EMP Pop Conference 2007: Ready for more?

well, that's what i thought was interesting. i mean, i'm definitely familiar with pitchfork over the years (as a general arc) and it just seems like everything has accellerated tremendously there.

question being, then, is: was the accelleration really in response to a demand or is there a sense that FAST is sort of a philosophical choice now? i'm not nudging, i just thought it was interesting that amy's position was so, "if you're gonna survive in this hyperfast music world, you've gotta feed the pit," kinda thing--when the fact is, most young people who read stuff on the internet (i'm 24) have been reading pitchfork when it was more a horse-and-cart thing.

on the other hand, 137-year-old ryan schrieber does stay young by feasting on the blood of mp3 bloggers and potential interns

I think once you start "feeding the pit", it's hard to stop, and any attempt to do so makes you look like you're giving up to some extent. Some of my presentation was on the way time scales are messed up once you accept the vast amount of music there is to hear, and go with the flow (per se) of what's available. Pitchfork's organization is hardly to blame for any acceleration in the way internet people read/process music, but like a lot of music sites, imo the thinking behind what's published probably has contributed to must-hear-all-now attitudes -- mine included. It's a daily site; often we write about records/tracks months before they're released -- again, like just about every site that covers new music. There is a reason a lot of people call Pitchfork a blog; obv, it isn't, but when everything starts moving so quickly, maybe it's harder to make fine distinctions.

Well, we still publish record reviews around the time of their release, not months before. And to a certain percentage of our audience that means we're hopelessly behind.

The news and forkcast sections are sort of the 24-hour news half of the coin and the features and reviews are us clinging to the hope and belief that people still want to actually read about music.

Mike's horse/cart thing, I dunno. I wrote this at first and probably wisely didn't post it, but what the hell:

aren't alot of those news blurbs that Pitchfork posts "first and fast" just re-written press releases? So Arcade Fire fans want to know their tour schedule right now, big deal.

Some are, some aren't. Lots of what Amy and her staff do is ensuring that they get this info first and that they turn it around quickly when they have it. Which is part of her point: The need to just consume and keep up is the primary vehicle behind how certain readers consume music and talk about it. P4k news also covers shows, conducts artist interviews (e.g. there will be two published today), chases down rumors, breaks some news. We post official news and things that have been sourced, etc.,-- Amy runs her section like any news organization would, and although I'm far beyond the point where I expect a certain percentage of the music-loving world to give us anything other than knee-jerk sneers, the section today vs. a year ago is massive improvement, and quite a bit of it is down to Amy.

All that aside...what Amy does or how well it's done has almost nothing to do with her point (alas, I was not there but in enough conversations w/her lamenting the state of and future of music journalism and what that means for our company I understand her concerns because they are also mine): In short, that to an emerging generation of kids, music criticism is 24-hour news and leaks and mp3s and ratings and getting to things first. It's not about digesting music and it's not having meaningful conversations about it or reading someone else's ideas about it. Indeed, it's barely having conversations about it all. The democratization of music crit-- on mssg boards, mp3 blogs, etc.-- seems to not be resulting in ppl sharing more ideas with one another, but falling over another just to plant flags. And now many (specifically indie) fans seem actively suspicious of anyone who talks at length about music.

P4k's very act of printing longform reviews** and attempting to share ideas about music is, quite oddly, resented and seen to many as us cramming our opinions down someone's throat or inherently self-indulgent because ppl don't look to music writers for ideas, merely for suggestions on what to download. It's resented and kicked against because music crit is, to many of them, seemingly merely used as a tipsheet and now they can just 'listen to an mp3 and make up their own mind.'

