Blatantly racist songs that have managed to pass under the prejudice-radar

Westwood interviewing Kris/KRS1 .. w'hap?

i know it was addressed way up thread, but didn't the Kinks also play Sun City back in the apartheid era? and catch some flak for it?!? that and "black messiah" are splotches on their reputation, unfortunately.

also, i'm not gonna go surfing through this thread to see if anyone called out Morrissey for his more questionable lyrics/songs ("bengali in platforms" being the most obvious offender here).

xpost Ha, yes, bracing indeed. I came across a 1975 NME review of the Equals headlined "Support Your Local Spades".

My take on Costello at that moment is that he was just a prick who would use racist language that he didn't even believe in order to wind people up, so I'm not saying he emerges covered in glory, just that he was more arsehole than racist imo.

anyway, "flying under the radar" implies kinda furtive as opposed to pretty blatant racist lyrics. so the kinks' "apeman" (with ray davies's silly pseudo-Caribbean accent) or the smiths' "panic" would be more under-the-radar (if indeed either song IS really racist) than either "black messiah" or "bengali in platforms" (where the bigotry is pretty much out in the open).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiu11ovUeDM

For the record, I've got a lot of time for Westwood but... this was bound to happen sooner or later and you can't blame KRSOne really can you?

That pseudo- Caribbean accent was a staple in Brit-rock for a while: Ob-La-Di, Dreadlock Holiday....there's a particularly horrendous example on a Blodwyn Pig album I have somewhere, but since they were fairly under the radar anyway....What was more invidious was the way white British rock bands saw reggae as 'novelty music', to be used in the same way as the 'music hall' colourings that were also a staple. And of course, they were always (wrongly0 confident that they could play it.

Re: the Equals headline above - if you read CSM 'From the Hip' collection, the stunning ease with which racial epithets sprung from the hipster lip then is astounding. Bangs was the same, of course, but recanted honestly and completely.

"Dreadlock Holiday" is pretty fuckin racist. Meant to add it last night.

If it hasn't been mentioned yet....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqITI8ZwR-A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH2P_pVze6s

There's a reprehensible Python track on one of the Secret Policeman's Ball live albums. They, of course, claimed it was ironic, or something, but you only have to hear the audience response to know they were playing to the gallery.

Yeah, but so much of that "cutting edge" footlights/Python/Goodies etc was very "lol gayz" which embarrases them all in retrospect.

elvis also called james brown the n-word according to wiki...also bonnie bramlett rules fuk u elvis...

i really don't buy the "i was trying to offend these hippies" thing either....using powerful words that have really caused pain to ppl that have been oppressed it was you can't imagine as a "tool" in an argument or to be edgy is just as insincere assholish and racist as anything...

wrt to axl: i dunno, i think axl lives pretty close to the bone, i don't think he was playing a role at all..i think he was going back to being a fucked up angry kid from shithole midwest and feeling like an alien in L.A. and scared and lashing out....i think those were his ugly feelings and i don't think he can hide behind a "character" thing...did he try to hide behind that bullshit?

though...in some ways i almost think the elvis costello/patti smith/randy newman shit is worse is some way, there's a sense of smug entitlement to it "listen guys we all know i'm super smart and important so i can't be racist, dig?"....i dunno i might not be expresing it right tho

Costello's standing in the U.S. was bruised for a time when in March 1979, during a drunken argument with Stephen Stills and Bonnie Bramlett in a Columbus, Ohio Holiday Inn bar, the singer referred to James Brown as a "jive-ass nigger", then upped the ante by pronouncing Ray Charles a "blind, ignorant, nigger".[12][13] Costello apologised at a New York City press conference a few days later, claiming that he had been drunk and had been attempting to be obnoxious in order to bring the conversation to a swift conclusion, not anticipating that Bramlett would bring his comments to the press. According to Costello, "it became necessary for me to outrage these people with about the most obnoxious and offensive remarks that I could muster." In his liner notes for the expanded version of Get Happy!!, Costello writes that some time after the incident he had declined an offer to meet Charles out of guilt and embarrassment, though Charles himself had forgiven Costello saying "Drunken talk isn't meant to be printed in the paper." Costello worked extensively in Britain's Rock Against Racism campaign both before and after the incident. The incident inspired his Get Happy!! song "Riot Act."[14]

wish i could find the video for genesis' "illegal alien"

Clapton clearly has genuine heartfelt love for black musicians and black music but he is also clearly and definably racist scum.

