Rolling 2006 Hip Hop Thread

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I mean, some of us really LIKE rough edges.

― deeej, Monday, 29 May 2006 21:56 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't know about Illmatic, which is what, 10 tracks and 40 minutes? Reasonable Doubt, maybe, or Ready to Die. And certainly Enter the Wu-Tang. So point taken.

― max (maxreax), Monday, 29 May 2006 21:57 (eighteen years ago) link

But I do think that making yr. album impossible to listen to in one sitting--which I think is pretty much guaranteed with 18 track, 80-minute monsters like King--makes it harder to be assigned "classic" status.

― max (maxreax), Monday, 29 May 2006 21:59 (eighteen years ago) link

The Yes albums I like (on my CD shelf right now: Yes, The Yes Album, Fragile, Tormato, 90125) are just collections of songs, too. (Or okay, collections of tracks, at least.) I've never particularly cared about the cohesive and coherent concept thing, and never will. And the rap albums I use as my yardstick aren't by Nas, but by the Real Roxanne, Roxanne Shante, Schooly D, Spoonie Gee, L'Trimm, Run DMC, Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five, the Treacherous Three (six singles, no filler!), and, above all probably, Various Artists. (And no doubt a few other people I'm not thinking of at the moment.)

Most hip-hop Yes song: "Owner of a Lonely Heart," but that's obvious.

― xhuxk, Monday, 29 May 2006 22:02 (eighteen years ago) link

Whats the running time for Cuban Linx?

― deeej, Monday, 29 May 2006 22:09 (eighteen years ago) link

xp And I guess my main point now about separating the wheat from the chaff on super-long CDs isn't so much that super-long CDs are bad by definition as that, by the time I get through them and absorb all of what's there, I've probably long given up on caring and moved on to something else. In an age when scores of potentially interesting albums (among which hip-hop ones are just one significant fraction) come out every week, it's hard for me to see, in practice, how that can't be a consideration. If you're making an album for me, making it too long for me to absorb is self-defeating. And sure, obviously, most hip-hop albums (most EVERYTHING albums) (hell, ALL everything albums) are NOT made for me. But I'm going to judge them by the extent to which they matter to me anyway. Just like anybody would.

― xhuxk, Monday, 29 May 2006 22:11 (eighteen years ago) link

Let me take this opportunity to take back what I said about rap not producing more than a dozen classic albums, in retrospect

Cuban Linx: 1 hour, 13 minutes, 27 seconds. And, yes a classic. But still too many skits.

I have been cowed into submission.

― max (maxreax), Monday, 29 May 2006 22:12 (eighteen years ago) link

Oh and xhuxk, x-post OTM. i suppose we are, in the end, mostly in agreement, I was just misunderstanding/misspeaking.

― max (maxreax), Monday, 29 May 2006 22:14 (eighteen years ago) link

>Doesn't the whole idea that an album has to be tight and focused come straight out of old-school rock<

It comes out of country. And soul. And Frank Sinatra. (And Matt, you may be the first person I've ever heard who suggested that bubblegum albums were especially tight and focused, not to mention a reaction to the White Album. Which doesn't mean they weren't. But I've sure never thought of, say, 1910 Fruitgum Company albums as part of any "rock paradigm.") (I've also never thought of indie albums as especially short, but maybe that's just 'cause, for me, 10 minutes of most indie rock feels like a couple eternities in purgatory.)

― xhuxk, Monday, 29 May 2006 22:18 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't really buy the "different paradigm" idea - most rap heads I talk to reserve their most glowing praise for albums where the killer-to-filler ratio tilts heavily in favor of the former quality. I mean, the idea that one wants one's entertainment fare to consist mainly of the stuff one likes isn't really a "rockist" idea. It's a good-thing-likerist idea.

Fear of rockism is now officially worse than rockism. "This album has too many shitty tracks on it!" —"Rockist!"

― Thomas Tallis (Tommy), Monday, 29 May 2006 22:56 (eighteen years ago) link

deej its got some good lyrics & storytelling shit & jj browns jazzy beats but too many of lou's wack late 90s alt-rock hooks - still a decent record if you like his style, i just kinda wish hed go back to tracks like ugly truth & diablos & mother molesters and less like a million variations on idiot gear

― and what (ooo), Monday, 29 May 2006 23:16 (eighteen years ago) link

so what ever happened to the neptunes beat that they sold ( to nas i think..or busta - cant remember) for 2 million ?

