Pertinent to this thread there's also Jessica Simpson, who doesn't seem to have too terribly much personality either way as far as I'm concerned. Same with Hayden Panettiere.
Jennifer Lopez comes close to having both, though I don't particularly like her as a singer or actress.
Paris is surprisingly "not bad" as an actress, though certainly nothing to write home about.
Reese Witherspoon, maybe, but we'd have to see more of her singing than just Walk the Line. Certainly a lively actress.
Note how all of the good examples Frank is coming up with are people from long ago (Astaire is a really good one. Not a great actor but certainly a fun and lively one.) What happened to the singer/actor in the last 20 years?
― Greg Fanoe (JustFanoe), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 11:16 (seventeen years ago) link
― anthony easton (anthony), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 12:03 (seventeen years ago) link
wasn't j-lo v v critically acclaimed as an actress before she launched the singing career? i don't tend to watch films so have never seen either paris or j-lo act though.
― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 14:35 (seventeen years ago) link
Some discussion of the first line, "this Christmas card is so contrived," F.Kog suggested that "being surrounded by real cheer that you can't participate in is more heartbreaking than being surrounded by fake cheer." Which led me to think about how Aly/AJ use banalities and cliches in their songs to bring out ideas that are more disturbing...the "easy" lines (usually in the chorus, in this case in the first verse) act as catalysts to expressing fear, loathing, not knowing, etc. So in "Not This Year" it's very evident that fake Xmas cards are not the real issue...that comes later, acknowledging that it's about seeing sadness "in the mirror," about shouting your unhappiness to the heavens:
"Don't know if you can hear me/ I will speak louder for you/ No more whispering/ Are you listening?"
The way she delivers this line, it's not so much "Are you there God? It's me, Aly," more like "can you hear me now"? This happens right at the end of the album, before a rendition of "We Wish You a Merry Christmas" (bonus track) that sounds almost sarcastic in context. The contrived cards bit (which itself is a contrived idea) is a decoy, they haven't really gotten at what's really bugging them, you have to dig for it a little.
I don't know if anyone else in teenpop does this. Kelly Clarkson goes about as dark but she doesn't conceal the darkness (like in "Sticks and Stones," where being alone and helpless is refuted in the chorus...Aly/AJ unconvincingly assert their "invincibility," another decoy, since invincibility and intense vulnerability are clearly opposed). They face down isolation and unhappiness armed with paper-thin cliches ("we won't let the bullies hurt us!" "we'll do our best to stay on alert for kidnappers!") and it works, sort of, in the sense that Aly and AJ are still "safe" by Disney standards. "Not This Year" is where their contrivances aren't even opposed to the general idea (sometimes you're just unhappy, even on Christmas), they're just weak and obviously not the real issue -- it's a little temper tantrum before they get to the point.
― nameom (nameom), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 15:28 (seventeen years ago) link
Bette Midler. Certainly has personality, as both an actor and singer. But she's fairly minor as a pop star, isn't she?
Isaac Hayes! Crucially important in music. Not a major actor, but seems good at it.
Played in the soaps but I've never seen them act: Kylie Minogue, Paulina Rubio, Belinda, Shakira.
I've never seen their acting but they have a good rep: Dwight Yoakam, Ice Cube, Eminem, Courtney Love.
Was good in Down By Law and scads of people consider him one of the age's great vocalists, though I don't: Tom Waits.
Was good in Cider House Rules and always sounds good when I hear him rap but I need to know more of his music: Heavy D.
My problem is that I've really lost touch with movies and TV; somewhere I had to draw the line, and movies and TV lost out. So the modern interplay may be greater than I realize.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 18:22 (seventeen years ago) link
I think Bette and Fred Astaire are the best examples anybody's gonna come up with.
