It's like you married your childheart sweetheart.
― Tim F, Friday, 9 October 2009 14:06 (fourteen years ago) link
haha
― Turangalila, Friday, 9 October 2009 14:15 (fourteen years ago) link
WRT that whole "our taste in music is as biologically conditioned as our sexuality" argument that is such patent bullshit that I'm a bit o_O that someone would even suggest such a thing.― Masonic Boom
― Masonic Boom
Kate, I kinda wish you'd, I dunno, actually read my posts before projecting something rantworthy onto them. But I realize that's not gonna happen, so whatever.
no i'm pretty sure that you can grow a taste for pretty much anything. [...] it's difficult to separate my social impression from my objective musical opinion, but once you make an effort to ignore the "social side" of things you'd be surprised at all the uncool shit you'll end up liking. ...nowadays i never trust my tastes for more than a second they're so likely to switch up on me: definitely not some immutable inner reality.― samosa gibreel
― samosa gibreel
I see what yr getting at, but I think that has to do with a distinction between a socialized/conscious interest in things (a form of superficial taste) and core identity (the source of deeper taste). Somewhat similar to the distinction Tim F drew between superficial taste in partners and fundamental sexual orientation. But, yeah, only somewhat similar...
I mean, think of one of your very favorite songs, a song you've liked for a long, long time, perhaps one that influenced your general taste and that still moves you on a deep level. Makes you happy, makes you sad, makes you wanna dance, reminds you of something important -- whatever. Now try to convince yourself that you don't like it. Try to edit or control your "taste" for that song. I don't think you can. I know I can't, and I think we can't, in general, control this sort of "deep taste". Same goes for songs that you don't just dislike or find annoying, but kind of actively hate. Songs that just rub you the wrong way. It's all but impossible to make yourself like them.
Same goes for taste in food and even people. We can become bored with things that once intrigued us or ashamed of affections that seem to reflect badly, we can aquire a taste for things we once found off-putting, or learn to appreciate things we might otherwise overlook in ignorance. But the basic shape of our underlying core identity, its fundamental likes and dislikes, are much harder to change consciously. The things we love the most and hate the most aren't so easily budged.
And there's no clean distinction between the casual, interest-based, largely social taste that we can mess with and the deep stuff we can't.
― That's not just me saying that, that's the Pentagon. (contenderizer), Friday, 9 October 2009 15:43 (fourteen years ago) link
was going to go withwhite blood cells but then realized i likede stijl better
so i just went with panda bear
― lukevalentine, Friday, 9 October 2009 15:52 (fourteen years ago) link
Look, I just don't agree. I am constantly surprised by my ability to surprise myself with what I like, in terms of songs and music and genres. My musical tastes have some things at its core, but it's been expanding and growing for nearly 40 years at this point.
You can grow up and learn to love non-intuitive music the way you can grow up and learn to love spinach or blue cheese or even 1000 year old eggs.
And besides, this whole argument is a red herring because I am not talking about training yourself to like a song you don't like, or even a whole GENRE.
But if one can not find ANYTHING worthy - in whatever genre in whatever kind of music in whatever kind of culture - that had a female involved in its production - then one is clearly such a bigot one shouldn't be reviewing music fullstop, IMO.
― ...and the wizard blew his horn (Masonic Boom), Friday, 9 October 2009 15:58 (fourteen years ago) link
I agree, but no one on the Pitchfork staff is playing that type of zero-sum game and everyone on this thread knows this, so I'm not sure that's a particularly fruitful argument for you to pursue.
― as strikingly artificial and perfect as a wizard's cap (HI DERE), Friday, 9 October 2009 16:00 (fourteen years ago) link
i just looked at my tentative top 20 for the decade. Only 3 albums have women in the band :/
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Friday, 9 October 2009 16:00 (fourteen years ago) link
^^^^^this is true. and more to the point, insofar as a critic has any "duty" or whatever, they should be trying to push themselves towards doing this. obviously, everyone has limitations and genres and aesthetics they'll never grow to love; but these should be in the minority.
― lex pretend, Friday, 9 October 2009 16:01 (fourteen years ago) link
ha, spinach and blue cheese are really apposite examples - hated 'em as a kid, love 'em now.
