Agreed.
― Charles McCain (Charles McCain), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 19:47 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 20:23 (twenty-one years ago) link
― david day (winslow), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 21:20 (twenty-one years ago) link
― david day (winslow), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 21:21 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 21:31 (twenty-one years ago) link
A re-styled Phair is the dream of some cigar-smoking VP of marketing, and it will be his demise. What happened to her own stuff? [Now I'm wondering if it ever was her "own"].
― david day (winslow), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 21:44 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 21:55 (twenty-one years ago) link
FWIW, Phair has been bragging that some legal loophole allowed her to regain the ownership of the Exile masters and the Girlysound tapes. This being the ten year anniverary of that release and all, she's alleging to do an expanded release late in the year.
― don weiner, Thursday, 1 May 2003 00:53 (twenty-one years ago) link
― b.R.A.d. (Brad), Thursday, 1 May 2003 01:08 (twenty-one years ago) link
― jack cole (jackcole), Thursday, 1 May 2003 01:10 (twenty-one years ago) link
― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Thursday, 1 May 2003 01:12 (twenty-one years ago) link
LIZ PHAIR JOINS AXIS OF AVRIL http://www.ab-fab.nl/graphics/abgood.jpg
― Aaron A., Thursday, 1 May 2003 01:55 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Vic (Vic), Thursday, 1 May 2003 02:18 (twenty-one years ago) link
― nickn (nickn), Thursday, 1 May 2003 02:59 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Boy Justice, Thursday, 1 May 2003 06:46 (twenty-one years ago) link
And she's NOT hot.
― Evan (Evan), Thursday, 1 May 2003 11:36 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Catherine (Catherine), Thursday, 1 May 2003 15:06 (twenty-one years ago) link
― mike a (mike a), Thursday, 1 May 2003 16:47 (twenty-one years ago) link
I used to wonder if maybe the reason "Girlysound" wasn't released commercially is because so many of the songs are "covers" and/or use elements of other songs, and Matador can't afford to pay all those royalties. But Matador has released at least one all-covers record (Cat Power), so that can't be right. (And I know nothing about the economics of royalties.)
― Sam J. (samjeff), Thursday, 1 May 2003 16:55 (twenty-one years ago) link
If you are hard up for Liz info, check the mesmerizing website. Coy little skank that she is.
― don weiner, Thursday, 1 May 2003 17:25 (twenty-one years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Thursday, 1 May 2003 19:14 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 1 May 2003 19:15 (twenty-one years ago) link
― jack cole (jackcole), Thursday, 1 May 2003 19:22 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Chris Barrus (Chris Barrus), Thursday, 1 May 2003 23:08 (twenty-one years ago) link
It is very Avril-polished-pop, but I think most of it is great polished-pop.
I have a feeling I'm going to spend the rest of the year very alone when it comes to this album.
― Catherine (Catherine), Thursday, 1 May 2003 23:14 (twenty-one years ago) link
I fear that calling her album a "fucking turd" has led to some confusion.
