Rolling Teenpop 2006 Thread

(I'm afraid that none of those colors has high enough name recognition.)

i think that what is extreme about these people, is an awareness of their own artifice and their own realness, and how those depth bombs of concepts can be used in concordance... (so life despite god, while a masterpeice, is too earnest and not artifical enough, to be extreme)

(so using yr inital examples:
Mariah Carey--her hyper femminity, of course, but also using the edges of her instrument, and the sheer, crystaline, theatricality of that instrument, i want wayne kaustenbaum to write about carey, because in the 1991 period, she made herself an icon of craft, but she knew that an icon was being made, her diva like tendencies were considered to be part of not only an r and b tradition but something else entirely. their voices sound different, but in this peroid carey reminded me of nothing more then callas, and callas knew what she was doing (she was too crafty in fact, compare callas losing aristotle to jackie, with carey losing motalla to thalia)

Napoleon XIV's i have not heard this.

The Veronicas' "4ever" The veronicas realise that its perfectly okay to want to be a pop star and a punk star at the same time, to be coy and to fuck. there are threads of this in britney, but she was never punk enough and in avril but you never wanted to fuck her, and in ashlee but their is an autonomy missing. you know where joe simpson is in lala for example, you dont know where max martin is (does out svengaling the svengali have something to do with this?)

Boney M is not extreme for being eccletic, boney m is extreme for being so fucking weird. personal anecdote, when i was a teenager, i went to offically sanctioned lds dances, for all three years of high school, and there were large group dances, and slow dances, but also a strange attempt to control the eroticism of the situtation, it was the first place where i realised that eroticism of popular culture couldnt be contained, that it was forever leaking over the edges. we would dance to songs that seemed so out of it, so strange, and it shocked me that they were allowed, they included time warp, rasputin, ymca. i still dont know how a song about cruising in the bathrooms of a working class mens club got so huge, and i have no idea why time warp was allowed, but it was incredibly fun to dance to, but rasputin...rasputin allowed all of these tight, hard, cold, scared boys and girls (scared of sex, of pleasure, of the end of the world, of all sorts of things, the culture of the church was always a kind of paranoid fear) to dance in this theatrical, overly dramatic way, we acted int his kind of music hall pantomine, and at the end the bodies were stacked like cordwood into the next song--like rasputin was a kind of heretical mystical reworking of jesus, we were playing the same game, dying and rising again, like we would at the end of the world. i dont know if boney m meant any of that, but the self concicous theatricality of it gave us something before missions and marriages. (maybe thats what im talking about here, self concious theatricality)

Richard Harris' Wrong Song (Donna Summers version is the correct version of this song) the song you are thinking of wrt Harris is the Hive

Lindsay Lohan's video for "Confessions of a Broken Heart (Daughter to Father)" (this is the first video for a pop song that i ever turned off because it was too close to tabloid violence, it isnt reflective at all, and the theraticality is stage managed, the slippages are too raw to be extreme, the blood doesnt come from cornstarch and food colouring; i think what you might be looking for is the britney video for lucky, which does everything about fame that lohan's video does, but more knowingly, or britneys everytime, which talks about internal violence more theatrically) (or maybe im just obessed with how much the wounds in the video look like stigmata)

Johnny Ray (havent heard him enough)

The Shangri-Las were the place i started to love pop more then anything else, it was the place that let me into super pop...the sheer overwrought emotion, the real violence, the silence at the edges (is walking in the sand really about rape?), all makes it extreme, what might make it not is a dependence on authority figures (esp mothers, in the text and phil spector outside the text)

Little Richard for sure (what happens with the exteremity of little richard with the evil hoodoo of pat boone?)

"Ruffus [of Eighties coming back!!!!]... represented Estonia at Eurovision in 2003, beating Vanilla Ninja in the Estonian Final that year ( they sang Club Kung Fu ), at the 2005 Estonian Final during the interval Ruffus sang Club King Fu...this is it !! "

How Did I End Up In Sweden?

Hello my lovely TATTOOED and RUDE Childen!

Skye back here, trying to explain for the 10000000X100000000 time why
it's taking forever to get moving on this CD and start to play
shows!!!
First of all, if you haven't yet, read my new BIO on MySpace with up
to date info about what you guys can look forward to on this
soundfantavelous (that's sound+fantastic+marvelous) record!

