Rolling Teenpop 2006 Thread

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About Platinum Weird, someone else needs to do the research, as I distract myself too much as it is. A blogster in Scotland said that the '06-style album had been pushed back to next year, but if the thing is part two of a two-fer in places, that's a different story. If you're interested, ask the publicist, Janell Vantrease. vantrease at kensunshineconsultants dot com.

There's a new trend that I don't really understand these days, albums being given limited releases initially and then broader releases later - though I doubt that that's what's happening with Platinum Weird. The Teddybears got a release through indie retailers in late September, but are due to get the release through major retailers in early '07.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 19:05 (seventeen years ago) link

My guitar seems about a half-tone off from Aly's & A.J.'s, so all chord designations are an approximation here, but the verse in "Shine" starts off in A-minor, and the crucial other chord is F (similar to the Stones' "Under My Thumb" and many other songs), which is, um, the subdominant of C, A-minor's relative major. (And now that I've said that, what does it prove?)

The rhythm is pretty much in clave throughout. And the way the vocals are low pitch at the start and given talk-like emphasis (rather than wails and melismas and such) seems very r&b.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 19:33 (seventeen years ago) link

"Like a neighborhood on a city street/I know the path, it knows my feet" is a good couplet - the second half, anyway, the path knowing the feet [not sure how a neighborhood can be on a street, however].

The lyric sites have this as "on a city street," but now I think I'm hearing "on a certain street," which makes a little more sense, since you can interpret the line as "Like [being in] a neighborhood, [like being] on a certain street..."

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 19:37 (seventeen years ago) link

but "you're the star you're on tonight" seems to be something you'd tell a friend, not a deity.

But Jesus isn't just their Savior, he's their Bestest Friend!

nameom (nameom), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 20:03 (seventeen years ago) link

Well, yeah, but does he need their reassurance?

The rhythm is pretty much in clave throughout. That is:

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/8482/clavesongc4.png

(Bo Diddley does a lot of variants on this, too, even though he's not Cuban.)

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 20:12 (seventeen years ago) link

[Great play-by-play for "I Live for the Day" from nameon. Thanks.]

Grey, Ian (IanBrooklyn), Thursday, 19 October 2006 03:03 (seventeen years ago) link

JoJo album streamed over at the AOL Listening Party. (Also Dierks Bentley, Vince Gill, Squarepusher, Aerosmith.)

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 19 October 2006 20:53 (seventeen years ago) link

New Skye track from the Sims game ("Boyhunter" in Simlish) available at Clouded-Senses fansite.

nameom (nameom), Thursday, 19 October 2006 21:26 (seventeen years ago) link

New Jordan Pruitt song has started streaming on her Myspace in the, what, 3 days since we last talked about her? It's called "Teenager", and it's quite a departure from "Outside Looking In", featuring a bubble-R&B sound rather than a confessional sound, and featuring much more self-assured lyrics (though still on the same theme, how hard it is being a teenager).

I like it, but not as much as "Outside Looking In"

Greg Fanoe (JustFanoe), Thursday, 19 October 2006 23:19 (seventeen years ago) link

K-Sis - Beijos, Blues E Poesia. This is Brazilian, and the one lyric I can understand is "Baby, I love you." She sings that just a bit fantastically, though.

William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Thursday, 19 October 2006 23:59 (seventeen years ago) link

Brazilian twin-pop! I'm gonna print up some trading cards, btw.

Babelfish translation:

Composition: (Edson Carvalho [which according to Babelfish means "Oak"])

Crying the ice that you gave to me
Finding that you already it forgot me
I do not know if she was you or if I, girl, girl
Were I you being with a sensation
That I was the track and you, the airplane
You it train and I it station, girl, girl
I remember kisses, blues and poetry.
The salt in the skin, you licked me and I said: "Oh baby, I love you" I remember the face that you made
Will be that I remember what I did not exist?
You he said: "Oh baby, I love you"
Tô in the Bahia and tô feeling cold
Beach tá full; in me all emptiness
I tô for a wire, girl, girl
Broke the rope, I look for to you until not being able more
In the InterNet, bars, in periodicals.
Trombar you is what I want more, girl, girl
I remember kisses, blues and poetry the salt in the skin you licked me and I said: "Oh baby, I love you"
I remember the face that you made, I
I remember day and night, night and day
You said: "Oh baby, I love you... Baby, I love you... Baby, I love you... I love you "

