max roach - percussion bitter sweet
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Monday, 24 January 2011 03:54 (thirteen years ago) link
huh never even heard of Claude Delcloo, much less that particular record. but I am a huge fan of Actuel's vinyl reissues of that era of stuff (AEC, Shepp, etc.)
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 24 January 2011 03:55 (thirteen years ago) link
Kenny G = Kenny Gorelick.
You can see why he went with just "G"
― hey boys, suppers on me, our video just went bacterial (Hurting 2), Monday, 24 January 2011 05:27 (thirteen years ago) link
Hey, I think I heard that Claude Decloo on the radio once and missed what it was, and I've been trying to figure it out since then. It's pretty great.
― hey boys, suppers on me, our video just went bacterial (Hurting 2), Monday, 24 January 2011 05:39 (thirteen years ago) link
in 2009/2010 i picked up more jazz than anything else.
predominantly this involved the miles davis legacy reissues, and a lot of RVG reissues as they were cheap-n-cheerful in my local fopp.while i have read the comments elsewhere re the RVG reissues the simple fact of the matter is that they are readily available, and for newcomers like me, are an easy way-in to discovering what area of jazz suits my requirements the best.as for recommendations ?
well, i fell hard for the in a silent way > on the corner era of davis, which basically provides an album for every mood.not ventured too much into the pre IASW stuff other than a kind of blue of course.
but my faves seems to all hang off donald byrd; from his groovy funk of royal flush and the cat walk, to the experimental but sublime beauty of a new perspective, before he delved into the more fusion styled electric byrd, these albums are never far from the stereo.
and to think i had decided that in 2011 i was going to try and get back into the modern world, as this stuff can become very addictive once you tune in, so threads like this can become very dangerous !
― mark e, Monday, 24 January 2011 09:47 (thirteen years ago) link
true!
― bert, Monday, 24 January 2011 11:52 (thirteen years ago) link
mark u need to hear the second quintet stiff just prior to in a silent way. Best. Music. Ever
― bert, Monday, 24 January 2011 11:54 (thirteen years ago) link
i actually forgot, i have gone back from IASW : filles de .. & miles in the sky
clearly i need to spend more time with them.
― mark e, Monday, 24 January 2011 11:59 (thirteen years ago) link
I wrote about tenor saxophonist Ike Quebec on BurningAmbulance.com today. He was a 1940s guy who made a comeback, recording five albums' worth of material in 1961 and 1962, then died of cancer. All his albums are worth hearing, as is a two-CD compilation of non-album jukebox singles. Here's the link.
― that's not funny. (unperson), Monday, 24 January 2011 13:09 (thirteen years ago) link
ILXOR just buy http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Columbia-Album-Collection/dp/B00305GXWG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1295875874&sr=8-1
― Algerian Goalkeeper, Monday, 24 January 2011 13:31 (thirteen years ago) link
that's not a bad deal, actually... 52 albums, $300, something like $5 and change per album O_O
― the new mordant & zingy ilxor persona (ilxor), Monday, 24 January 2011 14:48 (thirteen years ago) link
i got it last year for xmas (2009 xmas) £70 i think the price was.
― Algerian Goalkeeper, Monday, 24 January 2011 14:51 (thirteen years ago) link
it's £126 in the UK now http://www.play.com/Music/CD/4-/11876982/The-Complete-Columbia-Album-Collection/Product.html?ptsl=1&ob=Price&fb=0&searchstring=miles+davis+complete&searchtype=allproducts&searchsource=0&urlrefer=search
― Algerian Goalkeeper, Monday, 24 January 2011 14:52 (thirteen years ago) link
or £394 from Amazon LOL
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Complete-Columbia-Album-Collection-Miles/dp/B00305GXWG/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1295880815&sr=8-3
― Algerian Goalkeeper, Monday, 24 January 2011 14:54 (thirteen years ago) link
Think I'll go with the last option there. ;)
― the new mordant & zingy ilxor persona (ilxor), Monday, 24 January 2011 15:07 (thirteen years ago) link
don't those all come in cardboard sleeves that come apart ?a local shop had a bunch of them in a cut-out promo drawer and just picking them up to look @ condition of the sleeve/cd resulted in the sleeve coming apart where the glue had been applied.
― mark e, Monday, 24 January 2011 15:12 (thirteen years ago) link
They fixed that problem I think - but yeah, check out all the one-star reviews at http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002EOF7U8/ref=s9_simh_gw_p15_d0_i2
― Can your monkey do the Bot? (seandalai), Monday, 24 January 2011 15:15 (thirteen years ago) link
I'm happy just picking up all the Miles albums one by one (they're cheap used...) and taking my time, I think. Shelled out $3 for Water Babies over the weekend, which I don't think anyone's recommended thus far. Looks like mid '70s Miles. Thoughts?
― the new mordant & zingy ilxor persona (ilxor), Monday, 24 January 2011 15:46 (thirteen years ago) link
My initial thought was "Whoa -- that cover art would NOT fly in 2011..."