Let me go track by track so that everyone has a more clear idea what we're talking about here:
1 - "Exraordinary" - this would be a decent Liz Phair song if it was a recognizable Liz Phair song. But they've rubbed her vulnerable personality (or whatever it was circa 1992-3) into something indistinguishable.2 - "Scared" - a total Avril ripoff with half the heart and half the chops. Liz Phair is not a singer, and her vocal talents are thin. This is being generous. These songs were not written (er, produced) with her in mind, and this song is a perfect example. It sounds like a song that didn't get accepted for Avril's album.3 - "Why Can't I" - More egregious filler material in the form of overproduction. The cadence of this song is right off Dawson's Creek. It sounds like product placement.The lyrics are even worse.4 - "You're In Love With Me" - There's all this space age electronica going on in the background of what once could have been a decent song. Picture a 5th-rate Mirwais at the board with a rack of fake guitars and you get the picture. 5 - "Rock Me" - so clean, so polished, so fucking tuneless. At this point, the producting is outright distracting. The chorus is kinda cool, except for the unbelievably trite lyrics. Dude, she talks about Xbox in this song. What-evah.6 - "Take A Look" - sounds like a whitechocolatespacegg song. I like this song, actually. An album full of this was what I expected.7 - "My Mother Is Fine" - a pretty sparse song, considering the company on this album. And actually, it would be great if it was even more sparse. But the piano takes it to Gilmore Girls territory.8 - "Firewalker" - another decent, more traditional Phair song completely smothered by a thousand cooks and a million dollars in the kitchen.9 - "My Favorite Underwear" - The lyrics are as bad as you think, and the singsong melody is paired with a generic chorus in a fashion that turns this track into something sensationally nondescript. But hey, if you've got a crap song, throw in some "provocative" lyrics and maybe people won't notice the mediocrity.10 - "It's a War" - this is kind of a fun rock song, in kind of Styx sort of way--kind of that carnival keyboard deal that really ups the pagentry factor and all. Except that Liz Phair's voice has no business being on this song. The lyrics are a disaster--cloying, cliched, zzzzzzzzzzzz.11 - "Hot White Cum" - The worst song she's ever committed to tape. Maybe this was funny or affecting when she demoed it, but after they autotuned her and let her play with a metronome (or whomever the studio drummer was) they managed suck every bit of life out of this song. Not that it took much. "Hot White Cum"? How charmingly insightful (and oh so coy!) for a 36 year old. 12 - "Bionic Eyes" - led in yet by another daring space age loop, Liz hooks up her deadpan vox with a vapid bunch of verses. The chorus is decent, but the rest of the song sounds like it was put together by a committee reading an instruction book. Strip this song down and it would sound at home on Whip-Smart.13 - "Friend of Mine" - Another sort of mature, sweet song that sounds like something left off of whitechocolatespacegg. Second best song on the album, but who the fuck thought some sweeping strings (okay, so it's sythns w/chorus effect) would make this better?14 - "Let the Night Come" - I swear to you, the multitracked harmonies on this track occasionally recall the Carpenters,except of course that we all know Liz is not Karen nor does she have Karen's alto. But I think Sheryl Crow has a couple songs like this in her catalog that turned out better.
There are two problems with this album, and they are obvious: 1) the songs just aren't all that good and 2) the production does not bring out the best of Liz Phair. Instead, it covers it up.
― don weiner, Friday, 2 May 2003 02:40 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Jake, Saturday, 3 May 2003 01:13 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Prude (Prude), Saturday, 3 May 2003 01:34 (twenty-one years ago) link
I loved Exile (still do) and think Whip Smart was a smart, strong followup. WCSE was - eh - not bad but nothing to get too excited over but seeing the hate for the new album is depressing. If it is as bad as ppl are syaiing, what the happened to Liz?
Doug Wolk said that this was the biggest betrayal of talent in his indie rock generation --- is the album really that bad?
― H (Heruy), Saturday, 3 May 2003 02:12 (twenty-one years ago) link
R.I.P.
― Venus Glow (1411), Saturday, 3 May 2003 03:02 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Saturday, 3 May 2003 03:09 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Aaron A., Saturday, 3 May 2003 03:16 (twenty-one years ago) link
CBGB/OMFUG T or not, it ain't gonna happen anytime soon.
V
― V (1411), Saturday, 3 May 2003 04:07 (twenty-one years ago) link
I thought Douglas Wolk was just exaggerating for effect, but he wasn't: this is an artistic betrayal of staggering proportions. Listening to it scares me, because I recognize that voice as superficially belonging to Liz Phair but I can't hear her on this album anywhere. It's Invasion of the Body Snatchers: The Album. And it's not the hi-gloss production or the Matrix songwriting credits that's at fault so much as the lyrics.
