xpost. OK, I get your point now. I don't see it as subjectivity vs fact but yeah, it's hard not to get swept up in the moment, whether that's a general cultural mood or just the force of your own initial reactions. I'm not sure whether later, more distanced reactions are any more precise or genuine though - heat-of-the-moment can be genuine even if you later row back a little.
― The baby boomers have defined everything once and for all (Dorianlynskey), Monday, December 13, 2010 10:20 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark
i think i tend to get more from reviews that tell me something that i, too, see in the record, then discuss how those things function, whether for good or bad. if a writer is describing something that i dont hear -- after reading it & giving it another shot to hear that particular characteristic -- especially when it seems like the writer is involved in a partisan project to convince me of its cultural value / lack thereof -- im probably not going to be very into that review. im less interested in the war between thumbs up vs. thumbs down.
this goes for whether i like or dont like or am ambivalent about a record, i think
― lotta diamonds ... but prolly more display names (deej), Monday, 13 December 2010 16:28 (thirteen years ago) link
^^^i might be overstating things a bit here, not sure, have 2 reflect
― lotta diamonds ... but prolly more display names (deej), Monday, 13 December 2010 16:29 (thirteen years ago) link
i find the idea that opinions are only genuine if they're somewhat tempered to be really odd. is this a US/UK divide? i remember back in the stylus jukebox days, all the US writers would hand out marks between 5 and 7, for EVERYTHING, whereas in the UK version you were assured every week of multiple 0s and 10s.
― lex lex lex lex lex on the track BOW (lex pretend), Monday, 13 December 2010 16:30 (thirteen years ago) link
a partisan project
every piece of criticism is a "partisan project" o_0
― lex lex lex lex lex on the track BOW (lex pretend), Monday, 13 December 2010 16:31 (thirteen years ago) link
every time i write a review, damn str8 i'm trying to convince the reader of an album or artist's cultural import/lack thereof
i think i tend to get more from reviews that tell me something that i, too, see in the record, then discuss how those things function, whether for good or bad.
^^ caveat that sometimes they can open up something i hadnt heard originally, but do on re-listening
― lotta diamonds ... but prolly more display names (deej), Monday, 13 December 2010 16:32 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah but imo insight trumps all
if a writer is describing something that i dont hear -- after reading it & giving it another shot to hear that particular characteristic -- especially when it seems like the writer is involved in a partisan project to convince me of its cultural value / lack thereof -- im probably not going to be very into that review gonna call that writer dishonest
fixed that for you
― deej me how to whiney (dayo), Monday, 13 December 2010 16:35 (thirteen years ago) link
well, if he misrepresents something, yes
― lotta diamonds ... but prolly more display names (deej), Monday, 13 December 2010 16:37 (thirteen years ago) link
― lex lex lex lex lex on the track BOW (lex pretend), Monday, December 13, 2010 10:31 AM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
even if it means saying a kanye record sounds just like his old ones, when this is blatantly not the case?
― lotta diamonds ... but prolly more display names (deej), Monday, 13 December 2010 16:38 (thirteen years ago) link
*marks bingo card*
― deej me how to whiney (dayo), Monday, 13 December 2010 16:38 (thirteen years ago) link
deej for all the time you seem to have spent thinking about my review, i'm not convinced you've actually read it, or indeed clocked that it's a 150-word capsule review and therefore by its very nature not going to go into great detail or justifications
xp wtf have i "misrepresented"? are you seriously going to try to have this argument again? why don't you just come out with it and call me a liar? this, fyi, is the point at which i would dump a drink on your head if you were saying this shit to me IRL
― lex lex lex lex lex on the track BOW (lex pretend), Monday, 13 December 2010 16:39 (thirteen years ago) link
in your opinion
for chrissakes we covered this already, both al and i actually took the time to explain this to you in detail. are you this fucking annoying IRL?