I guess the modern interplay between singing and acting is more than I have let on, especially in rap, and it seems to be mostly by chance that it doesn't work that way in teen pop (I don't think any of the HSM'ers or Cheetahs apply here). Other than Ice Cube though none of the singer/actors you mentioned are too major as actors. J.Lo. is the only one who comes to mind who is/was massive as a singer and as an actor in the past few years (Hilary to a certain extent).
I actually follow the TV and movies more than the music so perhaps I am underrating some of the singers.
I've sold Brie short as an actress. She's not bad, but not good either, and I still don't think she conveys 1/10th the personality she conveys in her singing or on her blog.
― Greg Fanoe (JustFanoe), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 19:01 (seventeen years ago) link
― nameom (nameom), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 19:23 (seventeen years ago) link
Seeing an actress like Lindsay Lohan trying to cross into the music world is not a surprise. Hell, acting and lip-synching are practically the same thing. And let’s be honest here, it’s not like she has to fool a bright crowd.
On this clip of her complete desecration of “I Want You to Want Me,” her fans leave well thought-out comments like: “she looks great in make up” “LOV DA SONG…. LOV HER SHE FAB” and “I [heart] whatever the media tells me to [heart]!!!”
if you watch carefully, you can tell she’s lip-synching. You see, when Lohan actually sings, you can hear a very distinct humming noise from the reverberations echoing through the flapping wind sock that constitutes her vaginal walls, which eventually will shake her past-warranty over-stretched turtleneck lips loose in a blaze of vibrating orange fury equitable only to a combination of a giant Georgia O’Keefe painting on acid and Dante’s Inferno. It’s a strange noise, sure, but on the bright side, childbirth should be very easy for her.
― nameom (nameom), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 19:29 (seventeen years ago) link
Does anyone have strong opinions about 30 Seconds to Mars?
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 20:19 (seventeen years ago) link
I thought the four leads in High School Musical did a good job of acting. Vanessa and Ashley are probably the only two with any shot as singers.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 20:39 (seventeen years ago) link
I listened to about half of her first solo LP last night - which is just out on CD in the UK, but only available as a digital download in the US at present. (According to her Wiki entry her career has been dogged by label and publishing problems.) Very enjoyable bubblecrunk: squelchy synth beats and lush harmony vocals (Yummy harmonising with herself I think) that recalls both En Vogue and Hakan Lidbo's "digital disco" side project, Data 80!
Best track I heard was "One More Chance", which was her last single release in the US and is the first song on her MySpace page. From the intro, you think it's gonna be a bogstandard R&B ballad but then this slow disco beat kicks in and the track really takes off.
The other single, "Come Get It" is also pretty good and has a video, so you can find this on youtube.
― Jeff W (zebedee), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 12:04 (seventeen years ago) link
― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 15:53 (seventeen years ago) link
― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 15:54 (seventeen years ago) link
(Not 100% certain on the producer credits. I'd think if Child were involved in the writing he might have been involved in the production as well.)(Though not as Wells.)
Desmond Child produced my favorite Ricky Martin song ("Livin' La Vida Loca") and produced at least some of LeAnn Rimes' Twisted Angel, which has the fabulous "No Way Out," though he's not on the writers credits on that one so I don't know if he had anything to do with it. Mentzer and Romans are in Click Five, sort of halfway between a boyband and a rock group; I borrowed their alb from the library several months ago and liked it OK but not wildly, though I didn't really have time to let it sink in. Don't know too much about Andreas Carlson, but he's a co-writer on *NSync's "Bye Bye Bye" and "It's Gonna Be Me" (and probably loads of other stuff; co-wrote and co-produced the so-so "Symptoms of You" on the first Lohan).