I love Water Babies (it's actually a 60s album). It's not as canonical, but it's got good examples of both the 60s style and the transition into the more rock-influenced stuff.
― hey boys, suppers on me, our video just went bacterial (Hurting 2), Monday, 24 January 2011 15:47 (thirteen years ago) link
The last track (Dual Mr. Anthony Tillman Williams Process) is one of my favorite Miles things.
― hey boys, suppers on me, our video just went bacterial (Hurting 2), Monday, 24 January 2011 15:48 (thirteen years ago) link
Yeah, Water Babies is totally overlooked 'cause it was recorded in '67/'68 but not released until '76, when Miles was in his hermit phase.
― that's not funny. (unperson), Monday, 24 January 2011 16:12 (thirteen years ago) link
not released until '76
Ah, so that explains why I thought it was mid '70s -- checked the copyright date on the CD.
― the new mordant & zingy ilxor persona (ilxor), Monday, 24 January 2011 16:12 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah water babies is actually my fave 60s era record
― HOOS the master?? STEEN NUFF (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 24 January 2011 22:38 (thirteen years ago) link
Listening to Weather Report's Live in Tokyo (2CD version) for the first time today. If, like me, you think of Weather Report as the makers of shitty, "funky" prog-fuzak, you really need to hear this, Skronky and rockin' - it's like Miles circa 1970 (Live-Evil, not Jack Johnson), minus Miles, basically.
― that's not funny. (unperson), Tuesday, 25 January 2011 18:30 (thirteen years ago) link
If, like me, you think of Weather Report as the makers of shitty, "funky" prog-fuzak, you really need to hear this
Lol - ok, i'll take the bait.
― sarahel, Tuesday, 25 January 2011 18:37 (thirteen years ago) link
i do kinda love the phrase "prog-fuzak"
― HOOS the master?? STEEN NUFF (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 26 January 2011 00:07 (thirteen years ago) link
would also really stump for weather report capo joe zawinul's self-titled debut (i think?) album....recommended if you like "in a silent way" by miles
jaco sux tho
― smang a goon (get it on) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 26 January 2011 00:09 (thirteen years ago) link
to the experimental but sublime beauty of a new perspective
omg this album. so awesome
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 26 January 2011 00:12 (thirteen years ago) link
that would be a way better title
― j., Wednesday, 26 January 2011 06:25 (thirteen years ago) link
Guys I will post my impressions of some more jazz albums soon. I've heard about a half-dozen things I've enjoyed once apiece, really need to sit down and sink my teeth into one of them in more depth... there's so much to hear!
― the new mordant & zingy ilxor persona (ilxor), Wednesday, 26 January 2011 17:15 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah this thread has kinda gone nuts since yr last post afaik
― HOOS the master?? STEEN NUFF (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 26 January 2011 21:47 (thirteen years ago) link
YOU NEED TO LISTEN TO IT ALL NOW[but srsly, don't get burnt out on it, take it slow, feel the vibrations]
― tylerw, Wednesday, 26 January 2011 21:49 (thirteen years ago) link
Ornette Coleman – The Shape of Jazz to Come (1959)
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/516itKL5IwL._SL500_AA300_.jpg
I’ve picked up a dozen or so jazz albums in the last week or so, most of them recommendations from this thread, and given many of them a cursory listen (with varying degrees of intrigue, which I’ll get to in time). This album by Ornette Coleman immediately bowled me over, though, and gets better with each spin.
I’ve heard various asides about this album’s significance over the year, mainly that it’s thought of as a “blueprint” for free jazz, or a groundbreaking record of sorts, due to the lack of melodic structure underneath the sax and trumpet parts (hope I’m somewhat on target with that...), and I can hear the appeal. Ornette’s playing doesn’t feel tied down to anything because I’m not hearing anything that could possibly hold it back. The bass and drum parts provide a sense of rhythm, but nothing melodic to instruct Ornette what to play, which scales to follow, or where to take each of these pieces.
One of the biggest things that stands out about this album is the interplay between Ornette’s sax and Don Cherry’s trumpet playing (had to check out the liners to get his name). I hear them often playing essentially the same parts but not quite in sync, one of them coming onto a note, or series of notes, just a split-second before the other, which I find wonderfully pleasing and exciting. Occasionally, one of them takes center stage. I find the playing extremely varied in mood as well: for example, the frantic and spazzy runs on “Eventually” followed by the nearly 10 minutes of peace on “Peace” -- no better title for that tune, surely!
I’m guessing due to the overlapping trumpet and sax parts that The Shape of Jazz to Come was written before it was played, but I do get an overwhelming sense of improvisation, exploration and freedom in Ornette’s playing here. It doesn’t sound like he’s reading sheet music while playing, just closing his eyes and then playing what comes to him in the moment.
Whatever the case, I absolutely love this album. Love it love it love it. More, please!
