i guess i should red some edwin arlington robinson
xp <3
― horseshoe, Sunday, 7 August 2011 16:53 (twelve years ago) link
I mean I will defend him against people who say he sucks, but he really is kind of a Lou Reed figure. "Hey guys guess what I just discovered last week and now I have a lot to say about it? African music!!!"
― pathos of the unwarranted encore (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, 7 August 2011 16:54 (twelve years ago) link
Graceland, which is the only record of his that I have burned into my brain deeply enough to play this game with, has some flat-out corny lyrics but imho they are generally salvaged by the delivery (best example that comes to mind = "hey señorita, that's astute / why don't we get together and call ourselves an institute?")
then again it also has its moments of absolutely undeniable brilliance e.g. "she said 'honey, take me dancing' but they ended up sleeping in a doorway"
― swaguirre, the wrath of basedgod (bernard snowy), Sunday, 7 August 2011 16:54 (twelve years ago) link
"Next, I will discover Cuba and Brazil, you ungrateful fucks!!"
― pathos of the unwarranted encore (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, 7 August 2011 16:55 (twelve years ago) link
aerosmith OTM re:sondheim/theatre/complaceny
― chief content officer (m coleman), Sunday, 7 August 2011 16:55 (twelve years ago) link
that was a dumb thing he said about musical theater and maybe it does reflect badly on his approach to music but the self-titled album is still one of my favorite things in the world.
― horseshoe, Sunday, 7 August 2011 16:56 (twelve years ago) link
not tryna to play cap'n save-a-dilettante here but didn't the whole apartheid/sanctions situation make it kind of... difficult... for western musicians to engage more deeply with their african peers?
― swaguirre, the wrath of basedgod (bernard snowy), Sunday, 7 August 2011 16:56 (twelve years ago) link
also real-time LOLs at this:
It is so clear that the talent behind Simon and Garfunkel rests solely in his taller, silent partner.
tho I would love to read a passionate defense of Artie's artsitry
― chief content officer (m coleman), Sunday, 7 August 2011 16:57 (twelve years ago) link
― pathos of the unwarranted encore (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, August 7, 2011 4:55 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
... idg where you're getting this from
― Gatsby was a success, in the end, wasn't he? (D-40), Sunday, 7 August 2011 16:59 (twelve years ago) link
i think graceland is one of my least favourite just because of the big gated drums
― ℗⎣▲✘ (ico), Sunday, 7 August 2011 17:00 (twelve years ago) link
fwiw simon captures such a unique vibe w/ his lyrics and songwriting that calling him 'limited' in comparison to neil young joni mitchell et al seems really shortsighted. limited in what sense? being himself?
― Gatsby was a success, in the end, wasn't he? (D-40), Sunday, 7 August 2011 17:00 (twelve years ago) link
lou reed vs paul simon might actually be competitive on ilm
― iatee, Sunday, 7 August 2011 17:00 (twelve years ago) link
haha i knew i would virulently disagree with plax EVENTUALLY in this thread
lol
― ℗⎣▲✘ (ico), Sunday, 7 August 2011 17:01 (twelve years ago) link
Stealing song from Los Lobos: DudDabblings in and pronouncements on Broadway: DudDownplaying Artie's G contribution: DudNot making use of surrealist lyrical tradition in rock drawn from reading a few French poets and borrowing/stealing lyrics from Robert Johnson and old weird America songs on the assumption that they had already been borrowed: Fine with meEverything else: Classic
― Scharlach Sometimes (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 7 August 2011 17:01 (twelve years ago) link
i mean i love it and along with rumours its the album that i inherited from my parents but hearts and bones or rhythm of the saints easily take it (h+b is patchy as hell though)
― ℗⎣▲✘ (ico), Sunday, 7 August 2011 17:02 (twelve years ago) link
limited in the sense of being pretty content with the self he located early on. Joni Mitchell can't stand to sit still for longer than an album or two, ditto Neil Young. Change up the instrumentation on "Me & Julio" and it fits fine on "Graceland."