― Nick Mirov (nick), Saturday, 3 May 2003 05:35 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Sam J. (samjeff), Saturday, 3 May 2003 05:51 (twenty-one years ago) link
It's sad that Liz has resorted to stealing from Maya Angelou's poetry.
― Ernest P. (ernestp), Saturday, 3 May 2003 14:33 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Saturday, 3 May 2003 15:37 (twenty-one years ago) link
"I want to play Xbox on your floorSay hi to your roommate who's next doorYou don't have a dime, but I don't mindWho gives a damn
Your record collection don't existYou don't even know who Liz Phair is"
Never thought she was all that great, anyway. Only bought Exile in Guyville when it came out because I didn't know better. I don't feel as betrayed as some of her more rabid fans might, but I know a doublecross when I see one.
― paul cox (paul cox), Saturday, 3 May 2003 16:25 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 3 May 2003 16:32 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Saturday, 3 May 2003 19:15 (twenty-one years ago) link
― teeny (teeny), Saturday, 3 May 2003 20:14 (twenty-one years ago) link
Sterling is the resurrection? Sterling is the life?
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 3 May 2003 20:28 (twenty-one years ago) link
I am extraordinary, if you'd ever get to know me
you wait around years for something this awful, thank you thank you Liz Phair
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Saturday, 3 May 2003 21:09 (twenty-one years ago) link
Does anyone know of a better break up song than "Divorce Song"? "And it's also true that I lost the map". Amen.
― scott m (mcd), Sunday, 4 May 2003 00:13 (twenty-one years ago) link
-- don weiner
Sorry to say it, but it sounds like another last gasp from an artist in the throes of deep block or "deeply out of wad" syndrome.
― Roman (Roman), Sunday, 4 May 2003 00:33 (twenty-one years ago) link
am I the only one who notices that Pink sounds like Liz Phair on "Get the Party Started"?
and I quite like extraordinary -- certainly more hooky & meandering than Avril &c.
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Monday, 5 May 2003 19:47 (twenty-one years ago) link
Whoa -- that to my mind spells contradiction. I mean, I like the concept if it happens...
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 5 May 2003 19:52 (twenty-one years ago) link
― V (1411), Monday, 5 May 2003 20:29 (twenty-one years ago) link
Then again I've been known to do this myself.
I was always told my girls in college that Exile meant a lot to them during their formative years blah blah. Is that true? I remember it being one of the few pieces of indie rock (broadly defined) that was played on the Adult Album Alternative station in Chicago, and I remember thinking it was pretty unexceptional.
― amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 5 May 2003 21:36 (twenty-one years ago) link
But I like the idea of having a squad of girls who had my back in college.
― amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 5 May 2003 21:37 (twenty-one years ago) link
I thought that was said about Alex Chilton?
― nickn, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 22:44 (eleven years ago) link
Greil Marcus re: Rod Stewart iirc
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 22:45 (eleven years ago) link
Google says you're right, but I remember reading that said about Chilton many years ago.
― nickn, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 22:46 (eleven years ago) link
The beginning of this thread is still so gross to me.
― I found him in a Bon Ton ad (Nicole), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 22:48 (eleven years ago) link
we'll always butthurt fans
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 22:49 (eleven years ago) link
we'll always have butthurt fans too
Are there any fervent Liz Phair fans remaining? Seems like every fan horrified by the realization that um actually she was Sheryl Crow -- that EIG represents the inevitability of recording with no money instead of an ethos -- is a dumb straight guy.
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 22:53 (eleven years ago) link
fervent FEMALE fans, I should say. I need dinner.
Seems like every fan horrified by the realization that um actually she was Sheryl Crow -- that EIG represents the inevitability of recording with no money instead of an ethos -- is a dumb straight guy.
I want to take issue with this statement, but I just haven't listened closely enough to her later albums to feel like I'd be on solid footing. (Never even heard the one that Christgau loved and everyone else compared to Avril Lavigne.) I do know that there's nothing on albums #2 and #3 that come anywhere close to "Divorce Song" or "Fuck and Run" for me--some good songs, but not close. None of which rules out me being a dumb straight guy.