― grapple (grapple), Monday, 29 May 2006 23:29 (eighteen years ago) link

i always thought that was just a rumor & it never really happened.

i can sort of imagine nas paying that much for it and it turning out to be pretty mediocre.

― max (maxreax), Monday, 29 May 2006 23:32 (eighteen years ago) link

xpost download 'rule by a fool' (sick), 'perfect circle' (real lyrical), 'up to no good' (flow switch up). 'classy mcnasty', 'morning after pill', 'beginners lust'

― and what (ooo), Monday, 29 May 2006 23:40 (eighteen years ago) link

xxxxxxxxxxxxxpost:
Cuban Linx: 1 hour, 13 minutes, 27 seconds. And, yes a classic. But still too many skits.

No way! While I usually hate the skit tracks on rap albums, Cuban Linx' skits are gold! It's what all rap-skit-albums should aspire to.

― Chris Bee (Cee Bee), Monday, 29 May 2006 23:56 (eighteen years ago) link

Oh, come on--"Shark Niggas (Biters)"? Just come out and accuse Biggie of ripping Nas.

― max (maxreax), Monday, 29 May 2006 23:57 (eighteen years ago) link

Puttin' they childhood picture on they album covers and shit

― Chris Bee (Cee Bee), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 00:01 (eighteen years ago) link

Although if it instigated "Last Real Nigga Alive" which is for my money one of Nas's best tracks I suppose I can't fault it.

― max (maxreax), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 00:08 (eighteen years ago) link

Not only only person noted to have mention bubblegum albums being tight and focussed, but White Album tight and focussed, although if "after" White Album means W A as influential as an example of how *not* to do it, could be (not that I don't like White Album, but it's always sounded like most of it's "Eh, shove it under the door and I'll add a couple harmonies, and be quick about it, cos I'll have one for you to add on tomorrow.")Not that there might not be some degree of unity I've missed, and I haven't heard many bubblegum albums, so no opinion there.xpost re my prev mention of Celia Cruz,Rockist_Scientist doesn't think she EVER got to "consistently recording in English" (except for *some* club singles I was over-extrapolating from/ talking out of my ass re).

― don, Tuesday, 30 May 2006 19:59 (eighteen years ago) link

The White Album could have been an OK EP.

But if the Be4tles had cut it down themselves, they might have cut out the good stuff and left the bad.

What if T.I. had cut it down to 45 minutes and gotten rid of most of the good and kept all the bad?

― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, 31 May 2006 04:20 (eighteen years ago) link

seward came up with the idea for this on the terrible has rap gotten worse? why? thread, and I kinda agreed it could be good, since i don't have the energy to start threads about individual records anymore. so don't fuck it up with "the state of hip hop" discussions, just talk about records.
-- Alex in Baltimore (shipley.a...), April 13th, 2006 12:31 AM.

fuck outta here with this White Album and what genres make good albums bullshit.

― Alex in Baltimore (Alex in Baltimore), Wednesday, 31 May 2006 04:34 (eighteen years ago) link

These debates about state-of-albums only happen in hip-hop threads, even though everyone always adds that "...of course, all genres..." disclaimer.

― deeej, Wednesday, 31 May 2006 04:42 (eighteen years ago) link

deeej OTM, Al OTM if he's agreeing with me but not if he's not. I like the "White Album" just fine and also think that rap had to have its own 'let's make grand freakin' statements' period just like Any Other Genre In Any Artistic Endeavor Ever, some of them were good and some of them not, some of them shouldn't ever be reduced to suit short-attention-span people, some of them maybe go on too long, some of them are right the way they are, case by case basis, Strictly Business good for its tightness but Walking With a Panther great for its looseness, Common was right to make Electric Circus (expand the parameters) and then follow it up with Be (pare away, get back to basics), best hip-hop album of decade so far probably huge "bloated" epic by Chingo Bling which has GREAT skits and AWESOME guest shots and I can't think of two songs I'd ditch so he was right to do that too, too bad none of you except Ethan bothered with it, please no grand statements by internet people about who "should" do what, that includes me. Except that I like Frank's line of thinking about artists and their self-editing, no rap masterpiecess left on the cutting room floor.

