When did Doom Metal/Black Metal and the like become "hip" and why?

he attracted a different kind of dilettante/hipster than the ones Whiney is describing.

we are talking historical hipsters tho.

hipsters that maybe needed an intellectual "in" to metal

yeah but Whiney's Sufjan losers are not the same hipsters that pay attention to John Zorn, are they?

xxxxp yeah because before SST defined my 1985, KQRS defined my 1984.

Zorn/early Boredoms could be key here, really. 'Where can I hear more shit like this'? 'Try your local metal grocer's freezer!'

can i remind hipsters and troo metalheads to nominate and vote NOMINATIONS THREAD for ILX METAL ALBUMS Of 2009 (Closes December 20) - non rolling metal regulars welcomed to warm themselves by our blackened pyre of statistics, so plz Vom and Note

xp - but are these the same people that pay attention to the doings of Dave Grohl and Sufjan? Whiney come back!

I feel like there is some crossover among them, but there are separate types of hipsters.

don't forget the "art world" fascination with metal.

There are good and bad reasons for snobbery about metal. Growing up in the South, a lot of metal fans around me in Kentucky really were dumbass racist jock rednecks. But it also crossed over into the D&D store / computer programmer / math league / gamer nerds that those jocks would beat up. So the power fantasies in metal can serve two audiences (power lifters getting pumped before their workout, and wannabe Columbine kids dreaming of striking back). I was into hardcore when I was growing up in the eighties and metal was "the enemy" until slowly but surely . . . it wasn't. Black Flag's "My War" was so Sabbath-like that most punks/hardcore kids I hung out with also listened to Black Sabbath, and while people laughed at hair metal, kids in the scene knew that Metallica's "Ride the Lightning" was cool, Carcass' "Reek of Putrefaction" was cool, Venom's "Possessed" was cool, etc. I was not into things that blatantly called themselves "crossover" ala DRI or SSD's sellout album, but an album like Corrosion of Conformity's "Animosity" was pretty solidly in both hardcore and metal camps. So . . . I've been into metal since Samhain's "November Coming Fire" tour, and I don't feel all that threatened by the accusation that black metal is "for hipsters"- I think if somebody is late to the party that's not necessarily their fault or something. The point is to be discriminating about what you like on its own terms rather than in terms of the bodycount/glamour/hype. I got "Filosofem" from my friend Kris Force when her band was signed to Misanthropy records and I just remember that the first time I heard Burzum there was immediately something really special about it that was emotional and hard to put into words. Am I just another "hipster" because I don't exclusively listen to metal always and only? fuck that. I think it's a false choice as far as death metal and black metal. There's great records in both camps, and derivative crap in both.

sarahel

Using the vague definition of "hipster" meaning "someone who is primarily into indie rock instead of metal" (as my metalhead friends who call me a hipster generally do)

Yes, Zorn/Boredoms-gateway-metal dudes are like an older generation of hipster than Southern Lord/Vice photo book/Matthew Barney nu-indie hipsters

So the power fantasies in metal can serve two audiences (power lifters getting pumped before their workout, and wannabe Columbine kids dreaming of striking back).

Yeah - I'd say that is accurate.

I got "Filosofem" from my friend Kris Force when her band was signed to Misanthropy records

Is this Amber Asylum or a different band? Or am I mixing up people again?

I think it's a false choice as far as death metal and black metal. There's great records in both camps, and derivative crap in both.

same here.

it should also be noted that Justin Broadrick from Godflesh used a drum machine and sported short hair and a hoodie way back inna late 80s.

xp - Whiney - I think the former is "my generation"

xpost

yeah Amber Asylum

oh and obvious point but I would say that Aquarius Records in San Francisco is a great case of people who were always into tons of weird and cool music and obviously a "hipster" epicenter and they have always supported black metal and doom, so if you're looking for who put this stuff into hipster bloodstreams, AQ is one contender on the West Coast at any rate. Cinematically, Harmony Korine's "GUMMO" soundtrack did the same for NYC and stylists/fashionistas, I reckon.

What put me off BM for the longest time was the neo nazi connotations. I know I'm not the only one.

Considering Aquarius stocks Chunklet magazine - "hipster" epicenter is quite apt.

aQ might cater to hipsters but the guys behind it are def long term metal fans, who also like other stuff, like most of us here on ilx posting to this thread really.

I think the neo-nazi connotations are an attraction for the "art world" types--fantasies of an all-white, all-male universe.