― pathos of the unwarranted encore (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, 7 August 2011 17:03 (twelve years ago) link
john dogg if u want me to dig up bob dylan and leonard cohen saying embarrassing things in their interviews i will but you gotta wait till i get off work
― max, Sunday, 7 August 2011 17:04 (twelve years ago) link
do you like the 70s albums, plax? also i want Lamp to come back and explain his challop: S&G is better than Simon solo, or, like, that jerry landis stuff?
― horseshoe, Sunday, 7 August 2011 17:04 (twelve years ago) link
keep a cool head and always carry a light bulb xp
― my Sonicare toothbrush (difficult listening hour), Sunday, 7 August 2011 17:04 (twelve years ago) link
lou reed vs paul simon might actually be competitive on ilm― iatee, Sunday, August 7, 2011 1:00 PM (22 seconds ago)
― iatee, Sunday, August 7, 2011 1:00 PM (22 seconds ago)
― Scharlach Sometimes (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 7 August 2011 17:05 (twelve years ago) link
teamed up
― pathos of the unwarranted encore (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, August 7, 2011 12:54 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
it may be unsavory but if this is what it takes to make a great album then so be it
― ice cr?m, Sunday, 7 August 2011 17:06 (twelve years ago) link
limited in the sense of being pretty content with the self he located early on. Joni Mitchell can't stand to sit still for longer than an album or two, ditto Neil Young.
― pathos of the unwarranted encore (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, August 7, 2011 1:03 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
i love neil young like a brother but srlsy UH
― ice cr?m, Sunday, 7 August 2011 17:07 (twelve years ago) link
for every embarrassing bob dylan interview quote you could come up with 10 'worth putting in a book' utterly classic quotes.e not sure you could say that about paul simon. (or anybody else really)
― iatee, Sunday, 7 August 2011 17:08 (twelve years ago) link
bob dylan and leonard cohen both give great interviews, it's true. don't really think of leonard cohen as someone who's constantly switching things up, not that it matters, great lyrics are great lyrics.
― horseshoe, Sunday, 7 August 2011 17:09 (twelve years ago) link
it's just a lol
I mean it is true that it's a little weird when a guy who never showed any interest whatsoever in these musics just suddenly wakes up one day and says "whaddaya know, African music!" and, having had towering success with that...loses all interest in pursuing the genre further - like "I did African music, now I'll conquer the islands" - those musics are titanic, rich, endlessly complex, to "do an album" in that style is a little colonial you know? it's not like it's any crime to explore and participate in the musics of other cultures but when it looks like your interest was limited to some dilettante cultural-buffetism...idk man. Like again I think the dude is good but I would think that if you loved that music you'd explore Ghana, Nigeria, the sub-Sahara instead of going "well I did some South African stuff...now, on to Brazil!!"
― pathos of the unwarranted encore (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, 7 August 2011 17:09 (twelve years ago) link
you know what i look for in music, great interview skills
― ice cr?m, Sunday, 7 August 2011 17:10 (twelve years ago) link
― horseshoe, Sunday, 7 August 2011 17:10 (twelve years ago) link
So you are saying he should go the Ry Cooder route, John?
― Scharlach Sometimes (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 7 August 2011 17:11 (twelve years ago) link
I mean obv everybody says dumb shit in interviews but in this case it's kind of evidence that Paul Simon's awareness of the music he's working with is profoundly limited. "What Broadway needs is rock and roll!" --srsly you guys are into that grandpaism? cool get yrs but it's kind of a v. lame look.