So...this is like conceptually halfway between M2M and tATu? With some Wreckers thrown in?

nameom (nameom), Friday, 20 October 2006 00:51 (seventeen years ago) link

More K-Sis:

"Tem Dias (Que A Noite É Foda)" (more rockabilly, less fetching)

"Experimento". The new wave. Good tune.

The lipsynch.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 20 October 2006 02:58 (seventeen years ago) link

OK, since everyone's doing musical analysis, here's a tidbit on "Beijos, Blues E Poesia": The verse is basically in A-flat (at least on my guitar), but there's a tendency to use "jazzy" chords, i.e., the ones with numbers in 'em ("D-Flat Ninth" and the like). Didn't really figure 'em out, except I'd say the women are strumming from A-flat to its subdominant chord, D-flat, but with the ninth in place of the third (but no seventh) - i.e., putting do in your chord instead of the usual mi. I think. But the crucial move is when they shift to F-minor (A-flat's relative minor) or some embellishment thereon, the lead singer sings G (do), which is the ninth note in the A-flat chord, and this gives the melody a haunting, unresolved feel. The song is quiet, but stuff like that sung ninth keeps it flowing. Soft songs usually just dull out in the background for me, but this one I like very much.

OK. Question. If I'm writing a review for readers who don't know anything about ninths and subdominant chords and relative minors, is there any way to give them this information without boring them and getting in the way of everything else I want to say? Or even if the reader does know what those technical terms mean, does using them really communicated anything that's essential to what the song does? I made this the Song Of The Day over in the left column of my MySpace profile, and I left out the technicalities and just wrote this: "gentle and pensive, uses complex jazz chords, which don't turn this into 'smooth jazz' but rather keep the flow just unsettled enough so that it is flow, a quiet push in the music. This is the one soft song in a hundred that maintains its emotion throughout." Still might not mean a whole lot to people. I don't know.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 20 October 2006 22:03 (seventeen years ago) link

G (do), which is the ninth note in the A-flat chord

I meant to write: "G (do), which is the ninth note in the F-minor chord."

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 20 October 2006 22:07 (seventeen years ago) link

You lost me when you moved on to talking about 'flow'--not sure what that means in the context. "A quiet push in the music" is nice though, evocative.

Grey, Ian (IanBrooklyn), Saturday, 21 October 2006 03:19 (seventeen years ago) link

What you're saying is this isn't just 'fruity jazz chords' as they'd say on Buffy, but that these voicings create a certain mood or tension that propels the song, rather than just embroidering it?

Grey, Ian (IanBrooklyn), Saturday, 21 October 2006 03:24 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, that's about it, though I realize I'm being vague. Something about singing a ninth the way they do makes you anticipate a further note. ("Keeps the pages turning" I might say, if this were a suspense novel.) I guess that's standard for songwriting and that there are thousands of songs with ninths where the music doesn't lead you forward nearly as well as "Beijos" does. So I'm saying "Look, K-Sis do this," though then what I describe them doing doesn't seem all that special, and doesn't communicate why this song is special.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Saturday, 21 October 2006 12:06 (seventeen years ago) link

Hey, Frank, I've been meaning to ask what you think of the Timberlake album. I listened to the first half a lot about a month ago and now don't listen to it much at all, although I remember thinking that the anti-crack song and Justin-at-the-piano ballad weren't as bad as most crtics think.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Saturday, 21 October 2006 12:54 (seventeen years ago) link

OK, further to the K-Sis stuff, here's a current top-tenner from France - Laurent Voulzy's 'Derniers Baisers'. Now, ver Voulzy is pretty clearly not a teenpop type, so apologies for that, but the song itself is creeping up on my regards somewhat, even though it's basically a feller on a classical guitar singing the melody from 'Sealed With A Kiss' but with new, French words. though they may not actually be new. but, y'know.