Clapton's hatred seems to be directed more towards Asians than towards Africans. Not that it makes it any better.
But has he confirmed his views from back then, ever distanced himself from them? Or ignored them? (the latter is bad enough in itself)

That pseudo- Caribbean accent was a staple in Brit-rock for a while: Ob-La-Di, Dreadlock Holiday....

There was a popular Northern Norwegian 80s band called Banana Airlines who sort of specialized in "rapping" in some sort of broken Norwegian, sounding like the kind of Norwegian immigrants tend to speak when they haven't learned to pronounce the language fluently. To make matters worse, their lyrics were crowded with references to the Sami minority who have lived in Northern Norway for ages, portraying them as drunken, lazy etc.

the day i bought silent shout, i played it while driving to pittsburgh with some friends (i'd already listened to it a couple times by myself). everybody was digging the hell out of the first couple tracks, but when we got to "the captain", vibes got weird. i hadn't previously considered the idea, but suddenly knew what was coming. a good friend, who is chinese, was bummed by the childlike, cod "oriental" vocal affections. i tried to defend the song/band, saying that wasn't really the intent, but suspected that she was right. haven't since been able to listen to that song in quite the same way, though i still love the record, the band, fever ray, etc.

I never even thought that first listening, I thought it was her just trying to sound a little creepier than usual whilst employing her Svedish accent. Call me a fool but I always find a minority in a group of whites tend to find racial insensitivity where there is none.

As mentioned above, Franklin Bruno's 33-1/3 book on "Armed Forces" does a great job of digging under the dirt of the whole Costello incident, and points out quite rightly that it was just as patronizing/wrong/whatever for Bonnie Bramlett, a white woman, to go running to the press as if she were the aggrieved party; and that she was no more or less entitled to claim kinship with black music and musicians than Costello is. As white people, they're both tourists in blues and soul music.

Hmm, then what does that make us (mostly) white folks who keep bringing it up 30 years later?

I mean, if I was in a bar with Ted Leo or Miley Cyrus and they started saying crazy racist shit, even just to get a rise, I'd probably go public with it too.

Can't believe Randy Newman's been lumped in with this lot. Does anybody anywhere really think "Sail Away" is heartfelt sincere rather than a character study? Kevin Bacon playing a paedo != Kevin Bacon is a paedo.

What about if Jeffrey Jones is playing one?

i know it was addressed way up thread, but didn't the Kinks also play Sun City back in the apartheid era? and catch some flak for it?!? that and "black messiah" are splotches on their reputation, unfortunately.

Robert Christgau claimed this to be the case, but the only documentation I've seen is in Christgau's 80's book: "Ray Davies--not the other Kinks--remains on the entertainers register of the U.N. Centre Against Apartheid. He's such a contrary chappy that he probably likes it there." A friend met Dave Davies at a book signing some years ago, and Dave strenuously denied that the Kinks ever played Sun City. The only explanation anyone was able to come up with was that there was supposedly an "R. Davies" (or, I've also heard, a "Ron Davies") on the UN register. To get off the register, musicians had to make a public apology and vow never to play Sun City again (something the O'Jays did and which Linda Ronstadt refused to do -- she went back more than once). I haven't seen anything to indicate that the other Kinks made any such apologies that Ray refused to go along with. No mention of the Kinks is made in the Artists United Against Apartheid Sun City book, which calls out many other artists (Julio Iglesias, Queen, Sinatra, Tina Turner, Ray Charles).

^^^^
There's Ray Davies and his Button Down Brass, charity shop staples....? could he/ they be the offending artist?

...Franklin Bruno's 33-1/3 book on "Armed Forces" does a great job of digging under the dirt of the whole Costello incident, and points out quite rightly that it was just as patronizing/wrong/whatever for Bonnie Bramlett, a white woman, to go running to the press as if she were the aggrieved party...

hogwash. ridiculous to blame the messenger. costello said something foul, and one of the people he said it to told the press, which she had every right to do. people should be called out when they say things like this, and if publicly, then publicly.

