Good Charlotte: Classic or Dud?

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alex dont yell at me

chaki (chaki), Monday, 12 May 2003 19:11 (twenty-one years ago) link

I didn't yell at you, Chaki.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 12 May 2003 19:13 (twenty-one years ago) link

ok ::stops crying::

chaki (chaki), Monday, 12 May 2003 19:15 (twenty-one years ago) link

http://www.nolifetilmetal.com/Images/edanim.gif

"OH FOR GOD'S SAKE, BE A MAN!"

Eddie (vassifer), Monday, 12 May 2003 19:19 (twenty-one years ago) link

I'm more of a man than any of you muthafuckas, it's so pathetic. Except I forgot to buy tix to the concert. I'm always doing that. And even though I am reminded, right now, to see if it's sold out, I'm still not going to look. Cos I'm fucking hardcore like that.

Ally (mlescaut), Monday, 12 May 2003 19:20 (twenty-one years ago) link

Iron Maiden and Anthrax were the only metal band I liked as a kid, mostly for the humor and the literary references.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 12 May 2003 19:43 (twenty-one years ago) link

Don't get me wrong -- there are PLENTY of moments in the Iron Maiden oeuvre that get me shuddering with palpable disdain ("Quest for Fire" and "Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner" primary among them), but their moments of gloriously hoary majesty positively dwarf those moments. If you can't appreciate the unbridled röcktäcity of "Two Minutes to Midnight," "Number of the Beast," "Die With Your Boots On," "The Trooper," "Sanctuary," "Running Free," "Aces High," etc. etc. etc., than I can't help you, but I pity your dull, colorless existence.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 12 May 2003 20:42 (twenty-one years ago) link

Oh yeah, Manowar did it way better, too. (AND they they had Scott Columbus's customized MARC Industries Drums of Death: "the ultimate drum system in the universe -- everything else is junk"!) But I dunno, maybe I *should* go back and check out those first couple Maiden albums, before what's-his-dork joined up. I haven't heard them in eons or more, I'll admit. Maybe Dickinson DID wreck the band Henry-Rollins-style, who knows? But I'm not paying more than a $1 each.

chuck, Monday, 12 May 2003 21:03 (twenty-one years ago) link

Manowar might be more manly, and louder (and lightyears more rediculous), but their tunes are all so empty, really linear and simple - at least Iron Maiden had some substance to back all those arena anthems up (and enough humour to keep them from making total asses out of themselves). And by all means get those Di'Anno-sung albums, they're the band's best. If those don't convince you, you're beyond hope...

Anthrax have aged very badly by the way, I saw them a few months ago supporting Motorhead and they were just terrible all the way, the only thing I remember was a decent Caught In A Mosh.

Siegbran (eofor), Monday, 12 May 2003 21:47 (twenty-one years ago) link

>>>Manowar might be more manly, and louder (and lightyears more rediculous), but their tunes are all so empty, really linear and simple - at least Iron Maiden had some substance to back all those arena anthems up<<<

Not gonna say I disagree with this (I really don't care about Manowar one way or another; they just seemed to have a sense of humor that Maiden lacked, which is at least SOMETHING), except to say that the equation of complexness with "substance" is just silly. I mean, the Ramones and AC/DC and Motorhead were, uh, somewhat linear too, right?

chuck, Monday, 12 May 2003 22:33 (twenty-one years ago) link

No, I'm not referring to Maiden's complexity (which IS overrated, the twin guitar melodies are dazzling but ultimately the songwriting isn't that adventurous), just that their riffs and melodies were really interesting and catchy in a fresh way whereas Manowar (and Running Wild, for example) only had these fairly old, tried-and-tested riffs and blew those up to huge epics.

Siegbran (eofor), Monday, 12 May 2003 22:42 (twenty-one years ago) link

Does this mean that in 20 years time, there will be a gaggle of over-educated music fans defending Good Charlotte and their schtick (a la Alex in NY's defense of Maiden)?

Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 12 May 2003 22:56 (twenty-one years ago) link

Iron Maiden have managed....what....twelve albums? If Good Charlotte get to album number four, I'll be very surprised.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 01:55 (twenty-one years ago) link

(Don't get me wrong - I'm squarely in the Maiden camp on this one. Why, it was only a few months ago that I was karaoke-ing "Run For the Hills")

Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 13 May 2003 15:07 (twenty-one years ago) link

Fittingly, I was wondering sometime yesterday if Alex was the kind of person who thinks the longevity of a band makes their work better than a flash in the pan's (which Good Charlotte may well might be, though I don't know why that would diminish the quality of the damn great CD I have of theirs, so who knows and who cares?). One of the problems with this mentality is you have to spend hours upon hours appreciating that some crusty nuthin'-better-to-do British clods have been doing something stupid for over 20 years (which in and of itself is less impressive than the Jerry Lewis Telethon, and I don't watch THAT, do I?). If Good Charlotte turn into youth counselors tomorrow, you can find out they were better than Iron Maiden in less than an hour (even if they're career has less endurance...ooooooh)! So you can get on with your day and read some Greek Mythology! Like Maiden!

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 16:14 (twenty-one years ago) link

Yeah, that "Iron Maiden paid their dues, Good Charlotte didn't" argument got under my skin, too. I'm amazed anybody even still falls for that old saw. Alex, Anthony is right: LONGEVITY DOESN'T MATTER, AND NEVER DID. Three minutes of ? and the Mysterians mattered more than 35 years of the Dead or Pink Floyd (or 20 of U2 or the Chili Peppers, or however many of Radiohead or Pearl Jam), and always will.

(P.S.: Preferring Iron Maiden to Kix means hating fun, period. Or maybe just hating hooks, wit, rhythm, melodies, weirdness, singers who can actually sing, and rock'n'roll. Same things, more or less.)

chuck, Tuesday, 13 May 2003 17:33 (twenty-one years ago) link

Chuck, you could take your argument and say the exact same reverse, though RE: Kix and Iron Maiden. It's just as bad an argument as the longevity one.

Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 17:39 (twenty-one years ago) link

Who the hell is Kix? Are they a dub metal band a la the Chambers Brothers?

Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 13 May 2003 17:43 (twenty-one years ago) link

They're really big fans of cereal.

Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 17:43 (twenty-one years ago) link

Iron Maiden and Anthrax were the only metal band I liked as a kid, mostly for the humor and the literary references.
Subthread:
Taking Sides... "To Tame a Land" vs "Among the Living"

Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 17:46 (twenty-one years ago) link

No Ally, cereal is just a really big fan of THEM.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 18:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Well, however it works out, it's all delicious to me.

Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 18:07 (twenty-one years ago) link

Kix, like Quarterflash and Loverboy, aren't as good as Chuck thinks but better than everyone else thinks.

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 18:27 (twenty-one years ago) link

Well, I just got back from a singularly awful lunch with my father, so fuck you all. For a start, longevity doesn't necessarily matter, but my point was that Iron Maiden have already well established themselves....love'em or hate'me, whereas Good Charlotte are still in the process of doing so. Thus, they shouldn't be compared as they are in different stages of their respective careers. It's like comparing John Mayer to Van Morisson or Michelle Branch to Joni Mitchell or the Vines to the Ramones.

There are oodles of bands who only managed one or two decent albums before splitting. That wasn't my point. However, I don't think Good Charlotte are doing anything interesting or original enough for them to milk it beyond album number three. Maybe they'll prove me wrong and re-invent themselves ala Talk Talk or Radiohead. Stranger things have certainly happened. All I know is that to me they're well below mediocre in the music department, and the fact that they insist on dressing themselves up like something they're not only adds insult to injury.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 18:36 (twenty-one years ago) link

But Alex, Good Charlotte are still alive and well....thus they have the opportunity to grow and develop, experiment with styles, mature with age, and become a long-lasting, viable musical entity, unlike the overrated sacred cow that Iron Maiden has become.

NA. (Nick A.), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 18:42 (twenty-one years ago) link

Sacred Cow or not, Iron Maiden are still recording new music. Like a veritable shark that needs to keep moving to sustain its own life, they are still swimming.. You lifted that from a quote I made about Nirvana....a band who are no longer recording new music. No swimming there, I'm afraid.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 18:45 (twenty-one years ago) link

"and the fact that they insist on dressing themselves up like something they're not only adds insult to injury."

Huh?

Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 18:51 (twenty-one years ago) link

I think you all are entirely missing the point, which is this: Good Charlotte lick orangutan nuttsacks blue.

nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 18:53 (twenty-one years ago) link

Jeanne, if you haven't been following the ongoing war between Anthony and myself about Good Charlotte being big ol' posers, may I direct you to practically ever other thread in current activity here on ILM, as it seems like a topic that we've well beat into the ground. I resent the fact that they present themselves like the Exploited yet ultimately make music better suited to Third Eye Blind.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 18:55 (twenty-one years ago) link

I just resent the fact that they eXist, and = sux0r.

Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 18:57 (twenty-one years ago) link

Kix' lyrics were even worse than Iron Maiden's though.

Siegbran (eofor), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 18:57 (twenty-one years ago) link

I apologize for continually using Kix to chide Chuck, who -- it should be noted -- I often disagree with, but ultimately have a whole lotta respect for. That said, his selective championing of certain acts (like, say, Kix....ulimately a decent but largely unexceptional band) and pat dismissal of others (like, say, the Misfits and Iron Maiden) verily stumps me.

I'm also curious about his assertion that Tina Marie is a metal artist, but that's another thread.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 19:01 (twenty-one years ago) link

he dismisses the misfits! wtf?

I'm flattered you've utilized my 3EB comparison, Alex!

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 19:06 (twenty-one years ago) link

No charge. I'm all out of sorts today, forgive me.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 19:06 (twenty-one years ago) link

Alex, why you gotta be insulting Third Eye Blind, they're a fine little act. I'm sorry your day sucks, so I'll forgive any 3EB disses.

nickalicious is OTM: argue semantics of longevity if you want (yes, it's a bad argument, whatever), Good Charlotte still suck; even the song of theirs I like, I went off on pretty quickly. They're like what Blink 182 shits out after a glass of Metamucil, for fuck's sake. They are never going to pull off something as great as "First Date", much less Iron Maiden's best work, because they just aren't very good.

Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 19:08 (twenty-one years ago) link

If Good Charlotte, um, "reinvent themselves like Radiohead" (who peaked on a single from their pre-reinvention debut album), all I can say is good luck to us all. And there was nothing arbitrary about my saying Kix have more fun, hooks, wit, rhythm, melodies, weirdness, and rock'n'roll in their music than Iron Maiden. (If you want to know where all of the above can be found, and more specific ways in which they materialize on Kix LPs, feel free to consult *Stairway to Hell*. Those are MUSICAL values; longevity isn't a musical value at all.)

Kix do have their dub-metal moments, by the way. That's in my book, too, I think. But start with "Walking Away" and "Book to Hypnotise."

And for crissakes, Alex, her name is TEENA Marie. And I said ONE of her albums was metal; I defy you to show me ANYWHERE where I called her "a metal artist". And if you don't understand WHY *Emerald City* sounds metal to me, it might help to read the intro to my book, and the *Emerald City* review which said book contains. It's all there!

chuck, Tuesday, 13 May 2003 19:08 (twenty-one years ago) link

Alex, why you gotta be insulting Third Eye Blind, they're a fine little act. I'm sorry your day sucks, so I'll forgive any 3EB disses.

Who dissed 3EB? I merely stated that Good Charlotte's music owes more to them than it does to the Exploited (a point I co-opted from Anthony, basically). When I "diss" someone, YOU'LL KNOW IT!

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 19:10 (twenty-one years ago) link

...who peaked on a single from their pre-reinvention debut album...

I can see you and I have completely different interpretations of the word "peak". ;-)

nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 19:13 (twenty-one years ago) link

if you don't understand WHY *Emerald City* sounds metal to me, it might help to read the intro to my book, and the *Emerald City* review which said book contains. It's all there!

Ha! Chuck, I love it, I'm going to never explain myself again and just direct everyone to read my previous entries on my blog whenever I say anything (PS I'M SORRY I'M KIDDING PLEASE DON'T YELL AT ME HOW LATE I AM ON THE TURBONEGRO THING)

Who dissed 3EB? I merely stated that Good Charlotte's music owes more to them

You mentioned 3EB and Good Charlotte together=you insulted 3EB. On the other hand, that means I just insulted "First Date", which I didn't, so my theory is rub. Carry on, homeboy.