Also, I really really really really really need to tell someone how awesome '1980' by Pascal Obispo & Melissa Mars is. It's in the French charts too - again, not exactly teenagers, but she looks about half his age, so, y'know.

Soddit, while I'm at it - Najoua Belyzel's 'Je Ferme Les Yeux' is still bloody amazing. And she's possibly teenaged too. I bet she bloody isn't, but she's got better odds than Pascal Obispo.

So yeah, in summary - French chart-pop: not half bad, sometimes.

William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Saturday, 21 October 2006 20:47 (seventeen years ago) link

I talked about Lindsay and Madonna on the country thread last year, mainly 'cause it was a comfortable place to talk, so there really aren't strict limits about whom we should or shouldn't discuss here - and the convo upthread about Lacuna Coil and the Gathering and the like really did give me insight as to what was going on with Kelly and Hilary (in their similarities to and difference from dark metal). My guess is that K-Sis wouldn't strictly speaking be "teenpop" either - but then "teenpop" isn't particularly the pop of America's teens, and up in my intro I wrote: "The teens I know listen to Marilyn Manson and System of a Down, and lots of 'teenpop' is actually for pre-teens, and lots of teenpop is also Adult Contemporary (and I'm waiting for Kelly to break on the country stations), so we can talk about whatever [emphasis added], but here's a good place for an ongoing discussion that includes Jesse and Hilary and Lindsay and Avril and Ashlee and Hampton the Hampster and - yes - Hawthorn and Blink-185 [er, 182], and Weezer (!) and Akon (!) and Gwen (!) and I want Brits to post here so they can confuse us with all their Rachel Stevens and Girls Aloud and Sugababes and who knows who and who knows what."

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Sunday, 22 October 2006 10:53 (seventeen years ago) link

Greg over on his blog prints the lyrics to "Not This Year," and I realize that I'd crucially misheard the words - or not heard, since Aly or A.J.* slurs them - at the start:

"This Christmas card is so contrived
A mannequin looks more alive
Haven't meant a word I've written here
The page is full not one thing sincere"

It's the third line I'd not taken in, which changes the whole meaning for me. It's not a pre-printed card she's calling phony, but her own words.

(*I have no idea which voice is Aly's and which A.J.'s. In fact, looking at them in their videos I don't know who is who either, never having seen their respective TV shows. I suppose I should google their album cover; presumably, Aly'll be on the left and A.J. on the right.)

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Sunday, 22 October 2006 11:16 (seventeen years ago) link

Meant to link Greg's blog. Here it is:

The Teen Cultural Revolution

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Sunday, 22 October 2006 11:17 (seventeen years ago) link

1) Aly is on the left of the Acoustic Hearts of Winter cover, to the viewer. I assume AJ is the deeper voiced one because that's what the "Rush" video implies. In any event, I like that one better.

2) Do any older-time listeners of Radio Disney know if Hoobastank or Maroon 5 got any plays on RD at the time?

3) I've been watching the WB Summerland lately which has implications on the teen singer/actor discussion thread above as it stars Jesse McCartney and Zac Efron, and also features Sara Paxton as a regular guest star. Zac and Sara were good as alyways, but I have to say I thought Jesse McCartney was surprisingly very good as an actor. Don't care for his singing though. I will probably post my full thoughts on my blog soon.

Greg Fanoe (JustFanoe), Sunday, 22 October 2006 12:58 (seventeen years ago) link

4) Brooke Hogan is currently #1 on the VH1 top 20 videos countdown

Greg Fanoe (JustFanoe), Sunday, 22 October 2006 13:07 (seventeen years ago) link

So it's even more obvious that sounding/being contrived is a major issue for them. I still think the relationship between contrived and deep lines/sentiments in their songs is important, but it doesn't function the way I thought it did in this song...which might mean that I like it even more, though I wasn't having any problems liking it already (this is probably my third favorite song by them..."Rush" is the best and "One of Them" gets the #2 spot because it genuinely scares me).