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 16:46 (seventeen years ago) link
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 17:04 (seventeen years ago) link
― nameom (nameom), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 17:14 (seventeen years ago) link
― nameom (nameom), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 17:16 (seventeen years ago) link
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 17:33 (seventeen years ago) link
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 17:44 (seventeen years ago) link
― nameom (nameom), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 17:49 (seventeen years ago) link
Jordan Pruitt appears to be a good singer, it's got a nice laid-back acoustic melody, and I even really like the lyrics. The song was featured in the Disney Channel Original Movie (DCOM) Read It and Weep, which I liked a lot, and the lyrics basically echo the theme of the movie. Maybe that's causing me to overrate it, I don't know. I think this is one of the best songs I've heard about this fairly universal teen/youth (and even adult) feeling of rejection and lonerness, from a lyrical standpoint. Any other candidates?
Here is the song, does anybody else have any opinions on it? (Please forgive if the HTML link doesn't work, I know nothing about computers).
― Greg Fanoe (JustFanoe), Friday, 13 October 2006 02:13 (seventeen years ago) link
As you say, you'd think there'd be loads of songs in this vein. Perhaps you have to go back to the 90s or even the 80s to find them?
― Jeff W (zebedee), Friday, 13 October 2006 10:21 (seventeen years ago) link
Xhuxk to thread.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 13 October 2006 12:07 (seventeen years ago) link
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 13 October 2006 12:11 (seventeen years ago) link
I forgot to mention, but one thing I really love is the "You don't know how it feels..." aspect to it. Of course, the reason the song works is that EVERYBODY knows how it feels to be on the outside looking in. But that feeling of loneliness can, in my experience, create a kind of self-pity, "Nobody has ever had to face this before me, I'm all alone" feeling. So not saying you don't know how it feels in an accusatory way (a la Tom Petty's "You Don't Know How It Feels to Be Me") but in a self-pitying way. I would guess this feeling is especially prevalent in the more self-centered teen world, which is why I think it works better as a teen pop song than it would in other genres.
Quick research reveals its written by Jordan, Keith Thomas, and Robin Scoffield. Anybody know anything about those people? Also Jordan's next song will apparently be a cover of "We Are Family" which should be interesting. Looks like her album is out on Hollywood records early next year.
― Greg Fanoe (JustFanoe), Friday, 13 October 2006 13:08 (seventeen years ago) link
― Grey, Ian (IanBrooklyn), Friday, 13 October 2006 19:48 (seventeen years ago) link
Jordan's version of "We Are Family" is streamed on her MySpace page. Weak during the verse, though with good chop-chop funk accompaniment, but something intense happens in the chorus, maybe it's minor chords where you'd expect major [don't know if that's right; this is first listen], prominent percussion, and a real interesting, strange break where she goes both doo-wop and gospel.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 13 October 2006 20:16 (seventeen years ago) link
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 13 October 2006 20:30 (seventeen years ago) link
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 13 October 2006 20:59 (seventeen years ago) link
― Greg Fanoe (JustFanoe), Friday, 13 October 2006 22:16 (seventeen years ago) link
F-Kog brought up Kim-Lian, Dutch TV personality whose old 2003 single "Teenage Superstar" reminds me a little of Nikki Cleary and on new single "In Vain" goes teengoth in the chorus.
― nameom (nameom), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 13:58 (seventeen years ago) link
― nameom (nameom), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 14:03 (seventeen years ago) link
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 15:30 (seventeen years ago) link
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 15:42 (seventeen years ago) link
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 18:58 (seventeen years ago) link
Then I went to the men's section and it was Phil Collins or something. Are they actually getting US radio play?
― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 19:36 (seventeen years ago) link
― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 19:45 (seventeen years ago) link
― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 19:48 (seventeen years ago) link
― Grey, Ian (IanBrooklyn), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 20:13 (seventeen years ago) link
― nameom (nameom), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 20:53 (seventeen years ago) link
(Can't tell if the "you" in the lyrics is a friend, the listener, or whom. In verse one I thought it might be Jesus, and that still might be right, but "you're the star you're on tonight" seems to be something you'd tell a friend, not a deity. "Like a neighborhood on a city street/I know the path, it knows my feet" is a good couplet - the second half, anyway, the path knowing the feet [not sure how a neighborhood can be on a street, however].)
