― Tom, Monday, 9 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
Stax has more soul in the singing, but also plenty plenty country.
Motown's rhythm is far more clattery and loud and urban-'latin'- unwhite: and I personally wouldn't want to call contest between the blacknuss in the respective basslines (J.Jamerson was a jazzer, tho he plays like himself alone). Motown also employed the best loudest disc- cutters (Lennon and Townshend were always complaining to UK disc- cutters that the sound in the groove they were getting was so WEEDY compared to Motown's).
― mark s, Monday, 9 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
Motown has damaged the reputation of its own catalogue. All it’s artists’ reputations are still under the company's control and the company has very strong views about which artist are favoured (compare the reverence accorded to Diana Ross to the treatment of Smokey Robinson). The compilations put out by Motown are tacky cash-ins poorly organised. Even now after all this time Motown treats the "product" as disposable.
Stax - way less successful but emblematic of those southern sounds - is a well managed history - easier of course because there's far less of it. Stax records have gravitas. The reissues are packaged to be soulful (original sleeves, tasteful compilations) in contrast to Motown’s K-tel inspired compilations. Even very minor Stax figures like Booker T continue to be valued as part of the lineage. Some way smaller than Motown, that Stax can even be pitched into this battle of Tom’s is a triumph of curating. It’s an absurd contest – Motown is a colossal label; Stax simply symbolises a whole southern soul approach – the very greatest records of this sound weren’t even on the label (Aretha especially).
So if I had to choose? As an infant I heard Motown on the radio every day. I know most of the big singles like nursery rhymes. Until recently I haven’t wanted to own many of them. Stax records were at one point in my life a big, exciting discovery – The Staple Singers were a massive teenage crush. In truth there simply isn’t enough material on Stax to give up Motown for it. If on the other hand the contest was stretched to include Atlantic, King and Hi (Aretha, James Brown, Al Green for example) then it might be a fairer contest – gospel soul versus pop soul.
― Guy, Tuesday, 10 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
I'll have to take Stax, just in response to that comment. But otherwise, motown would win. For Smokey Robinson's "Really Got A Hold On Me" alone.
― Sterling Clover, Tuesday, 10 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
― Pihkal Boy, Tuesday, 10 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
― gareth, Tuesday, 10 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
And everyone knows that Steps is just plain cooler than S Club 7...
― Nicole, Tuesday, 10 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
― Tom, Tuesday, 10 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
Since I was a hippie in high school, Motown was way too mainstream. It's not now though.
― Joseph Wasko, Friday, 13 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
Speaking of which, I'd take Stax/Volt any day. Simply because I don't _like_ most of the songs written by Phil Spector, or his compatriots.
― Jack Redelfs, Saturday, 29 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
― Tadeusz Suchodolski, Saturday, 29 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
― k/l (Ken L), Monday, 14 November 2005 06:05 (eighteen years ago) link
― stockholm cindy is in your extended network (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 14 November 2005 06:11 (eighteen years ago) link
― Hurting (Hurting), Monday, 14 November 2005 06:30 (eighteen years ago) link
― k/l (Ken L), Monday, 14 November 2005 06:33 (eighteen years ago) link
― k/l (Ken L), Monday, 14 November 2005 06:49 (eighteen years ago) link
Otoh if we're trying to weigh (Booker T & The MG's, Ray Charles, The Coasters, The Drifters, Aretha Franklin, Isaac Hayes, Ben E King, Wilson Pickett, Otis Redding, Sam & Dave and Percy Sledge) against (The Four Tops, Marvin Gaye, The Isley Brothers, The Jacksons, Martha Reeves & The Vandellas, Smokey Robinson, Diana Ross & The Supremes, The Temptations and Stevie Wonder) then I've probably got to come down in favour of Motown.
― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Monday, 14 November 2005 10:36 (eighteen years ago) link
― m coleman (lovebug starski), Monday, 14 November 2005 11:46 (eighteen years ago) link
Only after The Miracles' Shop Around and Mary Wells success proved to be the formula did Motown relegate Barett Strong, Lamont Dozier, and The Hollands as writers (which is a mixed bag because I really like Eddie Holland's records as much as I like his writing).
Needless to say, Stax moved beyond that late 50's ballad sound and found success based around The Memphis Horns and Booker T & The MG's...Motown's echo chamber combined with Benny Benjamin's loose fills gave contrast to the horn heavy Stax once Holland/Dozier/Holland + Funk Brothers was the formula.
James Jammerson is a subject unto himself. Good God.
But aside from the hits/mid 60's, the early stuff form both were great and very very different from one another.