Yes, Zorn/Boredoms-gateway-metal dudes are like an older generation of hipster than Southern Lord/Vice photo book/Matthew Barney nu-indie hipsters

i'm younger (29 next month), but i definitely am coming to metal via an interest in jazz/noize

xxp - duh, one is not one's audience.

A lot of hipsters are actually drawn to it BECAUSE of the neo-nazi connotations. Look how we deify they openly racist eugenics fan Varg Vikernes ON THIS VERY BOARD as a hero.

i definitely am coming to metal via an interest in jazz/noize

same here + "brutal prog"

xpost:

we do?

He's the one in the picture with the photoshopped cat, right?

liking burzum the band and burzum the dude are obv two very different things, if that's what you're getting at...

the dude in the picture w/the cat is v cute in that picture.

He's the one in the picture with the photoshopped cat, right?

hahaha. you will have to be more specific. this if the internet after all. ;-)

also: hipsters have been acting like heshers for a decade now (PBR, wolf t-shirts, partying hard), it seems natural that some would grow up and get into REAL METAL

"are you being an ironic hersher, man?"

"I can't even tell anymore."

I'm pretty sure it started before that. Grohl was probably doing it to ride along on it's wave. That record truly flopped though, so it didn't do him or anyone involved much good.

(a) agreed, I don't think Probot was that big a deal for more than like a week
(b) I'm really intolerant of stuff like this tbh, I don't even see where this 'wave' exists - the idea that Grohl had anything to gain in the 'credibility' stakes, circa 2004, by doing songs with King Diamond, Kurt from DRI and Max from Soulfly is just bizarro world to me. I am a hundred miles from feeling like I need to jump to Dave Grohl's defence but I get really het up by this narcissistic thing where people are all 'well this guy has sold eight-figure sums of albums but he's still glomming onto my music, how about that!'

what are the current supposed crossover 'hipster' metal albums out of curiosity

http://tanakamusic.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/vargcat.jpg

Yes!

yeah how do i get started on this poser business

also in general can we cut all the side-stepping around the word "hipster" like it's some ugly "other." I'm so goddamn tired of everyone on ILX being like "I'm fat/old school/unfashionable/nerdy so I'm not a hipster." Jesus christ, we all post on a message board where people deconstruct the meaning of the word "balearic" and transcribe gucci mane lyrics and call Dirty Projectors "boring normal indie" and brag about the blues 78s they found at estate sales. Enough with the posturing already, ffs

Deathspell Omega is pretty awesome.

yeah no fronting I'm a hipster I just want to kno to what to listen to I can get my card renewed

so*

also in general can we cut all the side-stepping around the word "hipster" like it's some ugly "other." I'm so goddamn tired of everyone on ILX being like "I'm fat/old school/unfashionable/nerdy so I'm not a hipster." Jesus christ, we all post on a message board where people deconstruct the meaning of the word "balearic" and transcribe gucci mane lyrics and call Dirty Projectors "boring normal indie" and brag about the blues 78s they found at estate sales. Enough with the posturing already, ffs

quit posing, basically?

man, deathspell omega IS pretty awesome.

xp - Whiney - yeah, it's kinda like saying, "I'm not bourgeois, I'm only middle class."

i'm like 20 min behind the convo because i'm using crappy bolt bus wifi

but general "hipster-approved" metal in 00s was obv, Mastodon, Boris, SunnO))), Earth, Torche, Nachtmystium, etc

There was a short wave did decade that actually went by "hipster metal" because dudes looked like indie rockers and had no chops: Danava, Saviours, The Sword,

Obv, the best hipster approved metal record is Mastodon's Leviathan

i own 2 blank dogs records on vinyl, i am a hipster.

1. Denial — ppl in williamsburg
2. Anger — ppl in chicago
3. Bargaining — maybe if i cop to liking blink 182 ppl will stop calling me hipster
4. Depression — what is even the point of buying this metal record, i'll always be thought of as a despicable hipster 4ever
5. Acceptance — whiney g whinegarten

I get really het up by this narcissistic thing where people are all 'well this guy has sold eight-figure sums of albums but he's still glomming onto my music, how about that!'

hey that's not what i was doing. I think you know me well enough to know that.

but general "hipster-approved" metal in 00s was obv, Mastodon, Boris, SunnO))), Earth, Torche, Nachtmystium, etc
...
Obv, the best hipster approved metal record is Mastodon's Leviathan

mea culpa

add me to that acceptance category - i think i was the first to cop to it in this thread, actually.

Nate Carson should weigh in here, too.

nate was a hipster before any of us who heard all these bands before anyone else and booked their pre debut shows in attics/art gallerys in Portland ;)