I wouldn't say the Cellos' "Rang Tang Ding Dong (I Am the Japanese Sandman)" (my favorite song from the '50s) is racist, but it definitely opens with a mortifying stereotype of its day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKHWUzsvrG8

I'd like to play it over my school's P.A. one morning, but wouldn't dare.

A compilation filled with such stuff:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Pf8Sto3fvMg/SiEfuMcQYTI/AAAAAAAACYY/wQ-0PShQPtI/s400/My+Chinese+Girl+-+(Front).jpg

Warren Smith's "Ubangi Stomp," the Cadets' (and New York Dolls') "Stranded in the Jungle"...you could probably spend an hour or two listing stuff from the '50s, if you really knew the terrain.

Is that the same "Ubangi Stomp" that the Stray Cats did on their first (?) album? Presumably.

They did "Storm the Embassy" too! Can't remember exactly how racist that is.

I'm sure the Stray Cats song would be the same. Just remembered the Cramps' "Jungle Hop" and "The Natives Are Restless," and I bet they had others, too, either covers or their own. But as I'm sure has been pointed out upthread, infantile insensitivity and racism are not, to me, one and the same.

I'm second-guessing my own distinction...Probably Rush Limbaugh fans make the same defense for him that I'm making for the Cellos. It's impossible to read minds, so you sort of go with your instincts as to what's behind the words and funny voices.

america in the 50s was racist as hell (still is), but i think it's mostly naivete that's behind songs like "rang tang ding dong" and "jungle hop".

I don't think relegating entire cultures to high-pitched-voice caricatures and accents and stereotypes can really be grouped in the comfortable "naivete" box

though...in some ways i almost think the elvis costello/patti smith/randy newman shit is worse is some way, there's a sense of smug entitlement to it "listen guys we all know i'm super smart and important so i can't be racist, dig?"....i dunno i might not be expresing it right tho

But in this situation, I don't think it's racism that's bothering you, it's the smug entitlement you're reading into it. And I don't really agree with that--I don't have a problem with white liberal artists dealing with race issues. My objections would be more likely to come up if I disagreed with their message (or I just thought it was bad art). Anyway, if artists can't push at boundries and sometimes come up wrong, who can?

And I'm usually willing to accept the "those were different times" argument. There was a time in the '70s, as the white world began to understand and address our ingrained racism, where the "N" word hadn't yet become The "N" Word of today. Following the lead of black writers, musicians, comedians, etc., in trying to reclaim and defuse the word "nigger," people like Randy Newman, Patti Smith and George Carlin took advantage of that cusp when definitions, restrictions and attitudes were changing. Sure, the same lyrics written now would be received with much more criticism, but in the context of the time period, as racial thought was going through a major evolution, I think these white artists were justified in trying to find new ways of dealing with the subject. In the years to follow the word didn't get defused, but that doesn't invalidate the work that came beforehand.

Can't believe Randy Newman's been lumped in with this lot. Does anybody anywhere really think "Sail Away" is heartfelt sincere rather than a character study?

But remember, there was a minor furor over "Short People." There's always somebody to find offense when you get into touchy topics. I brought up Newman not to claim racism but as an example of how context matters.

i guess that brings up the issue -- that you can kinda view the "stereotypical Chinese/East Asian melody" through - of whether it is "ok" to sample/cover/allude to that earlier naive sensibility (e.g. Jungle Hop) in contemporary times when we "know better"?

I don't think relegating entire cultures to high-pitched-voice caricatures and accents and stereotypes can really be grouped in the comfortable "naivete" box

― aerosmith: the acid house years (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Saturday, November 20, 2010 12:12 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark

i think that all cultures tend to view other cultures as "strange" when they first encounter them, that this exoticizing tendency is "natural" (if you will) and exists in every human culture, to some degree or another. it is only recently that we've come to understand that this kind of thing can be problematic, so yes, i do describe historical examples of this sort of thing as naive and even innocent -- to the extent that they aren't explicitly denigratory/xenophobic, or tied directly to oppression (like "mammy" and "sambo" type caricatures of african americans in the US).

i think that all cultures tend to view other cultures as "strange" when they first encounter them, that this exoticizing tendency is "natural" (if you will) and exists in every human culture, to some degree or another.