And I fear that with mp3s giving people v. little tangible to grasp onto (no album art, liner notes, photos-- no product), the internet eliminating the need to hunt for info or sounds about/from an artist (let alone make choices about who to literally invest in), the rise of DVDs and video games as products that kids cherish, collect, and participate in w/o other distractions, and music almost exclusively something you do while you're doing something else (a background/lifestyle item) that there is little myth-making or magic in pop music these days, and as a result fewer ideas and conversations and arguments. In short, the future of writing about music, or whatever Amy's panel was called, is pretty grim because the future of getting people to invest their thoughts in music seems grim, too.

(at the risk of drawing the ire of, well, everyone, the Consumer Guide is basically the grandfather of new music crit-- two sentences and a rating, esp. when one considers that all ppl now want out of those sentences is a general idea of what it sounds like, not insight or elegant sentences, as Christgau obv. delivers.)

** Put it another way: P4k and its peers and contemporaries could be the first and last eZines. If the future of music crit is online, then the old print mag format-- followed by P4k, Stylus, Dusted, Drowned in Sound, CMG, etc.-- is almost N/A. Maybe I'm off but I can't recall a new eZine starting in the past few years. It's all blogs, and lately all that means is posting music or videos. The energy and ideas that departed the Voice, for example, seem to primarily have gone to writing for retail (eMusic), MTV Urge, or writing about single tracks (the very good PTW). I don't blame anyone-- you'd be foolish to start an eZine now-- but what does that say about sustaining lengthy word counts, which was the very thing the internet and the first wave of blogs got right, let alone expressing and communicating ideas?

sorry to go on with half-formed complaints and thoughts, you caught me on a bad day, ILx!

(the horse/car thing, by the way, wasn't an insult so much as it was just to say that there was a time when pitchfork was just a "slower" place than it is now--just want to be clear on that.)

Scott, some of your comments dovetail with Whitney Pastorek's insightful piece last week about the [Removed Illegal Link]

Let's try that again:

the state of cultural criticism in a comment board world

Um, what generation DIDN'T find rockcrit indulgent and simply prefer a tipsheet? Technology has increased the immediacy of gossipnewsetal, but these are pretty standard arguments about what "real people" (or "the new generation," or whatever you're defensively catering to) want vs. what rockcrits offer.

I'm not even sure what the argument here is other than "LOOK we have to feed the beast or we won't be successful" which isn't exactly a new concept. Creem writers bitching about People, etc.

(Btw, I prefer Amy's section and the forkcast to the longer reviews too. I go to Pfork for "what to download" and am grateful that star ratings - take note, Paper Thin Walls - and other dickery is gradually being removed)

i think Pitchfork does what it does very well. anyone crying about Pitchfork is truly searching for something to cry about and they should probably just EVOLVE. haha, but, seriously... they should.

i was a little confused by amy's speech, cuz it seemed to be directed more toward the idea of good future business models - actually the model she seemed to be describing just sounded like the model of a daily newspaper - than the future of writing about music. not that the two aren't entwined... but whatever. it livened things up. and i dig her.


oh, also, anyone who knows alfred well, e-mail him and ask about "the go-betweens anecdote". he may tell it too you if you are lucky. maybe not.

xpost to myself, above: It also makes me wonder how much of ILM's alleged decline has to do with this burgeoning mentality (esp. among college-age kids discovering the board), as opposed to the board simply encompassing more and more voices period than it did five years ago.

Favorites: Fuchs, McLeod, Matos, Carr, Bruno, and Seward

Best extracurricular event--Douglas singing "Bad Babysitter" at karaoke

I skipped EMP on Sunday--there's already an ongoing discussion on the future of music criticism happening in my apartment--and went to the library instead. Wow, fluorescent yellow escalators.

yes, the library was incredible! did you sit on the plus-sign chairs? i thought they were wooden from far away.

It also makes me wonder how much of ILM's alleged decline has to do with this burgeoning mentality (esp. among college-age kids discovering the board), as opposed to the board simply encompassing more and more voices period than it did five years ago

They're kinda the same thing, no?

And now many (specifically indie) fans seem actively suspicious of anyone who talks at length about music.

