Simon Reynolds is a gobshite

i am so not a big picture guy. or a prediction guy. so its hard for me to relate sometimes to people who are. or people who are always looking ahead to the new new thing. i think its a personality thing. i can take one record or even one song from another era and make a universe out of it. or for it. but i CAN dig a musical outlook/worldview that is more sociologically inclined or anthro-inclined. but broad sweeping statements and predictions and generalizations about what is happening/what is going to happen rarely do anyone any favors unless they are rigorously researched and thought out over a long period of time.

*applause*

i actually made a prediction a loooooooong long time ago and i don't think it really came true. or if it did it came true in some less obvious way that i didn't pay attention to. in the 90's when indie/undie rap was gaining strength and listeners i thought this might translate into more of a worldwide movement of people making great native language sci-fi rap of all kinds. and maybe people did and i just never heard the albums. i just thought that mo wax/stones throw/co flow/etc would spur people on to make rap music that wasn't, you know, major label rap music. that it would inspire people to make rap in their own image. ( i was really probably just hoping that the japanese would do this since one of my biggest hip-hop influences in the 90's was my major force box set) again, maybe this happened somewhat and i missed out on it or didn't know about the great latvian underground rap explosion.

maybe i should start a thread for the best non-u.s. rap albums of the 90's/00's. (yeah there was grime but there has always been u.k. rap)

I disagree with unperson - I'm still very much interested in the "big scheme of things", in any artform. And it doesn't seem controversial to me to say that all genres have highs and lows, and this isn't a high for hip hop. But the more comments I read on this thread, the more muddled Simon's piece seems. He'd have been on safer ground if he was talking about hip hop as a cutting-edge pop form which creates fascinating, innovative mainstream stars, which it has been for many years and doesn't feel like now, rather than ringing the death knell for the whole genre. deej's argument about Gucci seems fascinating to me, though I don't know enough about him to comment.

what does w/r/t mean?

reynolds is a cockhead

"with reference to"

this isn't a high for hip hop

no, it's been a terrific year for hip-hop. i mean no offence but you even admit that you haven't heard much gucci mane, who's been one of the biggest hip-hop stories of the year?

dj quik & kurupt
gucci mane
nicki minaj
pill
new era
ugk
marco polo & torae
pink dollaz
the bangz
raekwon
young dro
unladylike
jackie chain
kid sister

^^after all these US hip-hop artists across the whole spectrum of hip-hop did in the 09, you honestly can't say it was a bad year for the form. and that's just off the top of my head. maybe you haven't heard them but that's your issue, not hip-hop's.

*after what

there have certainly been v. good records this year but it isn't exactly a vintage '94, '99, '88, '03 type of year.

also ty dorian.

Well I haven't listened to a lot of Gucci Mane because I didn't much like what I have heard. I've heard a good half of that list and only warmed to UGK, DJ Quik & Kurupt and obviously Raekwon. A lot of the rest sounds drab and predictable to my ears, so it's not been a great hip hop year for me. But yes, I'll put my hands up - I let my personal tastes slide into an objective judgement in my previous post. Good job I'm not writing any pieces on the future of hip hop, eh?

a hoy hoy - "ty"?

Sorry - it's obviously thankyou. Thought you meant the British rapper Ty for some reason.

you're throwing up Kid Sister as a reason hip-hop was good in 09?

Also, seriously, real good old man rap like Quik/UGK/Raekwon has like zero bearing on hip-hop at large. It's like saying jazz had a great 09 because Evan Parker is still putting it down

lol i'm a bit of a ukhh stan and even i think ty is a bit rubbish

Also, seriously, real good old man rap like Quik/UGK/Raekwon has like zero bearing on hip-hop at large. It's like saying jazz had a great 09 because Evan Parker is still putting it down

― eatin' spaghett' (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 27 November 2009 20:57 (22 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

the mos def album is dope too

Honestly, pointing at the Quik/UGK/Raekwon/Mos Def axis is the rock critic/ILX/rap-blogger version of hilolarious "YOU'RE JUST NOT LOOKING HARD ENOUGH LISTEN TO REAL SHIT LIKE TALIB KWELI" comments

"Old man rap", that's my shit right there.

Mine too!

But yeah, Raekwon doesn't help anybody's argument. "Hip hop's booming! Just check out this sequel to a 14-year-old album!"

Kid Sister made my rap year!

Conversely. the whole Pill/Freddie Gibbs/Juiceman axis is basically just the rap version of nitpicking over chillwave and glo-fi and, again, has little to no bearing on hip-hop at large.

EVERY SINGLE YEAR is a good year for rap (or any genre, really!) if you look in the right places... But AN ACTUAL GOOD YEAR is when the good stuff is unavoidable.

This is basically what I've been fumbling towards, only really concise and with CAPS

yeah that's really well-put

man if you really wanted a rap is dead in 2009 example that ama show with a lame em and a lame fiddy and a lame timbo lamely limping to the finish line was all the proof you needed. if that was what you were looking for. thank god all the man on man action at the end of the show made you forget about it.

i listened to rap all year and found it fresh, exciting and generally had a great fucking time listening to it. also i do not care if simon reynolds thinks rap is dead. thank you.

It plays into what people are saying about the dearth of black artists on EOY lists. I love it when hip hop is producing such unarguably brilliant singles and albums that any decent critic has to acknowledge them, without any need for special pleading. This year, it really doesn't surprise me that P4K or NME or whoever aren't going apeshit over Pill. If there's one single as flat-out great, as say, TI's What You Know, then I haven't heard it yet, and I'd really love to.

i blame the economy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5FwduDXz6k

A cynical person might think that a lot of this has to do with getting that Euro.

