Anticipate Ghostface's "Apollo Kids"

Both the Dilla joints on there are dope, whether he has a corny death cult or not.

to a dilla stan two great tastes automatically taste good together when one is j dilla

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I have never met a Nas stan

out here nobody gives a fuck about him

nas stans afaik only exist on the internet

rev dilla stans are everywhere cmon

there's dilla stans here iirc. Nas stans = not anymore

anyway deej I am genuinely curious how you would characterize Ghost's "schtick" cuz imho any accurate estimation would have to include like 4 or 5 fairly distinct approaches. like, yes, he may have a schtick but its a fairly versatile one.

I'm not denying the existence of Dilla stans, but you are arguing against them instead of the people itt.

the point is that "rhyming over donut instrumentals...as a sop to h-h heads" is rong

i'm a total dilla stan and whip u w/ a strap is the second best thing on fishscale

^^^

agree that both Dilla tracks - but especially Whip You With A Strap - are album highlights

and just two minutes long.

the point is that "rhyming over donut instrumentals...as a sop to h-h heads" is rong

― zvookster, Tuesday, January 4, 2011 11:16 AM (24 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

by the time this dropped it really wasnt any more

youre thinking of like circa 2000

i mean what hip hop head hates on dilla in 2010, really

2006 it was already over

so yr issue isn't that it was a sop just that it was past it's sell-by date? I don't get it. make sense man

Those beats were always intended for Fishscale even before Donuts was released.

what?? no im responding to zvookster arguing that 'sops to hip hop heads' wouldnt include j dilla which by 2006 was not really true any more

when someone who might own a Wild Nothings album gets hip to a rapper, deej will be there to call it corny

j dilla changed my tshirt stans are corny to lots of people whiney

well he wasn't rhyming over donut instruments, he had jay dee making beats for him then he died and the whole death cult thing happened so it wasn't really a sop either. they were probably fairly cheap decent beats.

Yeah, he was trying to get some of that corny death cult money by getting beats from him when he was still alive. That's fucking logical.

i dont think they rank w/ dilla's best by any means. and i dont think they make sense as tracks that 'fit' ghost's style either

i didnt say anything about 'death cult' you herbs did

ghost totally has a raw, 80s streak, and dilla/doom beats are the tinny, tense, subway-listen heir to that style

i agree it's more true of 2000 but the real canonization was post-donuts whereas ghost was already working with him

deej u said "rapping over donuts instruments" so...

fishscale is just not that good an album imo. whats corny isnt 'who likes it' its that its not good but is praised like its a classic & the only reason i can see someone calling it a classic is bcuz 'classic' artists like pete rock & dilla, who get the kind of auteur's blind adoration hip hop heads are into, produce some mediocre tracks on it

i agree it's more true of 2000 but the real canonization was post-donuts whereas ghost was already working with him

deej u said "rapping over donuts instruments" so...

― zvookster, Tuesday, January 4, 2011 11:48 AM (13 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

they are instrumentals
that were also on donuts

oh for fuck's sake, guys, let's not make this a sequel to the Diddy and Kanye in which the same three people fight over the same stupid shit.

lol deej

i didnt say anything about 'death cult' you herbs did

― ich bin ein ilxor (deej), Tuesday, January 4, 2011 9:46 AM Bookmark

You used ever-so-slightly different language to describe the exact same phenomenon, yes.

I don't think Fishscale's as good as Pretty Toney fwiw. deej may be right about it's adoration having to do with it's producers (why'd you leave MF Doom off yr list deej?) but there is a weird kind of strawmanning going on implying that you know people don't actually LIKE the album, they are just fronting cuz the producers have "coolness" cred or something. which is never a good look deej. argue about the music, the details, the specifics on their own merits, it's more defensible.

rmde at deej

shakey otm

I mean it may very well be the case that Fishscale's sense of importance is augmented by the fact that Ghost worked with a bunch of producers - Doom, Dilla, Pete Rock - that tons of hip hop heads like to listen to. (as opposed to Anthony 'Acid' Caputo)

The best songs on Fishscale aren't the ones by name producers anyway.

seriously, deej, as much as you make fun of corny indie fuxxors your constant instistance that 'street rap' is the only worthy shit out there is worse than a vivalavinyl poster calling cornball on In The Red Records or something. You have that street-level, under-underground, losing-my-edge obsessions of metal dudes who wanna be kvlt, but just replace like Bone Awl records with Alley Boy

in short, Dilla is dope, stfu

I first owned Fishscale as a download, which I listened to for months without seeing credits. I just loved it because almost every track offered a beat or a rhyme I wasn't expecting. I hadn't heard TPTA though, and in hindsight it's probably better, but I don't know what Pete Rock and DOOM had to do with my love in the first place.

seriously, deej, as much as you make fun of corny indie fuxxors your constant instistance that 'street rap' is the only worthy shit out there is worse than a vivalavinyl poster calling cornball on In The Red Records or something. You have that street-level, under-underground, losing-my-edge obsessions of metal dudes who wanna be kvlt, but just replace like Bone Awl records with Alley Boy

― darwin deej (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, January 4, 2011 11:53 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i dont do this u idiot

you obviously pay zero attention to my writing or posts if u think thats what im about

it's really not that complicated. Ghostface made a record, Fishscale, with a bunch of well-known and well-loved producers. Everybody brought their A-game, and a lot of people liked the results (although not, incidentally, as many people as bought Supreme Clientele, and not as many as bought Ironman). There is really no mystery here. The implication that stans somehow adore the album simply because those producers names are on it and not because they actually enjoy the songs is just strawmanning bullshit.

xp

& i know more of dilla's catalog & have been listening to him longer than your bandwagon azz, xps to whiney

it's really not that complicated. Ghostface made a record, Fishscale, with a bunch of well-known and well-loved producers. Everybody brought their A-game, and a lot of people liked the results (although not, incidentally, as many people as bought Supreme Clientele, and not as many as bought Ironman). There is really no mystery here. The implication that stans somehow adore the album simply because those producers names are on it and not because they actually enjoy the songs is just strawmanning bullshit.

xp

― assorted curses (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, January 4, 2011 11:57 AM (20 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

nah i just think stans are willing to put up w/ mediocre product from their favorite brand names

& i know more of dilla's catalog & have been listening to him longer than your bandwagon azz, xps to whiney

― ich bin ein ilxor (deej), Tuesday, January 4, 2011 12:57 PM (39 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

ORLY?

I hadn't heard TPTA though, and in hindsight it's probably better

wait wait alf didn't u tear me a new one when i was new here for saying stylus was mad herbish for rating fishscale over supreme clientele?

i mean, fishscale is so all-over-the-place sonically, the only thing uniting pete rock, doom & dilla is audience -- certainly there are few sonic similarities. it makes the record disjointed, and even tho there are some excellent tracks (like 'back like that' which again would make more sense on pretty toney) the sum is less than the individual parts.