Taylor Swift - Speak Now (Oct 2010) - hype, anticipation &c

I look at my hands and feel sad

smfh

This has been a fascinating couple of days, not least because I'm fascinated -- I write this without condescension, believe me -- by how much of the extradiagetic stuff you guys apparently pay attention to; or, rather, at least entertaining the possibility that her songs are transcriptions of her life. I can't listen that way, especially since, in my experience, that's now how creation works: as soon as you put pen to paper or keys to keyboard, you start to embroider. It's natural.

yup, i agree, but - as much as i think the yahoo guy is reaching w/r/t a few of the songs - what's surprising to me is that taylor swift herself is encouraging us to believe that the songs are transcriptions of her life

I don't know if y'all have already talked about this, but the first two pages of the liner notes are a note from Taylor. I didn't read all of it, but here's an excerpt that's pertinent to some of the stuff going on itt:

These songs are made up of words I didn't say when the moment was right in front of me. These songs are open letters. Each is written with a specific person in mind, telling them what I meant to tell them in person. To the beautiful boy whose heart I broke in December. To my first love who I never thought would be my first heartbreak. To my band. To a mean man I used to be afraid of. To someone who made my world very dark for a while. To a girl who stole something of mine. To someone I forgive for what he said in front of the whole world.

Secondly (no one on the thread is doing this, btw, but my students can't shake the habit) looking for biographical parallels is a fool's errand; it stops analysis, e.g. "`Dear John'" is Taylor's bittersweet farewell to John Mayer." I mean, what does one gain from drawing that conclusion?

Honest question.

― sandra lee, gimme your alcohol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, October 29, 2010 6:52 AM (51 minutes ago) Bookmark

otm, I am very much in your camp of intentional fallacy alfred. one of the cardinal rules of art (or at least my consumption of it) is never trust what the artist says. like you don't need to know leopard skin pill box hat is about edie sedgwick to know that it is an absolutely eviscerating song.

and I really wish wheal dream would investigate some of taylor's back catalog, especially 'should've said no'. think lex has been otm itt when he says taylor inhabits both perspectives.

listening to "Innocent" and thinking about how it was written about Kanye West makes it way harder for me to enjoy the song

she should've just held up her mic said "u mad?" and then we could've blogged about it for a day and let it go

Imma let you finish listening.

i felt the same way about "innocent" until weirdly enough the album came out and it turned out to largely be about famous people. the song gained a more acceptable context than it had at the vmas or would have if it was on, say, 'fearless'

yeah, I really hope over time the songs will become less overshadowed by who they're actually about for me

don't get how that could take you out of it though. like, it's an odd lil bit of trivia and all, but like, is mayer-face peering through yr window when 'dear john' is on? wld it be less distracting if these were abt folks you had a higher estimation of?

I don't have a low opinion of any of them, really -- it's just, for something like "Innocent," the backstory just completely overwhelms everything for me right now. when I usually listen to songs I have no idea about the context in which they were made most of the time, so I don't have that problem. someone else's (the artist's) vision of what their song is about doesn't overwhelm my own

that wasn't completely coherent but whatever

nah i got u

I think the key problem with "Innocent" w/r/t backstory (and I assume this was covered in the debates following the live performance) is that she makes Kanye's conduct into some kind of life-altering burden of shame that he's unnecessarily carrying around with him - as if he's an unwed teen mother or a drug addict or a trying-to-reform ex-con or something. Notwithstanding the forgiveness it feels heavy-handed.\

Whereas when I (initially) assumed it actually was about someone along those lines it didn't bother me.

The diff. between "Innocent" and "Dear John" is that the latter is about her feelings, whereas the former is about the other person's feelings. It doesn't occur to me to get too concerned about the backstory of "Dear John" because that would involve me stepping into Taylor's actual (as opposed to performative) shoes. In "Innocent" she's already doing that herself so it invites the critique more readily.

you must train yourself markers

yeah but taylors projections just end up revealing more about herself

yeah but taylors projections just end up revealing more about herself

yeah, I agree, and I still like the song, I just mean it's not a song where it's easy to just disregard the backstory once you know what that backstory is.

yeah, "innocent" just seems clumsy all around to me. don't care for it at all

xpost

exactly

the only line that really snaps me back out and into the backstory is the 32 y/o one. other than that I think she's expressing a pretty universal sentiment, ie were not the sum of our actions etc

best line on "innocent" is the one about how we get to be brand new each day

taken at face value, the lyrics kind of imply that taylor and the object of the song were quite close before? or that he meant something to her? the tone is one of reassurance that she still cares for him (and that she means enough to him that her forgiveness would matter)

best line on "innocent" is the one about how we get to be brand new each day

Yeah not so much the lyric itself but the vocal and the arrangement at this point are just massive.