Don't think any of those things are givens of "human nature" tbh

This also leads to the common argument about power and powerlessness, and whether or not it was even possible for the Cellos (a black doo-wop group) to be racist in 1957--an argument I have neither the inclination nor stamina to pursue.

xp - Noodle, can you give a historical example of that not being the case?

xpost

I don't think relegating entire cultures to high-pitched-voice caricatures and accents and stereotypes can really be grouped in the comfortable "naivete" box

But you can take that argument too far. While I don't see any argument that could ever justify slavery, I don't think you can fairly say something like "How could those people in 1600 be so unenlightened as to think slavery was OK?" Societies evolve, and there was a time when people wouldn't have been able to conceive of questioning the rightness or wrongness of slavery.

So I can't bring myself to get all upset over the very existence of Al Jolson in blackface or Charlie Chan movies with white actors in the lead. You can (and should) discuss and judge those attitudes in hindsight, but they make the original work invalid.

Don't think any of those things are givens of "human nature" tbh

well, "human nature" is all but impossible to define, therefore difficult (perhaps even pointless) to discuss. that's why i was begging for indulgence in bringing it up in the first place. that said, i do think the tendency to exoticize and even to mock "the other" is so common in human history as to be all but omnipresent. every culture seems to parody the accents, manners and behaviors of those that seem different, and it's only recently that we've come to see anything troubling in this.

yeah I'm not gonna get into it with you I just think "rang tang ding dong" is racist crap no matter how you spin it is all

Societies evolve, and there was a time when people wouldn't have been able to conceive of questioning the rightness or wrongness of slavery.

really? so why didn't the English, the French, or the Germans keep slaves? everybody in the whole damn world knew slavery was bullshit.

Noodle, can you give a historical example of that not being the case?

I can't, offhand, but my problem is that I don't think contenderizer can produce sufficient examples of it always being the case either. In general terms, weren't a lot of indigenous peoples that got fucked over by European colonialism rather too trusting and friendly towards their new friends?

A limited quantity of English kept slaves in the UK I think. Certainly a lot of guys in the colonies with slaves were essentially English anyway.

yeah I'm in over my head on this subject so should stfu but "there was a time when people wouldn't have been able to conceive of questioning the rightness or wrongness of slavery" is historically untrue I think - opposition to slavery goes back a long way iirc & cutting people historical slack is ok as far as it goes but the idea that Americans in the 60s can be given a pass for crap like "rang tang ding dong" is a little much for me

Well yeah obviously the anti-slavery movement in the UK was running thru most of the 18th century and I seem to recall that there was much debate about whether slavery could be legal in the UK, with most of the authorities saying "no"? But even a guy like Wilberforce was anti-slavery for slightly abstract God-bothering reasons more than that he actually wanted some black guys to come and live next door to his cute house on High Street, Hull.

not to digress, but weren't Haiti, Martinique and Guadaloupe (French colonies all) also slave colonies?!?

In general terms, weren't a lot of indigenous peoples that got fucked over by European colonialism rather too trusting and friendly towards their new friends?

― a ticker tape of "must not fuck up" (Noodle Vague), Saturday, November 20, 2010 12:40 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

sure, but that doesn't suggest they didn't make jokes, among themselves, about the clothes, habits and speech of their new friends, at least at first. there's no record, so no way to say for sure, but i suspect they did, at least on occasion.

slavery is a very different issue, where "otherness" is not just mocked, but dehumanized. suppose you could say that it's a sliding scale, but the difference of degree is so profound to make it, in effect, a difference in kind.

I just always wanna suspect those grand totalizing statements I suppose and consider it entirely possible that some societies or cultures are more racist than others.

^ yeah, with you on that. if someone else had made the statement i did, i'd have raised the same objection as you. otoh, i don't see much evidence that any human culture lacks the tendency to exoticize/mock perceived others. i mean, it's a strong tendency in most human beings, regardless of culture, in ways that go well beyond race. we cartoon & mock class, gender, sexual orientation, nationality, styles of dress, appearance, wealth, level of education, religion, etc. it's a product, i think of they way in which we understand the world: via simplification & objectification. we see things, for the most part, not as utterly unique instances, but as members of this or that category of things, and we make a lot of assumptions on a categorical level. this is efficient, but also reductive.

pattern-making