Frank Zappa: Classic or Dud?

maybe you should have kept reading if you really wanted to know why the guy has his problems with Zappa? not sure how you arrived at that conclusion

The only conclusion I reached was "fuck this guy" for either not understanding or for misrepresenting what commercial success or failure means in re: FZ. I didn't address whatever critical problems he has the work, and have no beef with that.

...problems he has WITH the work...

Yeah, commercial failure. If only he had a hit record he coulda been a success. Instead he self-released like over 50 LPs. What a loser.

well, it's a 50-page long article. certianly "commercial failure" isn't really intended as a criticism; he's just mentioning the consequences of not self-editing at all. that's just a small part of the overall point here which is that Zappa was a brilliant man who thought he was even more brilliant than he actually was, and the work (especially post-1971) suffers as a result

Well, I finally bought one.

I got a copy of "Freak Out", a UK 'original pressing of the double LP' (as opposed to the real original which was a single LP, I know..)

Anyway, first track, it's Northern Soul! Wasn't expecting that.

freak out is great

Not sure if "Northern Soul" is accurate.

You don't think it has something of the "Going to a go-go" about it? (The Sharonettes version)

Did you just say that the original version of Freak Out was a single lp? or are you talking about a UK release of it?

It's famous for being about the first rock double lp, among other things.
Came within 5 weeks of Blonde On Blonde apparently.

Yeah, the first release of "Freak Out" in the UK was a single LP.

Yeah, I guess I guess the "Mister America" parts are kind of a "Going to a Go Go" groove.

I guess I guess!

Nine Types of Industrial Pollution isn't bad AT ALL - it strikes an annoyingly polite tone that often put me off him but I love the crashing percussion part it starts off on (the percussions on this is varied and actually provides weighty counter to the guitar) and keeps me interested with these mutant cocktail jazz excursions that hang together ok and builds to an intense prickling..

I'll check a few more links and see what else i can find.

Zappadan starts Tuesday

Is anyone else on the Zappa trust mailing list? They sent out an email letting people know they could be distributors of an official live pre-Roxy & Elsewhere show. It was the Zappa version of Amway. Incredibly weird.

I sat down an made a road trip CDR kind of centered around the more rockin' early Zappa/Mothers. Got up to 1971 when I ran out of space.

Hungry Freaks, Daddy
I'm Not Satisfied
Trouble Every Day
Invocation and Ritual Dance of the Young Pumpkin
Why Don'tcha Do Me Right?
Who Needs the Peace Corps?
King Kong VI
Peaches en Regalia
Willy the Pimp
My Guitar Wants to Kill Your Mama
The Orange County Lumber Truck
Transylvania Boogie
Road Ladies
Tell Me You Love Me
Chunga's Revenge
Willie the Pimp (Fillmore East '71 version)

200 Motels live. Anyone go?

I'll try and listen to a few bits later...doubt the music will be any good. Profanity is rarely shocking to me so I'm thinking lame lame lame. An event-less event, and the track record for surrealist films that aren't made by Bunuel can't be much good.

Thanks for the link -- listening to it now. For some reason I thought the BBC's iPlayer wouldn't work for a U.S. IP address, but this plays fine.

Why don't you think the music will be any good? The occasional dirty words aren't relevant.

mentioned here.

(xxp) Me!

It was hugely fun, one of the best shows i've seen in a good while.

There is a really killer instrumental guitar record within "Lather". I haven't tried editing it down into a play list, but there is some great guitar playing on some of the instrumental tracks like Filthy Habits, The Ocean is the Ultimate Solution and Leather Goods.

RDNZL, Sleep Dirt and Filthy Habits have my three favorite studio guitar solos by him. He preferred soloing in concert iirc, but he seemed to be exploring the instrument in the studio a little more during the mid 70s, including a fretless guitar that he said had an interesting tone but was a bugger to keep in tune.

Anyone pick up Roxy By Proxy yet? I really want to but the Trust overcharges for everything.

Well, I "Picked it up" hem hem, but I haven't heard much of his oveure so hey hey..

Would have been 74 today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gh5gCb1th90

Finished Neil Slaven's FZ biography yesterday – very disappointing. He aggregated just about everything published about the guy, but did absolutely no new interviews with any principal characters from FZ's life. I wonder if Gail's strong-arm tactics were at play. A lot of these people are getting old and dying -- if there's a proper bio of the man to be written, somebody better hurry up.

I think I've mentioned this on some other threads, but I've recently seen a couple really good Zappa documentaries by Tom O'Dell that are worth checking out.

From Straight to Bizarre - a very detailed look at Zappa's labels
http://www.amazon.com/Frank-Zappa-Straight-Bizarre-Unavailable/dp/B00B68PK4G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1421091642&sr=8-1&keywords=frank+zappa+bizarre

or on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fX_bnR1SZRM&index=1&list=PL8flSFeCsFvL4TVFypWCptZ6mASDufeI2

Freak Jazz, Movie Madness and Another Mothers - covers the Flo & Eddie years
http://www.amazon.com/Frank-Zappa-Madness-Another-Mothers/dp/B00MA15AIO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1421091592&sr=8-1&keywords=frank+zappa+1969-1973

Was impressed with how in depth these both were and the interesting interviews with former Mothers and other FZ collaborators they managed to get.

more like wank crappa

amirite

http://dangerousminds.net/comments/1967_frank_zappa_linda_ronstadt_radio

Alex Winter is making a documentary: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/frank-zappa-documentary-by-alex-winter-starts-production-20150724

I'm equal parts dubious and hopeful.

...and UMG and the Zappa Family Trust say "hey, let's do this all over again" — http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/frank-zappas-family-plans-massive-new-release-schedule-20150729

A few things to be happy about...
The Roxy Movie
The LA Philharmonic performance of 200 Motels
Ahmet taking over day to day management of the ZFT from Gail

If the Roxy Movie finally comes out I'll be happy. They've been talking about putting it out for seemingly decades now.

RIP Gail Zappa

RIP Gail – you were the best thing that ever happened to Frank, but maybe just a wee bit overprotective of him after his death.

Shame, RIP Gail.

RIP Gail – you were the best thing that ever happened to Frank, but maybe just a wee bit overprotective of him after his death.

I don't know - I think a lot of artists would like to know that someone would be so fierce a guardian of their work after they're gone.

I'm sure they would! That's the main reason my feelings about Gail are so conflicted. No fan of an artist is owed a warts-and-all look into that artist's psyche to try to figure out what made them tick. We'd love to have it, but we don't deserve it just by virtue of our interest. I don't even know if, without Gail's dogged protectiveness, we would have gotten that look at FZ by now, or if Alex Winter's film will give us any insight we don't already have.

I admire the hell out of her while acknowledging my frustration.

feeling your take on that, WmC

hay at least she released Bat Chain Puller!

RIP.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/09/business/media/frank-zappas-house-can-be-yours-for-9-million.html?_r=0

Damn my bad Powerball luck.

Interview with Alex Winter about the doc he's making

http://audio.californiareport.org/archive/R201604291630/a

Schism:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/30/business/media/whats-in-a-name-just-ask-frank-zappas-feuding-heirs.html

jeez, what a miserable bunch

The zapples don't fall far from the tree.

If you'd told me 2 of the kids would be on the inside running the trust and 2 on the outs, peeved, I would have had the groups switched.