At this moment it's 5 am in Sweden, I just got myself an icecream from
the hotel lobby and am totally and helplessly jet lagged. Why am I
here? I have to wonder that myself... but i know I will let you know
when I know as soon as they know, to let me know why I'm here not
knowing at all. Keep you informed!

oxox Skye

Skye in Sweden, somebody call Max Martin!

Would probably have trouble with the news vendors.

>Beyond that (kinda like the latest Pink album, come to think of it; the best songs on that one by the way are easily "Leave Me Alone [I'm Lonely]" and "U + Ur Hand", the latter of which has Pink's most rock *and* most rap vocal; most country song on Pink's album is her sorta Janis-voiced "The One That Got Away," which is nice but'd be better if it had a hook or two), lots of completely pleasant though somewhat forgettable and often wishy-washy midtempo power ballads<

That said, I do like Pink's album, though I don't like "Cuz I Can" (great Wizard of Oz flying monkey background vocals, annoying words where Pink tells us she does what she wants, boy Pink you never told us that before, thanks for letting us know!) and "I Got Money Now" (my notes say: "yucky ballad") or "I'm Not Dead" (where I still swear she sings like Linda Perry even if Linda didn't write it) anywhere near as much as Frank seems to up above. "Stupid Girls" grew on me more for its music than its words, "Long Way to Be Happy" is an okay power ballad, "Runaway" is another okay power ballad though I really kind of hate when Pink goes into her "show tune audition voice" in that one (which she also does in "Nobody Knows").

"Bad For You" on Katie Neal's demo EP is I love you/I hate you codependency in the tradition of Pink's go away/come back in "Leave Me Alone (I'm Lonely)", and possibly even better (also fuller sounding musically) than "Stupid Ex Boyfiend," where her stupid ass boyfriend stands her up and forces her to assert her independence. Those two are best, but the other three tracks aren't bad. "You're Not the Only One" is her inspirational reassurance song to other kids who come from a broken home; she's been there and she knows.

Yeah, Paris is totally relevant to this thread. I've not seen the video, and I realize that there've been several imposter tracks scurrying around the Web, but I do think I've now heard the actual single, "Stars Are Blind," or at least a Paris track by that name. It's got a light feel, beach or summer-resort affability, a gentle island rhythm, somewhere between easy listening and easy dancing. The lyrics are mildly provocative, "Even though the guys* are crazy/Even though the stars are blind/If you show me real love baby/I'll show you mine/I can make it nice and naughty/Be the devil and angel too/Got a heart and soul and body/Let's see what this love can do." Paris's singing is breathy and sweet but doesn't overplay either the cutes or the breathiness. She puts a slight lift in the last syllable of "this love can do-ooo," which reminds me of a similar move by Marit Larsen in "Don't Save Me," though with nothing like Marit's sharpness or amusement. Other than that fine moment, I'd rank this as Pleasant Enough - I'm not gobsmacked by greatness, but it's a good job and it's not hurting my eardrums. And ever since disco came along showing that you could add impact even to elevator music, songs this apparently unassuming have sometimes had a payoff several listens down the line.

*She really does seem to be saying "guys" - a species she'd been denigrating earlier in the song - though this would make more sense as "skies," which maybe it is. I tend to associate "guys" and "skies" because of the summer evening in the early '90s when I was in my kitchen vaguely paying attention to the Olympic Opening Ceremonies broadcasting in the next room, and as the Irish team was promenading around the track I overheard the TV commentator, I think it was Dick Enberg, go into a long, more-irrelevant-than-usual monologue about how the Irish team used to have world-class long-distance runners; he named a bunch of fellows from the old days, back in the '40s and '50s, and summed up casually, "That was when Irish guys were miling."

I'm still really depressed by Ashlee Simpson's nose job; she'd looked way more distinctive with her big beak. This month she's in the new Marie Claire talking about this project she's working on to help girls understand that beauty comes in all shapes and sizes and that they needed to accept themselves and their bodies, talked about her own brush with eating disorders, etc. etc. And then, there she is on the cover with the new nose, pretty and innocuous, just negating everything. But maybe that's part of her tension, why she can deliver the angst-assertion lyrics so well - 'cause maybe in her gut she doesn't know if she believes them, so she gives them something extra. She says "Now I realize, it's safe outside to come alive in my identity," and then she goes and lip synchs on SNL. She sings, "Why should I change for anyone," and then the nosejob.