(Btw, the one track on the original release that Armato and James helped write was "Sticks and Stones.")
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 22:35 (seventeen years ago) link
As to Acoustic Hearts of Winter, I have to say I was disappointed. Granted, the two originals are great but couldn't they have:1) Included more originals2) Tried to do SOMETHING with the well-known carols they covered3) At least made some effort to pick lesser known carols that haven't been done a thousand times before?
That said, "Greatest Time of Year" and "Not This Year" are both on the shortlist for top 10 Christmas pop songs of all time. ("All I Want for Christmas Is You" is number one naturally).
― Greg Fanoe (JustFanoe), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link
Lots of clips from Cow Belles, which was awful.
― Greg Fanoe (JustFanoe), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 00:04 (seventeen years ago) link
JoJoToTo: Kelefa Sanneh mentions in his generally favorable review of the new JoJo album that she samples Toto's "Africa."
Platinum Weird does live session on mp3.com. This version of "Crying at the Disco" definitely better than the one on the album. More fuzz-tone, more Yardbirds, more pound pound pound.
Also, as far as I can tell, the Platinum Weird album I reviewed for the New Times NY sub-affiliate didn't actually come out in mid September, as its publicist said it would, but has been postponed until early next year. Don't know this for certain, and am too lazy to find out.
But, in the meantime, Make Believe, the faux 1974 Platinum Weird album, did get released for reals eight days ago, and is available in, like, stores and stuff. Haven't heard it, other than the three tracks that are streamed on their MySpace page, two of which ("Happiness" and "Will You Be Around") are overlaps from the other alb, but in folkier, goopier, deader versions, unfortunately. Another two songs on Make Believe ("Love Can Kill the Blues" and "I Pray") are also on Platinum Weird and from the 30-second Allmusic clips seem to be sung in the same deep, dull round tones, which are supposed to be the fictitious Erin Grace's voice, I guess.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 04:11 (seventeen years ago) link
Hollywood's SECRET NEW DIET PILLS! They Melt Pounds FAST - Who's TAKING THEM & Who's Not. (Ashlee one of four women on this cover, think it was Life & Style)
ASHLEE'S HAD MORE SURGERY! Now She's Got New Eyes and a Softer Chin. Friends Worry: "Her Addiction Is Out Of Control" (In Touch, the full cover for her, not counting the sideboxes)
Is Jess jealous? She wants ASHLEE'S NOSE! (sidebox in Life & Style)
Interesting that in the short interview Jeff linked above, Ashlee calls herself "boring." I hope that she doesn't mean boring, actually, but "normal," i.e., not newsworthy. I believe her in "Autobiography" and "Shadow," where she says she has a million subtleties and that there's so much more to her we haven't seen. But these I presume would be human-being normal subtleties, ways of being, the flavor and character of a particular person, rather than celeb-sized melodrama.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 04:37 (seventeen years ago) link
― Grey, Ian (IanBrooklyn), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 04:41 (seventeen years ago) link
― Grey, Ian (IanBrooklyn), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 04:45 (seventeen years ago) link
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 05:03 (seventeen years ago) link
Could you say more about "I Live For the Day"? I assume by "structural shapes" you mean chord shifts and harmonic mood changes and the like. The basic song pattern is standard enough: verse, second part of verse, chorus; verse, second part of verse, chorus; break, chorus, finale. Of course, as Lex says, it's MAGNIFICENT (streamed on what seems to be her actual MySpace page), and her "Oh-oh, wanna see you CRAWLin'" at the end is right up there with Jagger's "Black as night, black as coal, I wanna see the sun, blotted out from the sky" in the fadeout of "Paint It, Black" as one of the all-time great song cappers. There are interesting ways that the song throws her from the first part of the verse into the second, or after the first chorus throws her right back into the verse (as opposed to having clear demarcations). And what I call "break" above is actually these extraordinary wails that foreshadow the rocketworks of the finale.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 05:58 (seventeen years ago) link