Pill's only put a couple of mixtapes out though hasn't he? Has there even been an album yet?

I meant Trap Going Ham, which is a big hip hop tune that means v little outside its base. Album-wise, it's pretty much old-man rap or nothing, isn't it?

q: is mixtape culture part of the problem for ppl like me who try to pay attention to what's going on but aren't devoted enough to download and plow through a ton of mixtapes? i tend to be at my best when i can go to a store and buy a cd--so i guess i am prob a minority that should not be catered to. i feel like i'm missing a ton of stuff tho.

sup yall. i'm trying to write my end of year list but i don't know what the huge standout Hip Hop songs that had the streets 'going ham' were. is rap dead or something?

If there's one single as flat-out great, as say, TI's What You Know, then I haven't heard it yet, and I'd really love to.

― Dorian (Dorianlynskey), Friday, 27 November 2009 21:23 (18 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

why hello there https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHe18yE2kXM

My take on the article, btw: I don't think hip-hop is "dead" because I never thought it was "alive" in some sort of huge society-defining way. I don't believe in mass popcult consensus, only in a zillion simultaneous microscenes that occasionally fire mortar shells into each other's trenches. These days I only hear new hip-hop when I click past MTV or MTV2. So maybe there are good records out there but I'm not hearing them...and I don't care.

― neither good nor bad, just a kid like you (unperson), Friday, November 27, 2009 12:52 PM (3 hours ago)

so why did you read the article if you don't like hip-hop?

EVERY SINGLE YEAR is a good year for rap (or any genre, really!) if you look in the right places... But AN ACTUAL GOOD YEAR is when the good stuff is unavoidable.

NOTHING IS UNAVOIDABLE. (You used caps first. I'll stop now.) Seriously, this is the same problem I had with that interview with you (some of which I liked, because you talked about listening to non-indie, non-canonical stuff) where you claim that lo-fi bullshit by some 20-year-olds in Brooklyn is "the year's biggest musical trend." Seriously? The majority of people in Brooklyn don't even care about this shit, let alone the world at large. I could easily assert that tech-thrash and deathcore are the year's biggest musical trend, and play you albums by Revocation, Born Of Osiris, and eight dozen other bands of under-25 death metal savants. That wouldn't be true, either.

so why did you read the article if you don't like hip-hop?

Because I like Reynolds' writing (he contributed to a book I edited and we exchange emails from time to time) and because I am a music critic who likes to know what other music critics are thinking, even when I vehemently disagree.

Conversely. the whole Pill/Freddie Gibbs/Juiceman axis is basically just the rap version of nitpicking over chillwave and glo-fi and, again, has little to no bearing on hip-hop at large.

― eatin' spaghett' (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, November 27, 2009 4:04 PM (48 minutes ago)

yeah i mean again this only matters if "hip-hop at large" means anything to you. there's plenty of great, classic rap being made all over the place.

and before the "but it doesn't sell anymore!/it's not ubiquitous anymore" arg gets trotted out again - nothing sells anymore! i'm hardly disheartened that rappers can't go platinum anymore when we're in an era in which like, 2 or 3 artists actually do per year

and at least 1 of them 3 is a rapper.

like, last year lil wayne, kanye and t.i. were the biggest releases in any genre, right? and ok, this year won't have anything *that* big, gucci should still be one of the 10 biggest releases of the year and lol black eyed peas are still technically a rap act

gucci will not be one of the top ten sellers, though that'd be cool

Because I like Reynolds' writing (he contributed to a book I edited and we exchange emails from time to time) and because I am a music critic who likes to know what other music critics are thinking, even when I vehemently disagree.

― neither good nor bad, just a kid like you (unperson), Friday, November 27, 2009 4:50 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Saying "I am a music critic" after saying "So maybe there are good [rap] records out there but I'm not hearing them...and I don't care" is pretty much like saying "I don't really pay attention to wisdom teeth and don't really care to... but I'm a dentist!"

And honestly re: my chillwave argument, I'm not saying it's some ubiquitous or popular thing, I'm saying its a sign of the way things are headed. Chillwave is the Gucci Mane of indie rock

Also, it was the first thing that came to mind when i was asked the question and in retrospect, is probably like the 4th or 5th movement of 2009, and not THE BIGGEST

please tell me that you personally didn't make up the name chillwave.

unfortunately i've heard it other places

oh okay it was the hipster runoff guy who did i looked it up.

Not sure if this genre has a name. Seems like it needs to have a name that is ’serious.’ Here are some ideas for this ‘genre.’

* no-fi
* post-AnCo rock
* post-bloghause
* GorillaVsBearcore
* Chill Bro Core [via Butterteam]
* Kewl Boring Music
* Music 2 smoke weed 2
* Synth Computer Pop Atmospheric Wave
* GazeWave
* ShitWave
* CumWave
* WaveWave
* ShoeWave
* Chillgaze
* Pitchforkwavegaze
* Blogrock
* No-gaze
* Blowgaze
* GazeStep
* post-electro
* conceptro
* ChillHouse
* Browave
* Conceptual Blog Core
* ForkcastRock
* Forkshit
* No-fork
* ZanyCore
* Industrial
* post-freakfolk
* freakgaze

Feel like I might call it ‘chill wave‘ music in the future. Feels like ‘chill wave’ is dominated by ‘thick/chill synths’ while conceptual core is still trying to ‘use real instruments/sound like it was recorded in nature.’ Feel like chillwave is supposed to sound like something that was playing in the background of ‘an old VHS cassette that u found in ur attic from the late 80s/early 90s.’

You know, I'm shocked no one seems to be mentioning this about it, but:

If you told me 5 years ago that every hyped indie rock band in 2009 would sound like Ariel Pink, I would have said you were crazy