― lex lex lex lex lex on the track BOW (lex pretend), Monday, 13 December 2010 16:40 (thirteen years ago) link
well, im going to stop arguing this now because lex is threatening to dump drinks on me & dayo is trolling w/ typical uselessness
― lotta diamonds ... but prolly more display names (deej), Monday, 13 December 2010 16:41 (thirteen years ago) link
al's argument was far more nuanced -- he suggested that the album based itself on ideas from older kanye tracks but what was added was not worthwhile & in fact made the songs worse -- a subtle distinction to you maybe but it makes a diff imo, its not the same as blatantly retreading his older stuff
― lotta diamonds ... but prolly more display names (deej), Monday, 13 December 2010 16:42 (thirteen years ago) link
im going to stop arguing this now
let's fucking hope
― lex lex lex lex lex on the track BOW (lex pretend), Monday, 13 December 2010 16:42 (thirteen years ago) link
he suggested that the album based itself on ideas from older kanye tracks but what was added was not worthwhile & in fact made the songs worse -- a subtle distinction to you maybe but it makes a diff imo, its not the same as blatantly retreading his older stuff
i don't know if you're able to count, but untangling it like this takes up a third of my word count. i'll take using the one word "retread" instead.
― lex lex lex lex lex on the track BOW (lex pretend), Monday, 13 December 2010 16:43 (thirteen years ago) link
if you're calling deej a retard, you spelled it wrong
― TamTam Club (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 13 December 2010 16:47 (thirteen years ago) link
Jesus deej, you just keep going around in circles huh? Were you born with a stumpy left leg?
― irish xmas caek, get that marzipan inta ya (a hoy hoy), Monday, 13 December 2010 16:47 (thirteen years ago) link
done arguing now, just here to lol @ me having the rep for being butthurt when yall are the ones calling me retarded & saying you would throw drinks on me irl
― lotta diamonds ... but prolly more display names (deej), Monday, 13 December 2010 16:49 (thirteen years ago) link
i just sorta lol @ the idea that throwing a drink on someone is a thing that actually happens outside of sitcoms
― kanellos (gbx), Monday, 13 December 2010 16:52 (thirteen years ago) link
*splash*
*beat*
"well that went well"
*laff track*
― kanellos (gbx), Monday, 13 December 2010 16:53 (thirteen years ago) link
i bet lex drinks fancy cocktails so it would at least taste good
― in my world of Hmong ppl (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 13 December 2010 16:53 (thirteen years ago) link
maybe thats how they do in britain. deej is lucky he didn't challenge him to a duel
― TamTam Club (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 13 December 2010 16:54 (thirteen years ago) link
someone link me to lex's review so i can pick a side
someone link me to lex's review so i can pick a side cocktail
― Gus Van Sotosyn (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 13 December 2010 16:55 (thirteen years ago) link
i have thrown drinks over people before! it's very satisfying and ~cathartic~ (though not as much as punching someone in the wisdom tooth)
lol @ the idea that deej wouldn't be 500 times as butthurt if someone called his writing dishonest or deceptive
― lex lex lex lex lex on the track BOW (lex pretend), Monday, 13 December 2010 16:55 (thirteen years ago) link
i wouldn't throw a cocktail obv - too much of a waste, not enough liquid. a pint will suffice.
― lex lex lex lex lex on the track BOW (lex pretend), Monday, 13 December 2010 16:56 (thirteen years ago) link
lex, show me this scandalous review
― TamTam Club (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 13 December 2010 16:56 (thirteen years ago) link
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2010/nov/25/kanye-west-beautiful-dark-twisted-review
― lex lex lex lex lex on the track BOW (lex pretend), Monday, 13 December 2010 16:57 (thirteen years ago) link
its way upthread iirc
i think lex is right in that deej is kinda asking a lot of a capsule review. i have no idea about lex's readership, but i always thought the point of capsule reviews was that you either trusted the critic's taste from experience, or didn't. like "oh, ____ thought it was shit? ok, i'll take a pass for now." too much nuance in something that short kinda defeats the purpose, imo, and can make me wonder why i even bothered reading in the first place. if yr gonna give me something in 150 words or less, i'd rather you stake out a clear position. but that's just me, obv
xps
― kanellos (gbx), Monday, 13 December 2010 16:59 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah, OK, rong as fuck but certainly not deceptive
― TamTam Club (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 13 December 2010 16:59 (thirteen years ago) link
i mean, if lex thinks this sounds like a retread to him, then i think he's out of his fucking mind; but that doesn't exactly mean he's writing it to be intentionally misleading
― TamTam Club (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 13 December 2010 17:01 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah, i don't actually even agree with lex's review, either. plus it's so clearly ~his opinion~ that i really don't understand this whole 'deception/dishonesty' business. there's nothing even remotely approaching objectivity, feigned or not, that you could call out for being misleading! he thinks its shit, and says so!