Really? Hm. I haven't seen this, frankly. I'm probably not looking in the right places. "Democratization of music crit" seems inevitable, and is probably as old as...democracy itself?

The thing about everyone visibly bridling at Amy's comment (as Mark Sinker put it)... well, there are a lot of things about it. One of them is that all she's saying is that music criticism is becoming just like virtually every other part of every other newspaper/magazine that deals with news -- you have to write fast under deadline and get the scoop.

News reporting is fast and furious. Is it so strange that music writing become that?

As Mark pointed out, there's plenty of levels to swim at within that dynamic field when your writing is at the nexus of time/length/timeliness/timelessness.

What mostly matters is not some value judgement about high or low culture and "these kids" but

JUST WRITE REALLY FUCKING WELL (you know you can!) AND YOU'LL BE FINE NO MATTER WHAT THE INDUSTRY DOES

Maura's "The Season Came To An End: Freestyle Brings Loneliness To a Crowded Dance Floor" (as Alfred and others indicate, really great, a fine combination of informed personal reflection and broader overview for an ill-documented scene-as-such -- also, best sound clip use of the conference, in that after reading the lyrics of Stevie B's "Spring Love" and then playing the representative clip, the illustration of sad lyrics vs. peppy music was so perfect, and the song itself so great, that it inspired dancing and a round of applause...and this was the *opening* of the talk!)

Damn! Transcript? More info? Anyone???

JUST WRITE REALLY FUCKING WELL (you know you can!) AND YOU'LL BE FINE NO MATTER WHAT THE INDUSTRY DOES

thank you, Maria! That's what I was coming to.

News reporting is fast and furious. Is it so strange that music writing become that?

i don't think it's wrong to say "kind of." i mean, there's also the distinction between reviews/features/"criticism" (which we tend to think of as atemporal, as long as you pay attention to release dates), and news, which is inherently supposed to be timely. (as an aside, the guy who did the presentation on the creem news section said that the only reason their news was snarky is because their pub schedule didn't permit them to report it as fast as other mags, so they had to make it appealing.)

i dunno, i think that there's an ever-focusing middle ground, like blog entries, where we're getting a hybrid of undercooked criticism, a flag as to a song's existience, and usually, the song itself. it's just really weird to me, but i guess, hey, welcome to the modern world or whatever.

xpost
I have to run. Just quickly, though. My favorite presentations in no particular order: Scott Seward, Eric Davis, Devon Powers, the music computer game guy's, the Cosmo/Geeta/Simon triumvarate, the country/soul one -- oh fuck it, I loved it all, really. I missed so many of the presentations, unfortunately.

Devon Powers is stunningly beautiful. Yow! What a pretty lady. I found her really smart and insightful - she had a cool meta-take on music writing.

I think my hubby should consider doing stand up. He was so funny! I had read his piece beforehand and thought it was funny, but his delivery made it ten times funnier.

I'm still a little unclear on what Amy actually said. Was it a "more web content, old-media folks" kinda thing?

If only they had podcasted the whole conference

Her basic point wasn't 'this is how it should be,' but 'this is how kids want it,' meaning immediately - she said kids want stuff as quickly as possible, so that need is there to be met by whoever chooses to. It was when she got into the business about doing it 'as quickly as possible' that the rabble started. I was talking to her about it afterwards, and she reiterated that she wasn't saying it was the only way or the best way, but it's what there is a demand for.

I just wanted to point out that TOM FUCKING SMUCKER DANCED TO DISCO IN MY LIVING ROOM. this means that nearly all my dreams have come true. srsly, Smucker's essay on disco in the Rolling Stone Illustrated History of Rock was life-changing, the first piece of serious disco writing I ever read, and still one of my favorites. such a tremendous honor.

My favorite part of the party may have been watching the congregation of younger types genuflect before Christgau. You'd think Jesus was delivering a new parable.

You were there too, mon ami!

Yeah, I don't deny that I took my place in the throng for a bit. But it really seemed to be an all night spectacle.

