More than happy to reconcile, and I am so sorry about my lack of clarity.
Someone brought up the Doors film by Oliver Stone, and the accompanying press about both the film and the band, much of it kind of self-indulgent and pretentious. This is eighties criticism.
In the second sentence, I was responding to a question about critical reception in the sixties / seventies. This is the truth, I'm sure many "rock" critics can confirm this...people consumed music, you were participating in culture. Critics' opinions were not as important.
I'm sorry about my lack of clarity.
In any case, if you want some good Doors reading, get this:
http://img2.imagesbn.com/images/102610000/102617393.jpg
― โตเกียวเหมียวเหมียว aka Don Nots (Mount Cleaners) (Mount Cleaners), Thursday, 26 January 2012 19:08 (twelve years ago) link
man this Matrix show is so great
"Crystal Ship" seems so epic for 2:51
― the 500 gats of bartholomew thuggins (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 26 January 2012 19:12 (twelve years ago) link
darkness doesn't necessarily mean not psychedelic/hippie... that innocent hippie image seemed to be more of a media/punk strawman, the scene and psychedelic experience could be pretty dark/ritualistic
but anyways I'd consider the Doors more of a Goth band than a Punk band
― Chris S, Thursday, 26 January 2012 20:45 (twelve years ago) link
yeah, & as film school dudes, seems like the doors were a bit more about creating a spectacle. had more "theater" in them than other 60s bands i think, both on the records and live.
― tylerw, Thursday, January 26, 2012 12:46 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
iirc the beeb doc makes this connection too! something about a "living theater" troupe in LA in the 60s, lots of genet etc, very "confrontational"
i found a link which may or may not be it
http://www.livingtheatre.org/about/history
whether there is an explicit connection or just the doc drawing lines idk
― Critique of Pure Moods (goole), Thursday, 26 January 2012 20:54 (twelve years ago) link
yeah, morrison was heavy into that stuff -- http://www.doors.com/miami/one.html
― tylerw, Thursday, 26 January 2012 20:58 (twelve years ago) link
Scaruffi ranks the first Doors album as the #1 psychedelic album
I kind of feel like The Doors were sort of the middleman between Love and the Stooges; is there any Doors song that really stands up punk-wise to "7 and 7 Is" or "No Fun"?
― ban dejar (Drugs A. Money), Thursday, 26 January 2012 21:13 (twelve years ago) link
apparently, Them were super crazy and unhinged live, and people in that book said whenever they played LA jim was right up by the stage and apparently bit a lot of van's stage moves and presence
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_dCVZ3U_lipU/S_iOHz8J4rI/AAAAAAAAS_Q/dF9uR9B_dHI/s400/whisky.jpg
I'm about halfway through Densmore's memoir, Riders on the Storm -- kind of goofy, but worth reading for its creepy depiction of the rest of the band alternately ignoring, enabling, and fretting over Morrison's self-destruction.
― Brad C., Thursday, 26 January 2012 21:14 (twelve years ago) link
but basically:
i saw this interview with johnnny ramone and i thought it was interesting when the interviewer asked him about bands he liked, he said the Doors were the only good american band of the 1960s, said he worshiped them..
i know iggy idolized the doors too, so Johnny + Iggy = the founders of punk to me...
the doors had that darkness and artiness and also a real confrontational vibe that seems to prefigure punk in a lot of ways
at the same time, i can't imagine, for instance, the full on organ workout version of light my fire, with its jazz/classical aspirations, couldn't have been a major influence on the first-gen prog dudes like rick wakeman, ELP, yes etc
so the doors basically invented everything
― the 500 gats of bartholomew thuggins (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, January 26, 2012 1:37 PM (2 hours ago)
i go back and forth between loving and hating the Airplane...jorma was such a fucking monster electric guitar player though, he keeps me in the game
"volunteers" is stone jam
― the 500 gats of bartholomew thuggins (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, January 26, 2012 1:53 PM (2 hours ago)
^^^greatest rock critic who ever lived
― ban dejar (Drugs A. Money), Thursday, 26 January 2012 21:15 (twelve years ago) link
I read the Densmore book; it's okayish though anything post-Doors (or even late Doors) doesn't really hold my attention
― ban dejar (Drugs A. Money), Thursday, 26 January 2012 21:16 (twelve years ago) link
I don't think you're too far off but their mid-point was relative Love's softer/poppier side, not their garage rock side. The Doors' material never got as willfully stupid/crude as the songs you mention.
― Full Frontal Newtity (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 26 January 2012 21:17 (twelve years ago) link
I do recall lol'ing at Iggy's line that you might as well call him "Jim Jagger or Mick Morrison"
― Full Frontal Newtity (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 26 January 2012 21:18 (twelve years ago) link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BhszZ53SEC8
― four Marxes plus four Obamas plus four Bin Ladens (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 16:54 (eleven years ago) link
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/903111_4865280425971_368924073_o.jpg
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 23 April 2013 16:17 (eleven years ago) link
aw
― how's life, Tuesday, 23 April 2013 16:21 (eleven years ago) link
lol
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 23 April 2013 16:23 (eleven years ago) link
perfect
― tylerw, Tuesday, 23 April 2013 16:26 (eleven years ago) link
It sort of looks like he's a cardboard cutout.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 23 April 2013 16:28 (eleven years ago) link
Dark times at Maine Labor Department
― Brad C., Tuesday, 23 April 2013 16:45 (eleven years ago) link
^^^unreleased Doors jam from the LA Woman sessions.