Joni Mitchell fwiw is way worse in interviews but I haven't see her say shit that is musically just igno-extreme like that
― pathos of the unwarranted encore (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, 7 August 2011 17:11 (twelve years ago) link
lol john as a child of the 80s i knew you eventually wouldnt be able to resist calling graceland 'a lil colonial'
― ice cr?m, Sunday, 7 August 2011 17:12 (twelve years ago) link
aero everyone thinks what he said about musical theater was dumb
― horseshoe, Sunday, 7 August 2011 17:12 (twelve years ago) link
xp I'm saying a guy who "dabbles in world music" deserves some routine "srsly dude fuck off"s along with the propers he deserves for being a great songwriter
― pathos of the unwarranted encore (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, 7 August 2011 17:13 (twelve years ago) link
haha yes what i like about paul simon is his grandpaism
are we even talking about lyrics anymore or just stuff that annoys john about paul simon
― max, Sunday, 7 August 2011 17:13 (twelve years ago) link
whaaaaaat
"island rock"
you are crazy
― max, Sunday, 7 August 2011 16:38 (34 minutes ago)
yeah, cuz this is such a stretch
― surm, Sunday, 7 August 2011 17:14 (twelve years ago) link
jhosh I'm givin you a promotion
http://a3.l3-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/126/f17b062bea0e266e246cd2bec7c16596/m.jpg
― pathos of the unwarranted encore (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, 7 August 2011 17:15 (twelve years ago) link
it is, surm, i mean unless the island youre talking about is manhattan
― max, Sunday, 7 August 2011 17:16 (twelve years ago) link
I think what's going on is I said a couple things & ppl who love paul simon are really eager to pretend that Simon's specifically musical opinions & practices have nothing to do with his music?
― pathos of the unwarranted encore (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, 7 August 2011 17:17 (twelve years ago) link
"Paul Simon wrote a musical, and in doing interviews about this musical revealed that he was profoundly ignorant about musicals...this obviously has nothing to do with his music"
i don't know i also like this point:
Not making use of surrealist lyrical tradition in rock drawn from reading a few French poets and borrowing/stealing lyrics from Robert Johnson and old weird America songs on the assumption that they had already been borrowed: Fine with me
― horseshoe, Sunday, 7 August 2011 17:18 (twelve years ago) link
heres what i remember
me: paul simon rules leonard cohen droolsyou: leonard cohen loves french poetsme: whateveryou: paul simon doesnt know anything about broadwayeveryone: yepyou: paul simon is a colonialisteveryone: okay...?
― max, Sunday, 7 August 2011 17:18 (twelve years ago) link
paul simon may not have a musicologists understanding of the various musics of the world, he may not even have a plain txt message board posters cultural understanding, but he pretty clearly gets something abt making music which is why listening to the deeply sensitive soundz of graceland renders all the reductionist cries of cultural imperialism hegemony! silly
― ice cr?m, Sunday, 7 August 2011 17:18 (twelve years ago) link
admittedly I never heard You're the One which was evidently Paul's penetrating look at "North African" music
― pathos of the unwarranted encore (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, 7 August 2011 17:19 (twelve years ago) link
i mean its a beautiful piece of music, who cares if he had to enslave los lobos to get there!
― ice cr?m, Sunday, 7 August 2011 17:19 (twelve years ago) link
the deep sensitivity is the key
― surm, Sunday, 7 August 2011 17:20 (twelve years ago) link
yeah I mean max it's a thread for talking about whether paul simon is overrated I think if discussing paul simon's songwriting thoughts & practices is a bummer to you you are on the wrong thread
― pathos of the unwarranted encore (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, 7 August 2011 17:20 (twelve years ago) link
i am probably going to fumble this observation but i'm not sure there's a way that paul simon could have made an African music album that was not colonial in the sense you mean, aero? i take your point that he could have gone further and you're right, he made use of african music to do a thing he was already doing, but that's what musicians do, right? i'm not saying there are no ethical stakes. i don't know, i love graceland so much, i am totally implicated in its colonialism.
― horseshoe, Sunday, 7 August 2011 17:21 (twelve years ago) link
me: paul simon rules leonard cohen drools
this thread title is stupid but i mean lets not go crazy here
― Lamp, Sunday, 7 August 2011 17:21 (twelve years ago) link
i went a little crazy there i admit it
― max, Sunday, 7 August 2011 17:22 (twelve years ago) link