Kanye West - Dark Twisted Fantasy

xxp I haven't listened to this Kanye record yet, but yeah I can't imagine it being better than the BB album, which is pretty much unassailable imo.

im trying to figure out why i like this album so much, but i really do! and tbh its probably at least in part cause ilx is being such a big poopy pants about it. the rapping is pretty crappy but i dig the production.

hahaha dombal is the WORST

which is saying something, on pfork

re pillbox's post

kanye album makes much more sense as an album to go out on a limb and give a 10 to, in the sense that it's a major work in the career of the guy that's probably gonna be the enduring pop star of the generation -- the big boi record is great of course but... that guy made like 3 10.0 albums w/ outkast

the only song i like on the album is "hell of a life" fwiw, which seems really out of place - otherwise it's kind of like one massive advert for nicki minaj given how much more enjoyable her "monster" verse is than anything else on it

my main problem is that obviously it's not a perfect album, but even as far as 'perfect' imperfect albums go it's not as good as 'late registration' imo, though it's def a great album

Yeah, does anyone honestly think that SIR LUCIOUS is a 10.0? I can understand giving Fantasy a 10 but it's not a 10, in my opinion. My review, which is being published on Tuesday, gives it a 3.5. I could've rounded up to a 4 but I just couldn't do it. Something about the album rubs me the wrong way.

in the sense that it's a major work in the career of the guy that's probably gonna be the enduring pop star of the generation

actually agree that K will be seen as an ~enduring~ and ~important~ pop star of our generation, blah blah blah, but measuring purely by how own standards this album isn't going to be seen as his major contribution, musically - diff between something happening to be released in what seems to be his imperial period, and something actually being worthy of designated as such

i guess it really matters how much you can or want to separate the album from its 'backstory' -- i guess you could also argue over how possible that even it is, but just on musical merits all take LR over this

dark stupid fantasy isn't even as good as graduation - it's not as good as 808s!!! (and certainly not as "interesting" - for all its whiny faults i did admire the risks K took there.)

sir lucious isn't a 10 either, it's a solid 8, maybe a 7 - i stopped listening to it completely a few months ago for some reason. not sure any 10/10 albums have been released this year tbh. maybe ciara's album, based on what we've heard so far, might be.

oh, I wasn't arguing for the BB record being PERFECT mind, just that I was pretty sure I wasn't going to hear a better hip-hop album this year at this point (and I give slightly more cred to pfork reviews than most seem to around here, but by no means do I take the Kanye score at face value - still, it makes me all the more curious to hear the record now).

the "backstory" makes this album MORE annoying if anything - separating it from that, it's merely boring

best hip-hop albums this year for me = yelawolf and jacka & laroo

^^^^^

ALSO i feel honour-bound to say that as dodgy as pink friday is, it's way less of a disaster than this

God, this album is so boring. I find the critical hosannas somewhat embarrassing.

In these Girl Talk times, an artist who can take disparate musical elements and instead of just mashing them together can subtly combine them in ways we’ve never seen before should be appreciated not scorned.

There are five 9+ records I have heard this year (big boi, yela, starlito, mellow hype and waka) that I wouldn't complain about getting a straight 10. Maybe the Waka for the rubbish guests. But the good Fridays and anything with the jay z monster verse I've heard plus that 8 minute mess runaway doesn't deserve a 5 let alone a 10.

Miss you Kanye and jeez dr4ke, sort it out over there with their rap coverage, if you can call Kanye that.

In these Girl Talk times, an artist who can take disparate musical elements and instead of just mashing them together can subtly combine them in ways we’ve never seen before should be appreciated not scorned.

yes subtly combining disparate musical elements has NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE o_0

"these girl talk times" smh

I mean this is just his worst album by far. It makes LR seem restrained, and that album has way more actual songs and bangers worth listening to.

kanye album makes much more sense as an album to go out on a limb and give a 10 to, in the sense that it's a major work in the career of the guy that's probably gonna be the enduring pop star of the generation -- the big boi record is great of course but... that guy made like 3 10.0 albums w/ outkast

― J0rdan S., Monday, November 22, 2010 5:13 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

yeah if you read the review it's pretty clear that at least half of the score goes to kanye's status in the music world right now, the backstory, the placement of the album in his career arc, etc. etc.

for pfork this is like the opportunity to review, idk, bad when it first came out, and p4k needed to give it a 10 to legitimatize itself as a major music publication, not just a major indie music publication

in other words, feel P4k is more conscious than ever of their role in writing the history for this major world-class musician and is trying to fill that role, even if the album itself is ehhhhhh

I don't understand the thrust of the first 3 paras: Kanye is like Michael Jackson, but not really, OK maybe a little bit, anyway…

Nine paras of context and three about the music doesn't really sell this as a 10.0 record. But dayo's right, that score is more about Pitchfork's self-image than it is about this album. It's like Q giving five stars to Coldplay.

