Hip Hop taken to new levels.

this calls for a meta-thread but I really think it's healthy when this sort of thing happens, at least if people can stay mellow enough to keep from stomping off

me : geir posts regarding hip-hop :: motorists in traffic : car crash

I'm not excusing anyone's behavior. I'm just trying to be helpful.

(Honestly, when you were going on in circles examing the hip hop aesthetic, "values", and white culture (but not white race), and long instrumentals, and white-ification, but yet allowing overlap in some cases, it really threw circles arounds the thread and did no one any good, mostly yourself.)

8==>{}

(yes, of COURSE it's juvenile!)

I wasn't going "in circles" with regards to my logic about hip hop.
I wasn't allowing overlap in "some cases," i said that ALL music has cultural overlap - i mean, sample based production SAMPLES music from another culture.

And frankly, I think I have a right to be un-relaxed - or PISSED THE FUCK OFF - when people are searching the internet for my fuckgin PERSONAL FUCKING INFORMATION.
I'm sorry if you disagree.

To be utterly honest, I didn't really get what was going on initially. I will say you can do just the same with me easily enough through my own campus/place of employment:

http://www.uci.edu/cgi-bin/phonebook?raggett

I mean, it's public info -- if this is something you'd rather not have available for review by anyone, get it changed if you can or ask your campus to change it for you. You shouldn't feel obligated to share things you'd rather keep private (and again, I know nothing of Wooster's reputation in general), but the Internet *is* an open resource and you either have to be careful about it or else be aware of the potential compromises. There's a reason many people post here with spam-attack addresses or pseudonyms.

As for whether or not your argument was going in circles or not, you've got people saying it was...so are they wrong or do you want to review your argument to see why people got that impression? Cripes, I'm unclear all the time about things that seem perfectly logical in an argument to me, and sometimes it takes another pair of eyes to say, "Well, you know..."

Well, then I'll ask one last time. How come, then, you attacked James for most of his suggestions, which would clearly imply his vision of overlap, if indeed overlap occurs in ALL music? What was wrong with the overlap he suggested? You never quite explained the heresy in his suggestions, except accusing him of wanting to turn hip-hop more "white" -- which then became "white culture" (as opposed to "white race") which then ended up being defined as "long instrumentals and some such" at one point, which was really bizarre, and sorry to say, created definite loops in your argument, as "long instruemtals" is something quite exclusive from any single music culture, as they exist in practically EVERY musical culture, black and white, etc. I mean, can you not detect the loop and confusion there? I still contend you were arguing in circles. Sorry.

And yes, it does suck when someone looks up your personal info. That's creepy, but it wasn't me doing this, so don't ever fucking mix your emotions regarding that and then take it out on me in the same post, got it?

WAH! Hey, wait!

Well, then I'll ask one last time. How come, then, you attacked James for most of his suggestions, which would clearly imply his vision of overlap, if indeed overlap occurs in ALL music? What was wrong with the overlap he suggested?

I think this question was answered earlier in the thread, near the very beginning: 12 tone based hip-hop with lyrics by W. Whitman would no longer be hip-hop.

You never quite explained the heresy in his suggestions, except accusing him of wanting to turn hip-hop more "white" -- which then became "white culture" (as opposed to "white race") which then ended up being defined as "long instrumentals and some such" at one point, which was really bizarre, and sorry to say, created definite loops in your argument, as "long instruemtals" is something quite exclusive from any single music culture, as they exist in practically EVERY musical culture, black and white, etc. I mean, can you not detect the loop and confusion there? I still contend you were arguing in circles. Sorry.

I can see where there is confusion, but I can explain it to you if you'd like. Certainly I'm not suggesting that all extended instrumental passages are "white culture." (And by the way, "white" always refers to "white culture" unless I'm referring to what I thought most intelligent societies had established was a social construct of "race"). What I meant was that from a ROCK perspective (and there are many "rock" perspectives, but they all are considerably different from hip hop perspectives on music) extended instrumental solos make for interesting art - and that from the beginning, rock was based on instrumental music. I was associating this rockist critique with a specifically culturally WHITE rock perspective - the average music fan of Classic Rock Radio, say. I was arguing that instrumental music does not make hip hop any more groundbreaking, and associating this idea is particularly "white," assuming that the person suggesting it is coming from a rock background - of course if they are coming from say a jazz background, rather than being "white" its being "old." haha.

And yes, it does suck when someone looks up your personal info. That's creepy, but it wasn't me doing this, so don't ever fucking mix your emotions regarding that and then take it out on me in the same post, got it?

I don't think I have done that to you - but you haven't made any personal insults to me that I can remember. UNlike Ned, UNlike the other asshats who were posting before, you argued against my ideas rather than me myself. Thank you.

PS: I don't claim my ideas are faultless, I'm sorry if I've come across that way.

Blount you (and many others) were just as foolish. Somebody needs to lock this shit, it's going in circles (down the toilet).

FIle under: statements that deny themselves. I mean, you have the term hip hop right in there! .....hip hop....would no longer be hip hop. Huh?