I saw them do "Chemicals React" on the Megan Mullally show, seemed like their voices were distinct (Aly's voice was stronger and less pinched), but on record it's not clear.

nameom (nameom), Sunday, 22 October 2006 15:15 (seventeen years ago) link

3) Hoobastank currently has three songs eligible, which (I assume) means they've had hits in the past (probably "The Reason"), but I can't find old Top 30 results through the site or Mediabase. Maroon 5 has no songs eligible, but it might have been a Gnarls Barkley sorta thing where they received some airplay but no additional support.

nameom (nameom), Sunday, 22 October 2006 15:23 (seventeen years ago) link

(Take it back Gnarls is eligible, but Maroon 5 might have been back in the day, not sure)

nameom (nameom), Sunday, 22 October 2006 15:37 (seventeen years ago) link

"Not This Year"

"Silent Night"

"Joy to the World"

"Let It Snow"

"Deck the Halls"

Links for "Greatest Time of Year," "I'll Be Home for Chistmas," and "Not This Year" >here.

("Greatest Time of Year" and "Not This Year" are very good, "I'll Be Home for Christmas" is pretty good, "Silent Night," is not so bad, the other three are adequate, I guess.)

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Sunday, 22 October 2006 20:35 (seventeen years ago) link

Thanks for those links, Frank. Will try and check them all out tonight. What with this and a copy of the Into The Rush deluxe edition finally arriving in the post from the States at the end of last week, I'm certainly ODing on Aly & AJ at the moment (I have no complaints). As you surmised, in nearly all their photos - and on stage - Aly is on the left and AJ is on the right. Generally, although not always (the "Rush" video is one notable exception), Aly styles her hair in waves (ringlets?) and AJ's hair is straight. Ironically, both of them look better when they adopt the other's preferred style!

UK chart notes:

1. Meat Loaf & Marion Raven made the UK Top 10 this week. Quite possibly the last time Marion will ever reach such giddy heights over here, but you never know.

2. My Chemical Romance have the #1 single for second straight week (and the LP, released today, is sure to follow it to #1). MCR are pomp-emo but have a large teen girl following here judging by the crowd that attended their gigs in London (one of them a matinee!) a year or so ago.

Jeff W (zebedee), Monday, 23 October 2006 10:06 (seventeen years ago) link

Generally, although not always (the "Rush" video is one notable exception), Aly styles her hair in waves (ringlets?) and AJ's hair is straight. Ironically, both of them look better when they adopt the other's preferred style!

Aly of Phil of the Future adopted all sorts of crazy hairstyles, practically a new one every episode. But yeah, I agree that she looks best with just the normal straight hair.

Greg Fanoe (JustFanoe), Monday, 23 October 2006 11:26 (seventeen years ago) link

New Marion Raven, Hannah Montana, and Brooke Hogan albs all being streamed for a week at AOL's Listening Party. (Also the new Montgomery Gentry, which is supposed to be great [I have reservations about the title track, which is all I've heard, but this is one of the great acts of the '00s], and the new Moby.)

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 23 October 2006 15:03 (seventeen years ago) link

The new JoJo's album is the perfect prettiness for the first five songs and good on and off for the rest. Track One is by Scott Storch and Sean Garrett, Track Two is by Swizz Beatz and Sean Garrett, Track Three is "Too Little Too Late," which you know. It's by Billy Steinberg, Josh Alexander, and R.A. Cunningham, the first two of whom contributed to the Veronicas' "Leave Me Alone" and t.A.T.u.'s "All About Us." Track Four, the title song, is by Bridget Benenate, Matthew Gerrard, J. Rotem. Track Five is by Justin Trugman, Beau Dozier, Mischke, David Paich, Jeff Porcaro, the last two getting credit for the Toto sample that permeates the song.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 23 October 2006 15:54 (seventeen years ago) link

Note to this "Hannah Montana" person: I love you but I've chosen MCR.

nameom (nameom), Monday, 23 October 2006 17:09 (seventeen years ago) link

The new Marion Raven is an EP: six songs, three new, three from the Atlantic alb that was never released here. Concentrating on the rockers rather than the Max Martins, unfortunately. She's transformed herself into an L.A. rocker chick. Sample lyric: "You're good for sex but you're bad for me."