I have to mention Nate Petrin's Wu-Tang presentation: scholarly, serious, scary -- amazing. The only thing I wanted to do when I got back was listen to "Can It All Be So Simple."

(Btw, I prefer Amy's section and the forkcast to the longer reviews too. I go to Pfork for "what to download" and am grateful that star ratings - take note, Paper Thin Walls - and other dickery is gradually being removed)

"dickery" meaning "thought." thanks for your stunning insight, Da Croupier

"thinking gives you wrinkles" etc.

disliking star ratings and pitchfork reviews =! hating "thought." but i bet both are flattered!

I thought the party line was "hating pitchfork reviews = epitome of taste (unless you know the reviewer in which case the review is an exception to the rule)"...?

haha I jumped to a conclusion on ILM for the FIRST TIME EVER

(Full disclosure: I am not criticising anyone, I'm describing how I view Pitchfork.)

btw, Andy Beta posted his paper: http://andybetablog.blogspot.com/2007/04/bemp.html

Best extracurricular event--Douglas singing "Bad Babysitter" at karaoke

I am sorrowed to have missed this. His "Natural Woman" was a kick, though Matos's unholy triumvirate of X-Ray Spex' "Germfree Adolescents," Gretchen Wilson's "Redneck Woman" and Grand Funk's "We're An American Band" is my highlight.

yes, the library was incredible!

I love the library; I usually chill there when I'm visiting Seattle and have flown in midday and need to wait for everyone to get off work.

I think my hubby should consider doing stand up. He was so funny!

He was! There are a lot of great humorists among the presenters and they did their reputations proud (I'd also include Matos and Kipp for a start).

oh, also, anyone who knows alfred well, e-mail him and ask about "the go-betweens anecdote"

I believe I was there for that. (I was genuflecting for a bit.)

Matos's glee re: Smucker dancing makes me happy.

man, I have written far too many words-- especially off-topic ones-- in this thread already, but after finally ending my work day I now see that I should have at least read over that rant/response before posting. I think every one of those sentences has a word repeated in it!

In any event...maybe next year. I remain extremely envious of those who are able to go to EMP.

i. thx to eric and everyone for organising everything and inviting me
ii. thx to excellent panel xx devon, randall and michael
iii. x0x to everyone i hung with x0x
iv. apols to ppl i didn't get to talk to so much :(
v. RAMBLING!!¡? heavens i kill u now ;-)
vi. standard of papers pretty high comp.other conferecnes i've been at
vii. UR ALL GHEY

So did Pitchfork assign anyone to cover the conference?

dave marsh

I remain extremely envious of those who are able to go to EMP.

Cosign that. Also, I remain extremely envious of those who can concentrate on one thing for more than about five minutes at a time.

i feel like i missed spring break

a very fat and pasty spring break

"I had to stay in the dormhome, I had a paperto go to work and take the kids to soccer and baseball practice."

I remain extremely envious of those who can concentrate on one thing for more than about five minutes at a time.

YES

De-lurkifying to say thanks (and to Matos, too; all that was missing from yr house was a keymaster in a chicken costume). Also: if anybody wants to write something, uh, analytical about Karen Dalton, I'm happy to share contacts and transcripts.

My favorite moment was Mike yoink-quoting celestial ice cream trucks -- and I did the Patti Smith interview at P4k; the credit's since been changed.

I wish the EMP pop conference would come over to my house for beers tonight after Lost.

OK, and who's going to be the one next years whose presentation is called "Use of music as clue-dropper and plot-mover in the hit TV series Lost"?

year

lame request -- if anyone's using del.icio.us and bookmarking this year's emp papers, can you tag them "emp2007"? i want to read whatever's online, since i didn't attend this year. thanks!

In some prior years The NY Times covered the event, but alas I've seen very little coverage of it in newspapers or online in blogs. Maybe those who were there will eventually post about it.