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Wednesday, 31 May 2006 04:59 (eighteen years ago) link

I hate to see a hip hop thread devole into another Rockism wankfest, however I do see the obession about "classic" albums as a response to the (what else can you call it?) rockist trend in the '80s (by Rolling Stone especially) to identify and consecrate a rock "canon."
Illmatic, which has become the hip hop Sgt. Pepper, legitimizes rap for certain people who can't accept the single>>album thing. A lot of the frustration people seem to have with current hip hop is that it doesn't follow the Illmatic model-- running time: too long, guests: too many, subject matter: not "deep." I admit that I also object to the mediocre tracks produced by trying to please various factions-- the streets, the club, the heads, the ladies. Rap CDs are schizophrenic. And even though underground "integrity" can be boring, the last hip hop album I really loved was 2005's "Lost" by Cool Calm Pete.

― ramon fernandez (ramon fernandez), Wednesday, 31 May 2006 12:24 (eighteen years ago) link

All the other good rolling threads (bubblegum, metal, teen-pop) talk about the state of those genres; there's no reason at all this one shouldn't, too. Limiting to "just talk about records" would make it duller. But I'll shut up (at least for now) about hip-hop CD lengths (which I *do* see as problematic now, in a way, say, country CD lengths generally aren't, and hip-hop album lengths once weren't. But I've already said why.)(Though I will say it's also not hard to split 80 minutes into TWO albums, if you don't want any to be lost.)

― xhuxk, Wednesday, 31 May 2006 12:42 (eighteen years ago) link

I meant "country, metal, teen-pop" (which isn't bubblegum enough, as I've said somewhere on that thread I'm sure, though it's improving.)

― xhuxk, Wednesday, 31 May 2006 12:43 (eighteen years ago) link

why the fuck should i pay twice for shit that could be on one cd just so some promo-getting rock critic fuck can play out his corny rock crit fantasies with rap music??

― and what (ooo), Wednesday, 31 May 2006 12:56 (eighteen years ago) link

why the fuck can't they charge you half as much per CD? (i'm more likely to BUY EPs than albums, too. always have. they're less work.)

― xhuxk, Wednesday, 31 May 2006 13:03 (eighteen years ago) link

i mean, hell, don't even get me started on the uselessness of BOX SETS (if you really wannna talk about music for corny rock critic fucks.)

― xhuxk, Wednesday, 31 May 2006 13:04 (eighteen years ago) link

Why not just go pick up a bunch of shitty forgotten rap albums from the 50 cent bin? Quantity is better. You could have 100 crappy tracks for the price of one dope album.

― ramon fernandez (ramon fernandez), Wednesday, 31 May 2006 13:08 (eighteen years ago) link

Ha ha, I do. (And pretty often those supposedly "shitty" albums have some great tracks on them.) (And not just the hip-hop ones.)

― xhuxk, Wednesday, 31 May 2006 13:14 (eighteen years ago) link

yeah i do that shit too - buy 17 dollar bin cds, burn hottest track from each to 1 cd-r = classic 17-track $17 album

― and what (ooo), Wednesday, 31 May 2006 13:17 (eighteen years ago) link

You guys have checkmated me.

― ramon fernandez (ramon fernandez), Wednesday, 31 May 2006 13:35 (eighteen years ago) link

the last hip hop album I really loved was 2005's "Lost" by Cool Calm Pete.

-- ramon fernandez (ideaoforderatkeywes...)

the last hip hop album I really loved was 2005's "Lost" by Cool Calm Pete.

-- ramon fernandez (ideaoforderatkeywes...)

the last hip hop album I really loved was 2005's "Lost" by Cool Calm Pete.

-- ramon fernandez (ideaoforderatkeywes...)

http://www.soundvenue.com/upload/anmeldelse/2006-01/coolcalmpete_25012006_top.jpg

― and what (ooo), Wednesday, 31 May 2006 13:42 (eighteen years ago) link

3 Times Dope

― ramon fernandez (ramon fernandez), Wednesday, 31 May 2006 13:53 (eighteen years ago) link

i didnt know adrian tomine rapped

― and what (ooo), Wednesday, 31 May 2006 13:56 (eighteen years ago) link

Are we about to embark on an "Asians can't rap" journey? Let me pack my throwing stars.

― ramon fernandez (ramon fernandez), Wednesday, 31 May 2006 14:01 (eighteen years ago) link

http://www.artistdirect.com/Images/Sources/AMGCOVERS/music/cover200/drg500/g534/g53456ra4ma.jpg

― and what (ooo), Wednesday, 31 May 2006 14:04 (eighteen years ago) link

Make Ya Baby Daddy Madd

― ramon fernandez (ramon fernandez), Wednesday, 31 May 2006 14:08 (eighteen years ago) link

Are we about to embark on an "Asians can't rap" journey?