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 23 October 2006 18:49 (seventeen years ago) link

I haven't heard the Timberlake album yet. The two or three songs I have heard sound good but somehow don't leave me moved. Not sure what my barrier is.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 23 October 2006 18:53 (seventeen years ago) link

(MCR album is really good!) OK, actually listened to the Hannah OST, nothing unexpected except: 1) "Just Like You" is pretty good (no RD airplay), probably the best of the ones I haven't heard, 2) a few duds but none unexpected, 2) rehashed material is very old but mostly not bad, just unnecessary 3) Everlife are in Hannah Montana territory, sounds like a second or third-tier Miley track, 4) duet with Billy Ray....not quite as terrible or sappy as I'd expected, sorta Taylor Hicks with some angst-guitars thrown in, totally superfluous, overall the album could be cut in half.

Just checked out Matthew Gerrard's pre-Disney history, bass player before featuring on a Mandy Moore album and producing Eden's Crush (unknown early DioGuardi track on that one, not very good) and Nick Carter. But his breakthrough was Lizzie McGuire --> Hilary Duff. Otherwise he seems to be the producer equivalent of a Disney-bred star, doesn't stray too far.

nameom (nameom), Monday, 23 October 2006 19:13 (seventeen years ago) link

MCR - 'Teenagers' (youtube)

Jeff W (zebedee), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 10:35 (seventeen years ago) link

Not much talk about Fergie's new album. Especially the latter half, where she decides it's OK to be Pink. Highlight is probably "Pedestal," but there are a lot of underrated angsty songs in the second half of the album. (Holy jeez, she was in Kids Incorporated??) "Big Girls Don't Cry" co-written by Toby Gad, whose name seemed familiar...co-writer on the Veronicas album ("Secret," "Mouth Shut," "Speechless"). But for the most part she wrote 'em herself.

nameom (nameom), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 21:53 (seventeen years ago) link

AOL is streaming the new Gwen Stefani single, "Wind It Up," which pushes the envelope as far as melodic or even rhythmic coherence goes, way way way way beyond the fucking around she did in "Hollaback Girl" and "Rich Girl." She starts off high on a hill with a lonely goatherd, and she's yodeling. She stops, a brass band enters, it cuts off, she goes into a robotic rap, bits of oom-pah are inserted without taking hold, and about a minute in a house-like dissonant pushy bass enters. Then the various elements follow in quicker succession, different parts combining. Is this gonna get airplay? No guarantee. I'd like it to. It's more fun than "Luxurious." I would not have predicted that both Gwen ("Hollaback Girl," "Wind It Up") and Jessica ("These Boots Are Made For Walkin'," "Push Your Tush") would start messing around with song form.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 26 October 2006 03:37 (seventeen years ago) link

It made me think of Lene Lovich.

Grey, Ian (IanBrooklyn), Thursday, 26 October 2006 05:15 (seventeen years ago) link

Popjustice just did a poll of their readers, a few stats kinda pertinent to the thread:

83% of you say Paris Hilton does not deserve to be a popstar.

Those who think Paris does deserve to be a popstar are less likely to have a problem with popstars miming, less likely to demand that popstars are interesting, and less likely to believe that popstars should be able to sing.

Almost half of you think Kylie should keep her hair short and that Girls Aloud are better than The Beatles.

17% of you want your popstars to be hairy, and 15% think that being able to sing is unimportant.

Only 3% of under-18s want a Spice Girls reunion.

44% of Lily Allen's MySpace friends think her next album will be shit.

Full report available there.

nameom (nameom), Thursday, 26 October 2006 16:04 (seventeen years ago) link

That is, here

nameom (nameom), Thursday, 26 October 2006 16:05 (seventeen years ago) link

Listen to Radio Disney on Saturday, October 28th @ 2pm ET to let us know if we should pick or kick Fall Out Boy's new song, "What's This?" ! Only from the station that let's you choose your music your way... Radio Disney!