Rating: ✰✰✰✰✰
― the new mordant & zingy ilxor persona (ilxor), Friday, 28 January 2011 16:55 (thirteen years ago) link
ilxor, in most jazz there is a written "head" or melody that the melodic instruments play together usually at the beginning and end of a song, and then a set of chord changes they improvise over. Ornette's move was to keep that "head" but to remove the chord changes. So you're right that at the beginning and end they're playing a written part, but after that they're improvising and in a looser/freer way than on almost all jazz records up to that point.
― hey boys, suppers on me, our video just went bacterial (Hurting 2), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:00 (thirteen years ago) link
That makes sense, kinda... at some point I'll clearly need to read up and understand music and jazz theory a bit more.
― the new mordant & zingy ilxor persona (ilxor), Friday, 28 January 2011 18:29 (thirteen years ago) link
lol, tbh, you could read ornette's explanations of these things for a decade and not really decode what he's talking about. His interviews are fun to read, but they are pretty out there.
― tylerw, Friday, 28 January 2011 18:34 (thirteen years ago) link
like this:The key represents the scale that you’re shooting but it doesn’t represent the quality of how long it takes to get rid of the notes of the key that you’re in. For some reason there’s at least, I would say, five notes that is always free of some key, and because of that it kind of slows down what we call improvising because, the improvising is the name of the key but the notes are different than the key. For instance what I’m trying to say about they key of the notes. When you’re shooting, when you’re playing within the rules, it’s not the same thing as when you’re playing the sound. Because the sound is mostly dominated by the name of the key that you’re in. But, if you’re in the key of C, you know, there’s not a C sharp and there’s not a B flat. So all of those things have something to do with how you transform, what I would say has something to do with the tonic. And transposing things from a dominant seventh to a fourth or a fifth or a sixth like that, that doesn’t have anything to do with nothing but your brain. Everything else has something to do with your eyes and your ears.that's actually one of the more straightforward quotes
― tylerw, Friday, 28 January 2011 18:36 (thirteen years ago) link
hurting otm
― bows don't kill people, arrows do (Jordan), Friday, 28 January 2011 18:38 (thirteen years ago) link
Ornette is one of my favorite interview subjects ever
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 18:43 (thirteen years ago) link
Anyone seen the Derrida interviews Coleman thing?
http://itself.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/theotherslanguage.pdf
― emil.y, Friday, 28 January 2011 18:45 (thirteen years ago) link
I had never really gotten into Ornette until a few years ago (got to see him play at the Masonic Hall too, which was amazing) but yeah in a weird way I was taken aback by how straightforward a lot of the early stuff is. I didn't immediately understand why this was seen as such a big break - it certainly doesn't sound as "free" as, say, Ascension or Free Jazz. a lot of it is really quite restrained and pretty. and he DOES almost invariably stick to the format of head-improvised section-head, whereas originally I was expecting stuff that didn't even have that kind of rudimentary structure.
very inventive though, have come to love this stuff. it really grabs yr attention.
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 18:46 (thirteen years ago) link
no! my head sorta hurts just seeing the words "Derrida interviews Coleman" xpost
― tylerw, Friday, 28 January 2011 18:46 (thirteen years ago) link
my favorite part of ornette's thing is the melodies
― bows don't kill people, arrows do (Jordan), Friday, 28 January 2011 18:52 (thirteen years ago) link
Been looking up some of you guys' recommendations. Looks like this one may be a bit hard to come across on CD...
World Galaxy by Alice Coltrane (Audio CD - 2004) - Import4 new from $89.972 used from $171.40
4 new from $89.972 used from $171.40
O_O
― the new mordant & zingy ilxor persona (ilxor), Friday, 28 January 2011 18:57 (thirteen years ago) link
Just counted... I have 160 distinct album recommendations from this thread. Mind = blown. Thanks everyone!!
― the new mordant & zingy ilxor persona (ilxor), Friday, 28 January 2011 19:25 (thirteen years ago) link
Now, excuse me while I post a PayPal "Donate to ilxor's jazz buying fund" button. ;)
mm I can upload World Galaxy somewhere for you
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 20:01 (thirteen years ago) link
― bows don't kill people, arrows do (Jordan), Friday, January 28, 2011 1:52 PM Bookmark
Mine too. (1) they are really pretty and (2) they contain all these little 'jokes' about jazz imo. I mean his music is very, very funny if you've listened to enough jazz, because he kind of punctures cliches.
― hey boys, suppers on me, our video just went bacterial (Hurting 2), Friday, 28 January 2011 20:05 (thirteen years ago) link
The simplest way to explain Ornette (and it's super-reductive but basically true) is that he improvises based on the melody, not based on the chords. So his solos often sound like a little kid singing a song to himself that he's making up on the spot. (I think this is a major reason why little kids tend to like Ornette's music.)
― that's not funny. (unperson), Friday, 28 January 2011 20:15 (thirteen years ago) link