But Jin totally merked Professor Green at the Jump Off and everything!

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 31 May 2006 14:21 (eighteen years ago) link

what do people think of the Green Lantern Alive on Arrival mix? i was enjoying it even if the Impeach The Preznit bit was corny.

― yuengling participle (rotten03), Wednesday, 31 May 2006 15:01 (eighteen years ago) link

Dom's Boss Hog review is up on Stylus. Does anyone else like it? Should I check it out?

― alext (alext), Wednesday, 31 May 2006 16:58 (eighteen years ago) link

what do people think of the Green Lantern Alive on Arrival mix? i was enjoying it even if the Impeach The Preznit bit was corny.

I like "Blow His Head Off" and "C.R.A.C.K." (sort of).

― max (maxreax), Wednesday, 31 May 2006 22:38 (eighteen years ago) link

come on man, what about Shotgun Season!!

― yuengling participle (rotten03), Thursday, 1 June 2006 04:02 (eighteen years ago) link

or "Get Ya Pay" feat. the best Bun B line ever, "Just cause ya ugly doesn't make ya hard"???? (remind me again why people hate on him?)

(also as a T.dot resident i feel obliged to stump for the Kardinal track which is kind of hot by any standard?)

― yuengling participle (rotten03), Thursday, 1 June 2006 04:15 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah, "Shotgun Season" is pretty great, but I love that double-time Ghostface in BHHO.

― max (maxreax), Thursday, 1 June 2006 12:43 (eighteen years ago) link

gea

YOUNG MONEY CASH MONEY BITCH
I'm loaded out my motherfuckin mind, ha
shhhhh
that kush
bitch, i'm
MACK MAAAAAINE
unh
Mack Maine AK real nigga(s(h))
real wit the green, no pills, nigga
i bust a nigga tryna sell me some reggie
that's phonier than a fake grill, nigga
chill, nigga

roll that weed
let that burn
s that fire
wait cho turn

babygirl, let's get this shit straight,
jis like yo per(n)m

see, when we sexin like a man
i be
happy you came (u-ha)
but when we sexin like a man
i'm focused on mary jane

your man husslin
but i could tell
he just th(sta)ough(r)ted sellin
but i'm a vet-er-on
with this shit i'm in hellen
(yeah)

now come own, hellen
look, how you gon feed jo daughter, hellen?
when you know your man out (c)here with mo
seeds in his weed than they got in watermellon

but fuck all that
i'm in the coup, baby
with windows tinted
it's indo scented
when people pass by
they be like,
damn,
snoop dog in it?

and when i'm blowin i probly got izzle and tanna wit meh
i chief so much they thought i was from kansas city

i get a quarter pound
betchu i'm'a stash uh O
bitches, be like
boy u selfish
i be, li(ke/ght),
yeah, i no
jeuh

put that work on the table after it's baked up
let me get a razor blade, i give that heart a shape up

― pds7k2 (pds37), Thursday, 1 June 2006 19:05 (eighteen years ago) link

gea

roll that weed
let that burn
s that fire
wait cho turn

babygirl, let's get this shit straight,
jis like yo per(n)m

see, when we sexin like a man
i be
happy you came (u-ha)
but when we sexin like a man
i'm focused on mary jane

your man husslin
but i could tell
he just th(sta)ough(r)ted sellin
but i'm a vet-er-on
with this shit i'm in hellen
(yeah)

now come own, hellen
look, how you gon feed jo daughter, hellen?
when you know your man out (c)here with mo
seeds in his weed than they got in watermellon

but fuck all that
i'm in the coup, baby
with windows tinted
it's indo scented
when people pass by
they be like,
damn,
snoop dog in it?

and when i'm blowin i probly got izzle and tanna wit meh
i chief so much they thought i was from kansas city

i get a quarter pound
betchu i'm'a stash uh O
bitches, be like
boy u selfish
i be, li(ke/ght),
yeah, i no
jeuh

put that work on the table after it's baked up
let me get a razor blade, i give that heart a shape up

― 66666 (pds37), Thursday, 1 June 2006 19:05 (eighteen years ago) link

we on myspace son
we some myspace gangstas son

― yuengling participle (rotten03), Thursday, 1 June 2006 19:41 (eighteen years ago) link

Say, why don't we put together The Poetry Of Rap? You know, like The Poetry Of Rock (1968; Richard Goldstein, ed)

― The Horizontal Lt., Thursday, 1 June 2006 19:51 (eighteen years ago) link

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