure. Others would say that if you watch a Polanski movie, you're cool with statutory rape. So I basically don't pass judgement, I just hope said Burzum-clad dude knows what's up

smiths shirt, public enemy griff era shirt, etc

polanski isn't a heroic symbol to and author of inspirational tracts for legions of organized, armed child-rapers, though. that's the difference. that's why the comparisons to cream, smiths and public enemy mean nothing.

the problem isn't that varg is a racist dude who said some racist shit, tut-tut, like mel gibson or something. he's an important symbolic figure to organized racist hate groups worldwide. you support him, you support them. you praise his music, you ennoble their cause.

i think you are overstating the idea that there are legions of peeps that find him a symbolic figure of racism - theres plenty of skr3wdr1ver and b0und f0r g10ry shirts out there. also the idea that praising his music ennobles the cause of racism is str8 up incorrect.

generally dudes that are this shit arent looking for oblique at best lyrics that might hint at racism, they are down with the full on race war lyric stuff, which is in ready supply for assholes that want a musical flag-bearer for their bullshit.

(note: i agree with others on here in that i dont recall any actual racist lyricism on the burzum records i have listened to, but hey i dont speak norwegian or norse elf or whatever hobbity thing dude is up to these days, so i am not going to go all in on that supposition).

difference of opinion. i spent a long time working this out for myself, cuz i was quite a fan at one point. i mean, we all know that there are legions of aryan/odinist/whatever-inclined white power assholes that seek inspiration from racist black metal, though mostly in europe, and i've been led to believe that varg is an important figure in those circles (maybe this isn't true, i dunno).

his elevation as an "important artist" threatens too lend legitimacy to such views, imo, and i don't want to be a part of that. i'd rather see him forgotten completely or written off as a pathetic hack. let history recover him from the dustbin if it cares to.

uh, "threatens to lend"

I once stupidly asked a Norwegian promoter over dinner if any visiting bands had asked for tours of the sites where it all went down, and he expressed frustration that Varg's story had become synonymous with a scene that was richer than that.

I played a club where Gaahl was (at the time anyhow) occasionally working the door and made the promoter see if there was any way to get him down there that night but no go :(

to me, wearing a Burzum t-shirt means you are saying "on some level, I'm cool with racism"

To me it says "on some level i'm cool with people assuming that i'm cool with racism". Even if you aren't racist and can personally disassociate yourself from the band's political context, a pretty significant percentage of the people who are familiar with the name are going to take it as a deliberate show of far-right sympathies. Given the potential for that to make people who aren't white uncomfortable, it's kind of good manners to put fanboy support to one side and not wear the fucking things.

I just got my two burzum shirts because the design is cool/gross.

Fair enough. Does the potential for misinterpretation of what wearing the shirt signifies not bother you, though?

also the idea that praising his music ennobles the cause of racism is str8 up incorrect.

You do not understand my position, which is better stated as "I am cool with racists as long as they make awesome music", which necessarily involves tolerating the racism of the person creating the music.

Morrissey is a dick and a jackass and I have not spent a dime on any of his solo music and have purchased all of my Smiths CDs used.

Professor Griff is a dick and a jackass who got kicked out of Public Enemy for his racism, which tells me what I need to know about the band's position in order for me to feel okay with purchasing their stuff (which I've mostly bought used anyway, and only two albums).

I think about this shit a good 80% of my waking life (given who I am and where I grew up, this shouldn't be a big shock/surprise) and I try to avoid supporting artists who espouse racist shit as best as I can. The one blind spot I have is Siouxsie Sioux and it pisses me off to no end that I like that band so much given some of the shit she's said and done. I'm not going to lie and say I don't have some amount of envy for people who aren't in a position where they don't feel they have to obsess over this kind of thing and that that envy doesn't sometimes manifest as resentment, because it does. That doesn't change the fact that my first reaction to people talking about these artists is always and likely always will be "cool, you've made peace with racism".

the "ennobles the cause of racism" thing was more my argument tho

Professor Griff is a dick and a jackass who got kicked out of Public Enemy for his racism, which tells me what I need to know about the band's position in order for me to feel okay with purchasing their stuff (which I've mostly bought used anyway, and only two albums).

also, griff had fuck all to do with making any of PE's music

It seems like everyone feels enormous pressure to take a really definitive, ethically reasoned, intensely thought-out position on Varg/Burzum, in a way that we pressure ourselves to do very rarely in music or in anything else. I'm admittedly a n00b to it all and have just gotten into Burzum in the past few months, but I dunno, I just try and absorb the music and dig it for what it is. I really dig his shit, for the most part. It's singular and creative and homemade-feeling in a great way and just fun to listen to. Sure I'm interested in his backstory, but I try not to get too wrapped up in it. Maybe that's not right of me, but there's a part of me that's like, I just don't want all this baggage nor even the dude himself's fucked-up views and writings getting in the way of my engagement with the music he's made.

I just try and absorb the music and dig it for what it is.

Music and cultural "taste" is backed up with correct arguments and facts, not "digging".

"Correct"?

And I'd argue that taste has VERY little to do with facts--arguments perhaps, but definitely not empirical data.