it's funny... in a few years, if not months, it's gonna seem ridiculous to give this album a 10.0 because it's so obviously rife with imperfections, eye rolling moments, straight bad moments of music (i.e. "monster" & "so appalled" drag like all hell, and the characterization in the review of songs as "kanye creates his own award show!" or w/e can't change the fact that i'm still supposed to sit there and listen to two terrible jay-z verses, a cyhi da prynce verse, a superfluous pusha verse etc -- and unfortunately i can't switch the album to the food network like i would during a bad awards show) and the like. obv it's more of a 10.0 given to kanye the persona and kanye the pop star.

if 10.0 didn't exist pitchfork would have to invent it

also i was rolling my eyes a bit at how heavy the review leaned on kanye's twitter -- i don't follow kanye myself so maybe i'm missing some real important moments in his career, but i thought we already went thru this two years ago when kanye started blogging on his website in all caps -- just cuz he's broken his posts up into 140 characters and forced us to read them in reverse order doesn't really mean that it's a notable development as it pertains to this album or really his career in general at the moment

I got no problem with the production on this album, it's fantastic, but the songs themselves are just so...underwritten

like, great sounding fabulous huge sample, then yet another weedy corny kanye navel-gazing rap... repeat 100x

it's funny... in a few years, if not months, it's gonna seem ridiculous to give this album a 10.0 because it's so obviously rife with imperfections, eye rolling moments, straight bad moments of music (i.e. "monster" & "so appalled" drag like all hell, and the characterization in the review of songs as "kanye creates his own award show!" or w/e can't change the fact that i'm still supposed to sit there and listen to two terrible jay-z verses, a cyhi da prynce verse, a superfluous pusha verse etc -- and unfortunately i can't switch the album to the food network like i would during a bad awards show) and the like. obv it's more of a 10.0 given to kanye the persona and kanye the pop star.

― J0rdan S., Monday, November 22, 2010 3:46 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

This is exactly what my review says, basically.

Add to that the shitty 3-minute vocoder wanking on "Runaway," the unecessary reprise of the beat on "Dark Fantasy," THREE VERSES before Raekwon on "Gorgeous" (drags too), Fergie's shitty M.I.A. impersanation, etc etc.

you didn't say anything about the food network?

"gorgeous" has the best verses on the album -- if anything that song gets points for not letting kid cudi rap

I was going to but had to edit it out for space.

And yeah, I agree that Kanye's great on "Gorgeous," but Raekwon feels tacked on, especially after three long 'Ye veses.

Add to that the shitty 3-minute vocoder wanking on "Runaway," the unecessary reprise of the beat on "Dark Fantasy," THREE VERSES before Raekwon on "Gorgeous" (drags too), Fergie's shitty M.I.A. impersanation, etc etc.

― altered boners (rennavate), Monday, November 22, 2010 4:52 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

i don't mind this stuff tbh -- like, i wish that "runaway" built itself into something as good as the second half of "devil in a new dress" but i'm willing to file this stuff under "part and parcel of listening to a kanye album" -- i have more issues w/ "monster" & "so appalled" & like the end of "hell of a life" cuz while i don't mind hearing the superfluous end of kanye's whims, i don't want it to be manifested via people that aren't kanye himself

the thing is, kanyes created songs bigger than his personality. kanye is just not as interesting as all this spilled ink is making him out to be.

i think he's our most interesting pop star, certainly when it comes to conceptualizing pop music itself (gaga would give him a run for his money in the performance aspect) but i found him more interesting back in the "first nigga with a benz and a backpack" days

when he was a contradiction in the world of rap & his self-doubt & self-awareness was filtered thru that, as well as things like his childhood and up bringing

as opposed to his self-doubt & self-awareness being filtered thru... people's reactions to the stupid shit he does

haw, thats an interesting way of putting it. otm

OTM. A lot of this stuff about Kanye being arrogant, insecure, self-questioning, paradoxical, out-of-place was all established by the time of Late Registration. I don't know why he's still getting brownie points for conceding that he sometimes acts like an asshole. There's a lot to like about the new album and one is that the lyrical themes aren't quite as circumscribed as they were on Graduation and 808s, but I still feel he doesn't have many places to go re: fame and haters. The end of the record is almost a confession of that: shit, I don't know what to say about the world beyond my own superstar concerns so here's Gil Scott-Heron from 1970.

And by world I don't mean politics - dumb shit like the government/AIDS line in Gorgeous shows that's not his strong suit - but society, human behaviour, good storytelling, basically anything that isn't about being Kanye West.

This album is still a drag to listen to. He should have called it Homework.

tbh i don't have any problem with either jay-z verse and "monster" is one of my favorite songs this year. "so appalled" definitely drags tho.

feel like the album empties its clip on the first listen

He did the government/ aids thing already on crack music. Seriously, he needs a new idea so fucking much. Get him a marharishi or a gunshot wound, stat.

[don't shoot him.]

is this the first album to get the 10.0 on initial release since pfork became a widely-read publication?

lol at the first post itt

i love listening to "can we get much higher" as this operatic paean to weed

The review picked on a twit that sums up why I am so disappointed with how Kanye's career has gone. He can't be the best ever because he can't dance or sing? Fuck you. You think biggie or rakim or run DMc could? Or outside of hiphop, could the beatles dance? Could Dylan sing? Stevie couldnt dance, he couldnt even fucking see the keys in front of himFuck off with that rockist shit, stop being a bitch and go back to honing your craft.