Hommophobia inna dancehall style...

Dancehall Fans Against Homophobia is a petition-based campaign that rejects homophobic lyrics, and also rejects the recent attacks on dancehall and reggae by an over-zealous and ill-informed media.

ties in with this thread

it must be nice to be a straight man and not actually affected by homophobia!

I find your division of dancehall fans into the authentic real Jamaicans and the inauthentic non-Jamaicans risible.

50-odd people and a website won't change the world, no. But cumulative outside pressure, particularly on a commercial enterprise such as the making and selling of music, has been known to have some effect. It's one strategy to be used in concert with others.

CLASSIC!!!!!

haha btw the first tenet of the petition says "We are fans and supporters of reggae, dancehall and Jamaican music in all its forms."

Aside from the homophobic ones, I presume.

Even with regards Jamaica itself, how far would your moral relativism take you, stelfox? What would you be willing to accept in its name? Reductio ad absurdam: let's say the murder of gay men became legal, would you still want to lay off?

is the prevalence of knee-jerk liberalism toward jamaican (especially dancehall) homophobia almost as problematic as the homophobia itself?

'factors' don't 'affect change'. they are just factors. you have indeed spent a long time outlining them, and most of us have taken them on board. we understand. this brings us no closer to actually resolving the issue at hand! Dave, I would be happy if for once you actually put forward a workable, non-condescending solution based on your superior knowledge &c. Obviously I don't think you are a homophobe, but it's hard not to suspect that you don't care that much about it as it doesn't affect you.

this post comes across as way too patronising/aggressive so sorry - am drunk.

You obviously don't think "tolerance and understanding" includes refraining from arguing with bigots (as you did so well upthread). From what you've said, I gather you've argued with Jamaican homophobes yourself.

As a gay man I feel a strong sense of solidarity with gay men in Jamaica for the horribly menaced and repressed lives they must lead. I'm "inside" a scene in that way. The "culturial imperialism" argument implies that we should do nothing to stop one oppressed group oppressing and even more oppressed subset; I find that argument specious. Would you apply the same argument to female gential mutilation, the stoning of adultresses, honour killings, institutional racism etc.? Should the West really have nothing to say on these issues and apply no pressure on the countries where they're practised on grounds of cultural imperialism? Amnesty International has recently weighed in forcefully over the issue of homophobia in Jamaica. Do you think it shouldn't have?

cute

and read what i said. i said use of those terms was never advisable. but mate, gay or not, you're in a very privileged position where you can do what you like with impunity. this is not the case in many other places, as you are no doubt aware. the only thing is that handwringing, wailing and telling people what to think exactly when you want them to think it will not change matters any too quick. taking the time to step outside your own life and read and understand some of the things i'm saying will help a lot more. tolerance breeds tolerance, understanding breeds understanding and even with people entering into meaningful dialogue *on level ground* - not a group of rich outsiders dictating to a country that's being shoved around from all sides as it it - this process of change will take a fucking long time. economic security has nurtured the liberal environment in which you are able to pursue your way of life (and that is a bloody good thing, more power to you), but that isn't the case in many other places. as economic security effectively buys liberalism and freedom (look at the way that any time there's an upsurge of interest in and success of hate politics, its always in economically deprived areas) i'd contend that there's a lot more to be got right before you can expect everyone to be as accepting and pluralistic as you demand. call me for whatever you like and throw all the specious accusations around that you feel you need to, but i'm thinking objectively here. you're not.

wrong. you're falling into a trap here. sizzla was denied a visa late last year to which his response was roughly: "i don't care. i can do just fine in jamaica, thanks. i don't need europe or america." then proceeded to say a bunch of really offensive things about gay people (which i feel i *have* to say i abhor, rather than it just being taken as read, as it should be) and that this had only made his belief stronger.

You sidestepped my question. Nasty things happen in fucked-up countries. But do you really think that Western gov'ts and NGOs should not seek to apply any outside pressure to change things like female genital mutilation or honour killings? (Or, for that matter, incitement to homophobic lynching?) You put non-interference above responsibility towards victims?

yeah, all this stuff is dealt with in the opening post (I've only just re-read the thread): in a way that's even more disturbing for the reasons cybele pointed out back then.

Dave, do you know how Ce'cile's comments about the whole issue were received in Jamaica/the dancehall community? she was pretty explicit about her disdain for it. I think this might be one workable solution - to focus on the artists who aren't prepared to endorse homophobia. I suspect many of the more high profile female MCs would be more willing than their male counterparts to take some sort of stand - Tanya Stephens, Lady Saw, Ms Thing et al - as well as people like Sean Paul who have found massive overseas success. (Sean Paul and Ce'cile are from fairly well-to-do families, aren't they? I don't know how pro-gay statements from them would come across.)

anyway yes: if enough dancehall stars are willing to begin the dialogue from within there might be something there. I'm kind of surprised Ce'cile's statement didn't lead to something more though.

miles, i didn't say it was worse. will people ditch the hyperbole for just one second and concentrate on what i'm saying. i'm saying homophobia is wrong, flat out totally fucking indefensible, but there are ways and means of making these changes and dictating to people from on high is not one of them and will only antagonise.

it's really a cse of enforcing the positive and backing it for all we're worth now.

I'd definitely agree with this. on a not unrelated note, did the Ce'cile album ever come out properly? I've spent the last six months or so intermittently looking for it but I can't even find it in specialist shops.

http://villagevoice.com/music/0507,oumano,61118,22.html

peace