― clemenza, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 00:08 (eleven years ago) link
Agreed on Whip-Smart but WCSE is close to her best album: a Sheryl Crow production with Liz Phair songs. I can't listen to "Divorce Song" without thinking of "Go On Ahead," "Uncle Alvarez," or at half a dozen WCSE tracks as sequels.
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 00:16 (eleven years ago) link
i.e. the continuing story of a self-aware woman who likes sex but loves her son and is trying to fit into situations she's outgrown
btw clem I'm reacting to the angst expressed at the beginning of this thread, started in 2003. I'm surprised that even in 2003 fans couldn't see that a novelty song about hot white cum was the means by which Liz Phair scored her biggest commercial coup.
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 00:20 (eleven years ago) link
oddly, i think what i find disappointing about every album after 'exile' is how confident and professional her singing sounds. what i like about 'exile' is how tuneless and weird she sounds on almost every track, like the almost drone-y tone she gets on 'flower.' i love those unexpected phrasings and random emphases: "and BOXED it up and buried it in the GROUND."
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 00:26 (eleven years ago) link
Hmm. She still has an uncertain relation to pitch up until 2005 to my ears.
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 00:27 (eleven years ago) link
I'll grab WCSE for the car tomorrow. When Scott and I did that Facebook thing, there was some interesting commentary on how severe the backlash against her was. (You just quoted one of my favourite lines from "Divorce Song"--that and "I guess I already am."
― clemenza, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 00:30 (eleven years ago) link
Give it another shot.
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 00:44 (eleven years ago) link
i repped for the 2003 album lots when it came out, but i can't really get into most of it anymore. i do like most of 'whip-smart.'
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 01:09 (eleven years ago) link
I was going to do ‘Funstyle,’ ‘Funnerstyle’ and 'Funnererstyle'
just... wow
― boxedjoy, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 11:00 (eleven years ago) link
I dunno, I've never known any artist ever that had more people go "I know exactly what she *should* be doing, and I will immediately stop her from doing what she *is* doing in favour of my vision" than her.
Fairly, unfairly, correctly or no, I have no idea, I only heard "Fuck and Run" by her...
― Mark G, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 11:16 (eleven years ago) link
I keep waiting for her to do the inevitable kids album. The press release and reviews would pretty much write themselves.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qg055XfRnzY
― dlp9001, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 13:09 (eleven years ago) link
Ten years since the release of the eponymous album. Fabulous interview: http://noisey.vice.com/blog/the-other-liz-phair-anniversary-this-week
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 28 June 2013 15:26 (ten years ago) link
I remember my A&R guy was Ron Laffitte and he was like, “Well, what would you do differently?”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tp9PGzGroMc
― This amigurumi Jamaican octopus is ready to chill with you (Phil D.), Friday, 28 June 2013 15:34 (ten years ago) link
Good interview! Got me to check that record out for the first time. Really baffling that so much fuss was made - it's not a dramatic shift away from whitechocolatespaceegg and despite some kind of wince-inducing production choices here and there, and a couple of plodding numbers that never find a shape ("Friend of Mine") the songwriting totally feels like vintage Liz.
― Doctor Casino, Saturday, 29 June 2013 03:11 (ten years ago) link
"Why Can't I?" is surprisingly durable.
― Mr. Mojo Readin' (C. Grisso/McCain), Saturday, 29 June 2013 07:25 (ten years ago) link
My favorite track from that album is Red Light Fever.
― how's life, Saturday, 29 June 2013 11:13 (ten years ago) link
I interviewed her after this album came out and she told me she was just happy to hear her songs played at the gym.
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 29 June 2013 13:58 (ten years ago) link
actually, Funstyle is great.
― he not like the banana (Stevie D(eux)), Wednesday, 17 May 2017 03:07 (seven years ago) link