with "innocent" i sort of imagine that kanye got all obsessive for a few weeks (because he's like that) and kept calling or writing her ALL-CAPS EMAILS about how bad he felt and how he was lying awake at night wondering WHATS WRONG WITH ME, and the song is her responding to that. that's just a guess, but it would make the song make a little more sense.

good point -- we don't know what went on behind the scenes

tbh with each leak from the new kanye album I think the caricature on 'innocent' is more and more otm

if there's one thing you could say about "innocent" is that it's condescending -- it's CERTAINLY otm tho

good point -- we don't know what went on behind the scenes

self-evident, no?

I wonder if kanye sent taylor a picture of his dick

and then told her to runaway

~hmm~

it's self-evident what went on behind the scenes? i don't think so

no, it's self-evident that we don't want to know

I wonder if kanye sent taylor a picture of his dick

"Runaway" sure is an...inelegant variation on "Mean."

Lost your balance on a tightrope

do u think kanye took taylor to a private circus?

Your string of lights is still bright to me

do u think kanye took taylor christmas tree shopping?

You wouldn't be shattered on the floor now

do u think they listened to natalie imbruglia's 'torn' together??

Lives change like the weather

do u think that taylor and kanye's relationship existed for longer than a few months...hence the changing of the weather??

she makes Kanye's conduct into some kind of life-altering burden of shame that he's unnecessarily carrying around with him - as if he's an unwed teen mother or a drug addict or a trying-to-reform ex-con or something

to be fair whenever Kanye writes at length being all despairing about his actions, this is kind of how he characterizes himself.

with "innocent" i sort of imagine that kanye got all obsessive for a few weeks (because he's like that) and kept calling or writing her ALL-CAPS EMAILS about how bad he felt and how he was lying awake at night wondering WHATS WRONG WITH ME

loooool. the sad thing is it's probably true.

do u think kanye took taylor christmas tree shopping?

we know that taylor swift grew up on a christmas tree farm, right?

i like how this review is so quick to note that she "sang in key." poor taylor, she's on constant pitch-watch. (given that, i give her credit for continuing to do these kind of acoustic shows. whatever she lacks as a singer, it's not self-confidence.)

i do know that the first time i see her perform "dear john" live i'm going to be on fucking tenterhooks on the fireworks line

Spotify giveth, and Spotify taketh away. Speak Now has gone back to being premium content so I can't listen again anyway.

Which of the other two albums should I listen to instead?

haven't heard her first record in toto, but Fearless is great!

actually, thanks for the reminder -- I should get her first record

Decided to listen to them in order.

But MAN are the spotify adverts during Taylor Swift albums a whole world of o_0

*I* could be a Disney star if I went to Celebrity Talent Academy? Really?

depends - the s/t title has more filler but is more "country", slightly rougher, less focused on high school scenarios; fearless is a lot more romantic. fearless is the one that made me love taylor swift.

i would say "tim mcgraw", "teardrops on my guitar", "picture to burn", "should've said no", "our song" and "mary's song" off the debut, then all of fearless.

ha xps. yeah listening chronologically is always a good way to go for context-seeking.

OK, I'm going through the selected singles from the first album but seriously - I am having trouble with the banjos. Think I'm getting PTSD flashbacks to my teenage years and I'm not sure how long I can cope. ;-)

"stay beautiful" is worth listening to as well!

i like the s/t more than fearless tbh but it will certainly aggravate anyone's latent banjophobia

"stay beautiful" is worth listening to as well!

^^^ urgent and key

I know that the discussion of "country music" signifiers just gets into a whole mess of culture and class and that for a lot of British people listening to it has a kind of glossy exotic appeal BUT ... jesus I fucking hate banjos and this whole album is just giving me this cringe like I'm gonna get beaten up on the school bus because that's my strongest association with pop-country coz that's where I heard it the most. And the high school theme of her work is really heightening that feeling.

That said, the US country version of Should've Said No is actually way more powerful in mandolin and fiddle styling than in the big pop production I heard earlier.

Still.

There's this running idea (both in Should've Said No - that "you might have still had me" and in Mine, the single of which is still playing on Spodify) of the people within relationships being things, being possessions you can own, and she uses this kind of terminology again and again. And I don't know if it's because she's young and still has naive ideas about what romance is, or if it's because of the culture she grew up in (women are chattel in the conservative mindset, etc.) but it sticks out and it bothers me.