― PappaWheelie, Olives, Red Wine, Coffee, Scotch, and Me (PappaWheelie 2), Tuesday, 29 August 2006 16:38 (eighteen years ago) link
Stax had a great rhythm section and (like Motown) several excellent singers, but the song material didn't hold up.
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 29 August 2006 20:12 (eighteen years ago) link
actually, i really call it a tie. they were both great factories and i can't see any real difference in quality, except that stax never did a "city of angels," which is the greatest album ever made. (except for genesis' "foxtrot," of course.)
― edd s hurt (ddduncan), Wednesday, 30 August 2006 03:17 (eighteen years ago) link
Stax v. Motown... is there a difference? Christ, what next, the great Steps v. S Club 7 dialectic?
― Pihkal Boy, Monday, April 9, 2001 8:00 PM (7 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
― harry s tfuman (and what), Saturday, 21 February 2009 20:04 (fifteen years ago) link
Yes there is a difference. Stax is grimier and darker. Spontaneous. Motown more processed and thought out. Motown dictatorship- Stax a democracy (cept maybe in the last few years) Staxers could choose their own clothes. More about individuality as opposed to the production line from Motown. Stax wins.
This is my impresssion.
― Hinklepicker, Wednesday, 12 August 2009 11:18 (fifteen years ago) link
Thread of missing Bob Babbitt and Duck Dunn.
Just now wanted to hear "Ball of Confusion" for some reason. Spotify led me to Motown Complete Number 1's. As I listened I realized that it was one of Bob's signature tunes and then the next tracks up were "Signed, Sealed, Delivered," "War" and "The Tears Of A Clown," which were all his too. Didn't react strongly to the news when I heard about him passing, I guess now is the delayed reaction hitting.
― My Elusive Memes (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 20 July 2012 00:43 (twelve years ago) link
Is this thread about rockism?
― Will Chave (Hurting 2), Friday, 20 July 2012 00:47 (twelve years ago) link
Probably. On the off campus Motown side, that service does not have a decent version of BB's masterwork "Band of Gold," only some remix rerecords. Finally, I had never known or had forgotten he had played on "Smiling Faces Sometimes" and all those Spinners records.
― My Elusive Memes (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 20 July 2012 00:52 (twelve years ago) link
Just bumping this thread to say that the new William Bell album, released on Stax (whatever that means in 2016), is very nearly as good as his original Stax albums.
― Ⓓⓡ. (Johnny Fever), Thursday, 7 July 2016 01:42 (eight years ago) link
Some good songs on it and his voice is still strong, although on one number he sounds kinda like Van Morrison (I forget the title of that one).
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 7 July 2016 18:03 (eight years ago) link
Been listening to the new William Bell one again. Very good, despite my minor nitpicks.
― curmudgeon, Monday, 25 July 2016 17:14 (eight years ago) link
One of Bell's better new songs is nominated for a Grammy
Best Traditional R&B Performance:
"The Three Of Me" — William Bell
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 7 December 2016 19:23 (seven years ago) link
^_^
― Ⓓⓡ. (Johnny Fever), Wednesday, 7 December 2016 20:20 (seven years ago) link
Came across this old RIP/Remembrance thread about Stax/Ardent engineer Ron Capone, a link to which I am placing here: https://repforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php?topic=11362.0
― Spirit of the Voice of the Beehive (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 17 December 2018 00:39 (five years ago) link
RIP Ron Capone. I don't know much about him, but I'm currently working my way through the Stax Singles box set in chronological order, picking out my favorites, and the consistent warm sound makes it a comfortable task.
― Karl Malone, Monday, 17 December 2018 00:41 (five years ago) link
He’s been dead for over a decade, just thought of him because of his association with James Burton, who was super-tight with Joe Osborn, who did just pass, and played on tons of records although no Memphis recordings I am aware of.
― Spirit of the Voice of the Beehive (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 17 December 2018 01:06 (five years ago) link
I saw a Marshall Crenshaw email note to Bob Lefsetz that mentioned bass player and one time guitarist Joe Osborn's death. His little obit didn't mention any Memphis work.
― curmudgeon, Monday, 17 December 2018 03:43 (five years ago) link
Yes, these guys had a Shreveport connection, not a Memphis connection.
― Spirit of the Voice of the Beehive (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 17 December 2018 10:43 (five years ago) link
Did Charles Lloyd play on any Stax releases? Saw a William Bell interview where he said they used to hang together.
― curmudgeon, Monday, 17 December 2018 16:28 (five years ago) link
https://www.soulcountry.net/post/william-bell-s-back-to-bring-soul-home
Profile of now 83-years old William Bell
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 16 November 2022 21:05 (one year ago) link