― tylerw, Tuesday, 23 April 2013 16:47 (eleven years ago) link
somebody get that poor old man a reacher grabber. he's going to fall and break his hip.
― wk, Tuesday, 23 April 2013 17:24 (eleven years ago) link
I saw The World of Jacques Demy last night--some footage of Morrison visiting the Donkey Skin set. (YouTube clips blocked, but this seems to work.)
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xb2poa_jim-morrison-tres-court-a-regarder_music
― clemenza, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 15:23 (ten years ago) link
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BeyHAEVCEAA6e3k.png
― Ayn Rand Akbar (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 27 January 2014 23:43 (ten years ago) link
http://i.imgur.com/8Mt7Bv2.jpg
― DDD, Thursday, 20 February 2014 22:16 (ten years ago) link
what the
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 20 February 2014 23:10 (ten years ago) link
dudes trying to look like Jimbo will never not be funny
― brimstead, Thursday, 20 February 2014 23:13 (ten years ago) link
The Door(k)s
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 20 February 2014 23:13 (ten years ago) link
secret heroes of rock music: all the session dudes who played bass on the doors records, they had a lot of sweet basslines
― you say tomato/i say imago (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 2 December 2014 18:14 (nine years ago) link
classic beyond words
― brimstead, Tuesday, 2 December 2014 18:15 (nine years ago) link
I know no one cares about them anymore, but Other Voices, at least the parts without vocals, is actually pretty good.
― calstars, Friday, 17 April 2015 02:27 (nine years ago) link
I once admitted to liking (not loving) both post-Morrison Doors LPs on an ILX thread.
― nickn, Friday, 17 April 2015 07:24 (nine years ago) link
they are not a great band but I always have time for them. la woman (the song) is a masterpiece too
― marcos, Friday, 17 April 2015 12:10 (nine years ago) link
The Doors rule, time for a Doors renaissance.I really want the Strange Days mono for RSD
― kurt kobaïan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 17 April 2015 20:58 (nine years ago) link
Robbie Krieger is the most underrated guitarist of 60s rock, either him or Jorma from Airplane
― kurt kobaïan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 20 April 2015 16:53 (nine years ago) link
they are not a great band but...
Yeah, I would argue this. Lots of ILM hate, and they're often pretentious, or goofy, or both at the same time (The Doors, not ILM) but they had a unique and immediately identifiable sound.
― The job killing and likely illegal (Dan Peterson), Monday, 20 April 2015 17:06 (nine years ago) link
the Matrix 1967 shows are really exciting...before all the craziness, when they were just startinghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqjaPNVXfYM
― Iago Galdston, Monday, 20 April 2015 17:07 (nine years ago) link
my dad saw em in LA pretty early on, and he said they were a seriously exciting live band, and that the records didn't quite get that across.
― tylerw, Monday, 20 April 2015 17:11 (nine years ago) link
i'm super into the doors lately and i dunno if you kind of approach them with a sense of humor and the ridiculousness of the whole thing, they are pretty amazing
i love lots of things about them, they are so L.A., a real sleazy form of very LA psych that's very 60s but very non-hippie, violent etc
― kurt kobaïan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 20 April 2015 17:28 (nine years ago) link
yeah i almost think of them in the same way as black flag, kinda south bay beach scuzz
― tylerw, Monday, 20 April 2015 17:34 (nine years ago) link
that matrix show is nice because it shows them before the "bloated lounge act" accusations that they still suffer today took over
― Iago Galdston, Monday, 20 April 2015 17:36 (nine years ago) link
tbf some of that bloated lounge act stuff they did is awesome and enduring imo
― marcos, Monday, 20 April 2015 17:44 (nine years ago) link
eg la woman
― marcos, Monday, 20 April 2015 17:45 (nine years ago) link
sibalibagubbaboudanowaago
― Οὖτις, Monday, 20 April 2015 18:00 (nine years ago) link
is my favorite moment of their catalog
― Οὖτις, Monday, 20 April 2015 18:01 (nine years ago) link
also Densmore and the host of amazing session dudes who played on the albums are one of the great rhythm sections
― kurt kobaïan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 20 April 2015 18:20 (nine years ago) link
They have plenty of fans on ILM btw.
― Quack and Merkt (Tom D.), Monday, 20 April 2015 18:21 (nine years ago) link
I love it all! I just tire of all the stale old jokes...if they were good enough for Iggy and the Bunnymen, they're good enough for me!
― Iago Galdston, Monday, 20 April 2015 18:28 (nine years ago) link
i saw an interview with Johnny Ramone once and he said they were the only American band of the 60s he thought was any good
― kurt kobaïan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 20 April 2015 18:42 (nine years ago) link
also it's kinda funny how Led Zeppelin is (rightfully so) at a real high point of general esteem as a great band, but the Doors are somehow viewed as turgid or overwrought or rambling or saddled with bad adolescent poetry and it's like I LOVE zep but i don't see how they are much above the doors in those departments....or a singer who may be a "bit much" at times
― kurt kobaïan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 20 April 2015 18:52 (nine years ago) link
^^^ yes, though Zep does get some gentle ribbing here for their more OOT aspects.
― nickn, Monday, 20 April 2015 19:14 (nine years ago) link
Doors records generally don't sound as good as Zep's tbh
― Οὖτις, Monday, 20 April 2015 19:31 (nine years ago) link