(The article didn't say a whole lot about the project, except on the day of the photo shoot it seemed to be Ashlee and a bunch of teens getting together and throwing paint at each other.)

- the production is cheap and lame
- she can't sing! and doesn't try! I have never heard any singer anywhere more fundamentally disengaged with a) the beat b) the lyrics c) the fact that she is singing a song - this plus her inability to even try to hit notes makes her vocal performance almost avant garde in its badness. although having said all this the Stefani comparison is otm, and I am reminded that Stefani can't actually sing in any sense either (although Stefani at least appears to have come round to the idea that she is in a studio to sing a pop song as opposed to, I dunno, stare at the cute guy behind the sound desk or whatever Paris is thinking of)
- and yet I love it - it is a genuinely good tune, and all of its negative points are actually positive ones, really.

If you show me real love baby/I'll show you mine

I hear this as "if you show me real LIFE baby, I'll show you mine".

Oh No Ono are from Denmark. Dunno if they're teenpop exactly, but they look pretty boyish. Anyway. You want extreme pop, this is like Clor's 'Love & Pain' gone apeshit. There is this one bit where his voice just goes like the Death Star that is astonishing. I love it to bits.

The Paris Hilton song is a good example of extreme let's-just-show-up-and-hang-around-in-the-mix pop.

Who produced and who wrote it, by the way? I know that Storch has been linked to the album, as has DioGuardi, but I wouldn't necessarily say that this sounds like either of them.

in this respect it reminds me most of J-Lo, whose (brilliant) 'Get Right' rivals 'Stars Are Blind' for vocal disengagement.

I'd be shocked if it was Storch. I'd also be shocked if it was Three 6 Mafia who have also been linked to the album. I never worked out whether the rumours about Missy Elliott and Le Tigre were internet jokes or not. To be honest the production is quite crap? But quite enjoyable? By which I mean, I think it works despite itself.

I glanced briefly over the earlier parts of this thread eralier and have questions and stuff.

1) I have the first Lindsay Lohan album. Is the second as good/better/does it include the video for 'Confessions'?
2) I have neither Ashlee Simpson album. Which should I go for first?
3) What do Lillix sound like? ie, if I like Lindsay and Ashlee and Hilarity, but not Marit or Lily Allen, will I like them?

I'm really pleased and delighted with the Paris single actually! I said in another place that my dream for her album was a sort of Francoise Hardy / Britney DFA track mirrormaze, with her as a sort of Mistress of Ceremonies, cooing and whispering and spurring on? And this'd be a great leader single, for that.

If you're referring to the first single off her first album, I have no idea what it is or what it sounds like; if you're referring to "Papa Don't Preach," I heard a 30-second clip that seemed dreary; if you're referring to "One Word," it's a volcanic, overwhelming dance track that topped the (admittedly puny) U.S. dance chart last year. How Kelly manages to be volcanic while singing in a monotone I don't know (or maybe I do; it's producer/writer Linda Perry who powers the eruption by adding background singing and pretty bells and a good change in the chorus).

Well, they're certainly more like the former three than the latter two (Shanks angst-rock production with weaker songwriting, somewhere between Michelle Branch and Hilar(it)y), and you can stream their whole first album on their site under the "media" tab.

No idea if RAW includes "Confessions" but fwiw I'm starting to like it as much as her first one. xpost

I've listened to Autobiography almost every day for about two weeks, great walking around summer album.

To expand on what I wrote earlier, I think it's just a repeat of the "power pop" fallacy. Both "power pop" and "extreme pop" are actually retro guitar-bass-drums music that are respectively wimpy and MOR compared to current popular genres, and fans feel the need to seperate the music they find good by pretending that compared to "pop," these songs are actually not wimpy or MOR. I actually think most of the music you guys are describing is more similar to "Shemo," a name Todd Burns and some Stylus folks used for emotional girl-pop. It's a term that's less of a blatant pat-on-the-back for the fan and more evocative.