PS Radiohead's best song was "The Bends", u r all lame.

Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 19:14 (twenty-one years ago) link

And yeah, I think the Misfits were pretty mediocre. A way less catchy version of the pop-punk the Buzzcocks, 999, Adverts, Vibrators, and Generation X had done before them, with stupider words, a stiffer rhythm section, and one of the planet's biggest blowhards on the mic.
(Or if you prefer, the Cramps with all the rockabilly stuff excised, when the rockabilly stuff was the only interesting thing about them.)

Given all that, I don't really HATE the Misfits. And "Mother" is okay.

chuck, Tuesday, 13 May 2003 19:15 (twenty-one years ago) link

I defy you to show me ANYWHERE where I called her "a metal artist".

Oh relax, I'm just ribbin' ya.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 19:17 (twenty-one years ago) link

I think the Misfits were pretty mediocre

Good lord, man, have you never wrapped your ears around Static Age?

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 19:18 (twenty-one years ago) link

>>>Ha! Chuck, I love it, I'm going to never explain myself again and just direct everyone to read my previous entries on my blog whenever I say anything<<<

Well, I don't have time to repeat everything I've ever written in my life, sorry. And since Alex is arguing with my book in the first place (since that's *where* I identifed Teena Marie music as metal), and seems so bugged by it, it might help if he'd READ the damn thing.

chuck, Tuesday, 13 May 2003 19:20 (twenty-one years ago) link

it's cool, Alex. sorry about your lunch. though you shouldn't let the clothes bother you so much. The band I'm currently in is kinda like Fleetwood Mac meets AC/DC, and the one before was kinda like a jammy goth group and before that it was Minutemen meets Beastie Boys, and I've dressed in plaid and jeans since high school (though my hair is kinda crappy and big so I guess there is truth in advertising re: my Lindsay Buckingham fascination). The GC boyz probably sounded more like the Exploited when they were younger (they've been doing this since they were kidz, as they'll tell you), and though their music has become more mainstream - and probably better, they've decided to stick to their mall-punk roots fashionwise and get lots of tatoos (which a bunch of my friends have done now that they don't live at home too!). I mean, Alex, would you want to start dressing like 3EB just cuz you're band got a better budget and was kinda sappy?

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 19:22 (twenty-one years ago) link

actually, I've been wearing plaid and jeans since ELEMENTARY SCHOOL! A good year before I saw a pearl Jam video I've got visual proof that I was a walking grunge stereotype.

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 19:23 (twenty-one years ago) link

FLEETWOOD MAC MEETS AC/DC??!!

Chuck, Static Age is the best CD ever.

Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 19:24 (twenty-one years ago) link

If I was in Good Charlotte, I'd wear cowboy boots, a luchador mask, and a Pope costume, just so nobody would recognize me as being a member of the worst band (that didn't include Courtney Love in the lineup that is) EVAH.

nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 19:24 (twenty-one years ago) link

I simply lack the energy and enthusiasm to get into this today.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 19:27 (twenty-one years ago) link

Actually, early Fleetwood Mac stuff (like "Oh Well" or "Somebody's Gonna Get Their Head Kicked In Tonight," say) isn't very far at all FROM early AC/DC; I believe some people think Peter Green INFLUENCED Angus Young's playing. (Any recommendations on which albums by Peter Green era F-Mac to buy would be WAY more welcome than Misfits or Maiden recommendations, by the way. This weekend I bought *Kiln House,* which is great, but that's Jeremy Spencer, I guess. I also bought a Fairport Convention comp and the first Procul Harum album. Other than that, pretty much all I listen to now is a few hundred CDs that've come out THIS YEAR. Which is why I get so heated up -- TOO heated up, admittedly -- when people start complaining about what I was listening to and writing about a decade ago. I mean, I don't even always REMEMBER what's so good about that stuff. But it's hardly like I didn't write about it *at the time* or anything, you know? I mean, my old opinions are public record, sort of. But why not move on?)

chuck, Tuesday, 13 May 2003 19:38 (twenty-one years ago) link

So are my old opinions, Chuck, just yours are more known. It's not really complaining, I think it was just in jest.

I kinda wished you were writing about cereal sometimes, though. You should work that in somehow.

Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 19:40 (twenty-one years ago) link


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