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 27 October 2006 12:57 (seventeen years ago) link

Not totally unexpected, that's their Nightmare Before Christmas cover. (It's kinda cute.) Panic! at the Disco did one of these, too.

nameom (nameom), Friday, 27 October 2006 14:27 (seventeen years ago) link

Heard on RD for the first time today is "Chasing Echoes" by Katelyn Tarver. Kind of Disney girl pop along the lines of Jordan Pruitt or Hannah, but not as good as either of the former. Sounds a bit limp to me, and I'm not sure Katelyn is a good enough singer to really sell the song. Still, definitely the best track of hers that I've heard, and one of the better tracks I've heard on RD lately. Song is available for listening on Katelyn's MySpace.

Just finished listening to the HM soundtrack. Of the songs I never heard the full versions of, thumbs up to "This Is the Life" and "Just Like You", and thumbs down to "The Other Side of Me". The more dance-y HM tries to get, the worse the song ends up being. Still don't really know why "This Is the Life" never really picked up any RD play as it sounds at least as good as, say, "If We Were a Movie" to me. Extra tracks + duet add nothing to the album. I really wish they had included at least one new HM track on this.

Greg Fanoe (JustFanoe), Friday, 27 October 2006 19:29 (seventeen years ago) link

Vanessa Hudgens is breaking onto Top 40 radio, we'll see how far. As of right now 40th in maintream Top 40 airplay (not counting oldies) with 1,339 spins over the last 7 days; not getting far on r&b/hip-hop stations, however (minor play in Chicago and Harrisburg). Stacie Orrico's boring "I'm Not Missing You" is up to 800 Top 40 spins. Gwen's "Wind It Up," just starting, is up to 706 spins. (Aly & A.J.'s "Chemicals React" got 15 Top 40 spins, all in Green Bay.)

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Saturday, 28 October 2006 18:28 (seventeen years ago) link

so i'm liking marion raven's new major-label-imprint sellout sleaze-rock EP (esp its most rocking tracks: # 1, 3, and 5, though #4 is her evanescence goth move and #6 sounds almost as much like nirvana as 'showbiz witch' by the mannequin men does -- thanks, frank!) not only more than her import album from earlier this (later last?) year, but more than the hanna montana album, which i didn't expect, though the latter is still pretty good if almost definitely no hope partlow much less skye sweetnam. (pick hit so far: "who said," followed by "this is the life," but i've only just begun with it.)

PS) The Chow Nasty "Ungawa" guy reminds me as much of James Chance as Jon Spencer; did I ever say that before? Which is not say not as good as James but not as irritating as Jon. If the whole song was as good as chorus chant, it would maybe have shot at my top ten, but as of this moment the James/Jon parts just make me wince way too much.

xhuxk (xheddy), Saturday, 28 October 2006 22:46 (seventeen years ago) link

..which is TO say...

xhuxk (xheddy), Saturday, 28 October 2006 22:58 (seventeen years ago) link

the dirtie blonde and slumber party girls albums, meanwhile, seem a lot less fun than hanna montana. also a lot less fun than the
*employee of the month* soundtrack, which has covers of great songs by cheap trick and t. rex and exile, plus a good hard-fi song, a good reo speedwagon oldie, and my favorite teddybears song -- the one with mad cobra, which i like not only more than anything else on their U.S. album, but also more than the two cuts from before the album that frank burned for me this week. (i could do without the *employee* track by sugarcult, though, and probably the one by red jumpsuit apparatus. there's also a track on there with a bunch of scatological subtitles, but if i heard it so far, i didn't notice.)

xhuxk (xheddy), Sunday, 29 October 2006 01:03 (seventeen years ago) link

dirtie blonde (whose alanis-like debut single i wrote about way upthread) seem to be attempting a yeah yeah yeahs via morningwood shtick in tracks like "bend over," and it is not endearing. they're more likeable in early sheryl crow mode; e.g., "change the water."

xhuxk (xheddy), Sunday, 29 October 2006 01:27 (seventeen years ago) link


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