As for which Ashlee alb, the majority on this thread would vote the second while I would vote the first; the second is produced stronger and clearer and so the songs have more immediate impact, but the first has warmer songs, once you let them sink in. I'm just quibbling; I love them both pretty much all through. Note: she's just now rereleasing the second with a new song, "Invisible" (which I haven't heard yet since the Teenpeople stream uses more kbps than my dialup can handle), so you might want to check whether the version of the album you buy has that. Also, to confuse matters more, I love "Fall in Love with Me" which is only on the Japanese version of I Am Me (yet another of the wonderfully dreamy summer songs that's inundating the world). Warning: although she laughs more than she cries and she prefers tunes to toughness and she won't forgo her sugar, she's still a fundamentally earnest confessional rocker, which I think is great, I just don't you to claim that we misrepresent her.

On their first album Lillix were going for a girl rock sound (the female Hansen?), and they made me shrug, but I haven't listened in a long time and might have a totally different opinion now. The new single "Sweet Temptation" is one of the greats of the year, totally catchy and totally rock.

Most "shemo" (yuck! Dunno about the gender emphasis, anyway. It seems to me that women just happen to make the best confessional rock music. Ashley Parker Angel's one good song could be considered "shemo," too) doesn't fall under this category, and the artists that do tend to have the best sense of humor or (in the case of Hilary) aren't really going for "emotional" so much as some weird index of what "emotional music" is supposed to sound like (Veronicas, too). xpost

But there can be extreme self-justificatory pop, like "We Are the World."

it's annoying that the import-to-uk stage of this music isn't happening for any of these girls: i think they're entirely wrong for where the uk market is at right now (a good thing, probably) but i also get the impression that - like many hip-hop acts - none of them are particularly interested. global popstardom does not seem to be on any of their agendas like it was for madonna, the model followed by britney, xtina and beyoncé.

talking of whom - have you heard the new kelly rowland single 'gotsta go'? it's the first song by her where she sounds like a viable solo artist - slow-burning crunk'n'b along the lines of ciara's 'oh', with some fine vocal hollering over the top.

(Btw, I wouldn't call Ashlee extreme, except maybe extremely thoughtful and extremely good, but the thoughtfulness isn't portrayed as such [and maybe it's John's and Kara's thoughtfulness, but I still can't find such thoughtfulness anywhere else in their résumés].)

I don't have a copy of my second book handy, but I think I call Haysi Fantayzee's "Shiny Shiny" an example of "pure unadulterated what-the-hell-were-they-thinking pop" (or something like that) somewhere in there. And yeah, if that's what "extreme" means, I can buy accepting it as a genre. Even the way Frank is describing it, it's certainly no *less* meaningful (and probably a bit more useful) than a genre called "extreme metal." I'm not sure why Anthony thinks anybody is suggesting "extreme pop" means "pop I actually like" or "pop that's worth talking about"; neither Frank nor anybody else here has suggested that all the pop they like or all the pop they feel is worth talking about qualifies as "extreme." (In fact, by Frank's definition, there's no reason one would have to LIKE a particular piece of extreme pop in order to acknowledge or take note of its extremities. And there are definitely some people {or at least some strawmen, ha beat you to it} out there who think some pop songs, say, are *too catchy,* and since they equate catchiness with cheesiness, they'd prefer their pop to be catchy in a much less extreme way. {Actually, I'd put plenty of powerpop fans in that category, but what do I know?}) All that said, I'm not sure I totally disagree with Anthony, either; I'm not sure that "extreme pop" IS a very useful category (at least not the way Frank defines it) (at least not as useful as what-the-hell-were-they-thinking pop), which is one reason out of many that I haven't joined in the discussion til now and may not join much after now. And I also absolutely agree with Anthony that there's way too much falling-for-shemo on this thread. But nobody has called said shemo extreme, as far as I can tell. So Anthony would appear to be somewhat mixed up.

Like I would defend the phrase "extreme metal."

The way I "conceive" of extreme pop, it's anything that you feel like calling "extreme" and "pop" and that has something in it that you're willing to claim is extreme (so of course extreme pop can be extremely wimpy or extremely MOR).

This version of "extreme" is worthless as a genre because its qualitative in relation to personal context rather than a specific sonic, subcultural or lyrical aspect. ANYTHING can be considered "extremely" something - I dare you to find a song that isn't "extremely" something. Name one.