― kanellos (gbx), Monday, 13 December 2010 17:04 (thirteen years ago) link
see, "rong as fuck", we can have a civil debate on that (and have done for much of this thread); "deceptive" is pretty insulting, and i feel justified in any and all fuck yous/drinks poured that ensue
― lex lex lex lex lex on the track BOW (lex pretend), Monday, 13 December 2010 17:04 (thirteen years ago) link
tbh i found lex's 150 word capsule review way more informative than dombal's 1500 word review
― prolego, Monday, 13 December 2010 17:05 (thirteen years ago) link
it seems like what people think im accusing lex of vs. what im actually trying to communicate are getting lost in translation, so:
i have no problem with lex taking a stand against the album, im not asking him to waver or be wishy-washy or hide his distaste behind 'but it also does this well.' im just saying that a single statement within the review struck me as being blatently inaccurate, led me to the conclusion that either a) lex either isnt listening to the same record i am, or b) he got carried away in wanting to slam the record -- as i admitted sometimes happens to me when im writing reviews too! not claiming to be above it & even gave a personal example! -- and said something that he would have trouble supporting
since then, he argued that this was more a word count issue, which, ok, but it still doesnt mean the same thing & feels like stating something inaccurate.
obv, ppl are reacting strongly to my use of 'honesty' but ive found using that term when dealing w my own writing is helpful in reminding me to be as truthful as possible, to not get caught up in ax-grinding when trying to explain my take on a particular record
― lotta diamonds ... but prolly more display names (deej), Monday, 13 December 2010 17:57 (thirteen years ago) link
in writing this, im not trying to continue the supposed 'clusterfuck' but to communicate as clearly as possible
i apologize if lex took this personally, ive enjoyed his writing plenty of times before & this isnt an attempt to discredit him or something
― lotta diamonds ... but prolly more display names (deej), Monday, 13 December 2010 17:59 (thirteen years ago) link
tl;dr
― i genuinely thought when i first joined that he was the admin (ilxor), Monday, 13 December 2010 18:01 (thirteen years ago) link
j/k -- i kinda think deej is otm here guys
this is thread that other clusterfucks aspire to
― phish in your sleazebag (contenderizer), Monday, 13 December 2010 19:57 (thirteen years ago) link
lex what's your drink of choice?
― in my world of Hmong ppl (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 13 December 2010 20:12 (thirteen years ago) link
no one cares about kanye west anymore y'all! read yr blogs!
― markers, Monday, 13 December 2010 20:13 (thirteen years ago) link
veuve clicquot
xp
― lex lex lex lex lex on the track BOW (lex pretend), Monday, 13 December 2010 20:16 (thirteen years ago) link
or a good long island iced tea
What was that poolside cocktail we ordered?
― Gus Van Sotosyn (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 13 December 2010 20:17 (thirteen years ago) link
or y'know just some decent wine - white if i envisage getting overly drunk on it, red if i envisage being sensible
xp that was basically a champagne mojito, i forget what they called it
― lex lex lex lex lex on the track BOW (lex pretend), Monday, 13 December 2010 20:17 (thirteen years ago) link
a "chelsea" iirc?
"Champagne Mojito" = rejected Gucci Mane-Ne-Yo-Kanye collab.
― Gus Van Sotosyn (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 13 December 2010 20:19 (thirteen years ago) link
long island ice teas are stern mistress IMO, get u twisted.
also...xpost to several lifetimes ago...
i'm now fairly confident he's saying "Trippin' off the power" NOT "Trippin' off the powder"
― in my world of Hmong ppl (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 13 December 2010 20:22 (thirteen years ago) link