I am constantly surprised by my ability to surprise myself with what I like, in terms of songs and music and genres. My musical tastes have some things at its core, but it's been expanding and growing for nearly 40 years at this point.You can grow up and learn to love non-intuitive music the way you can grow up and learn to love spinach or blue cheese or even 1000 year old eggs.― Masonic Boom
This is, of course true, but thing is, Kate: I said that. I said almost exactly that in my last post. And you present this to me as some kind of rebuttal? WTF?
The only way that what I am saying relates to the representation of women on the Pitchfork list is that I don't think angry accusations of sexism are necessarily the best response to these sorts of expressions of taste. Rather the male-dominated character of the list should raise questions in our minds, and these questions ought to cause us to look a little more closely at the people who made the list and ways in which they rationalize it. All of which inevitably leads us to note that, well, it's almost all dudes. That seems like a much more undeniably problematic issue, and a more immediately addressable one besides.
― That's not just me saying that, that's the Pentagon. (contenderizer), Friday, 9 October 2009 16:20 (fourteen years ago) link
Dan is right that this is all getting a bit exaggerated - which Pitchfork staffmember didn't vote for female artists?
This idea that Pitchfork writers are too bigoted even to listen to female-created music is a million miles in meaning and sense from the (much more legitimate) argument that the Pitchfork top 200 has less female artists than would seem either ideal or "logical".
― Tim F, Friday, 9 October 2009 21:53 (fourteen years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.
― System, Friday, 9 October 2009 23:01 (fourteen years ago) link
so soon :( :( :(
― iatee, Saturday, 10 October 2009 00:14 (fourteen years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.― System
― System
Haha. Well, easily one of the best poll threads in the history of ILM.
― Mark, Saturday, 10 October 2009 00:17 (fourteen years ago) link
uhhhhhh
― don't blame pitchfork, blame america (call all destroyer), Saturday, 10 October 2009 00:17 (fourteen years ago) link
mark u have weird ideas
― don't blame pitchfork, blame america (call all destroyer), Saturday, 10 October 2009 00:18 (fourteen years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.
― System, Saturday, 10 October 2009 23:01 (fourteen years ago) link
I fuck with these results. Lol @ Kanye coming in last.
― contraristanning (The Reverend), Saturday, 10 October 2009 23:04 (fourteen years ago) link
15 ppl drinkin the kool aid and thinkin knife made the album of the decade o_O
― National LamGoon's VaJaySean (Whiney G. Weingarten), Saturday, 10 October 2009 23:42 (fourteen years ago) link
Or just the best album on the list? I may not have voted for it but it is a great record.
― Samuel (a hoy hoy), Saturday, 10 October 2009 23:46 (fourteen years ago) link
What Sam said.
― contraristanning (The Reverend), Saturday, 10 October 2009 23:46 (fourteen years ago) link
id be more worried that 15 people thought the avalanches did
― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Saturday, 10 October 2009 23:48 (fourteen years ago) link
whiney g weingarten good job not drinking the kool aid
― fleetwood (max), Saturday, 10 October 2009 23:49 (fourteen years ago) link
what dont you like about the avalanches, pfunkboy?
― we beat so many gimp (k3vin k.), Saturday, 10 October 2009 23:55 (fourteen years ago) link
its boring.
― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Sunday, 11 October 2009 00:45 (fourteen years ago) link
I am actually having some Soarin' Strawberry Lemonade right now.
I highly recommend it to my 14 comrades.
Alternate choices: Man-o-Mangoberry; Oh-Yeah Orange-Pineapple; Eerie Orange.
― Daniel, Esq., Sunday, 11 October 2009 00:50 (fourteen years ago) link
you guys really gonna start an argument about the wrongness of a poll result's poll results?
― iatee, Sunday, 11 October 2009 00:51 (fourteen years ago) link
if only there were some way to solve arguments like this
like a poll?
― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Sunday, 11 October 2009 01:03 (fourteen years ago) link
― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Saturday, October 10, 2009 4:48 PM Bookmark
otm
― the smug persian (The Reverend), Sunday, 11 October 2009 01:30 (fourteen years ago) link
yo fuck modest mouse. how anything that band made is better than kala, which would've walked this if it were top 20, is beyond me.
― samosa gibreel, Sunday, 11 October 2009 02:45 (fourteen years ago) link
also yay discovery
jesus fucking christ― Mr. Que, Sunday, 4 October 2009 16:12
― Mr. Que, Sunday, 4 October 2009 16:12
^^^ This, about the poll results.
― M.V., Sunday, 11 October 2009 03:42 (fourteen years ago) link
informative poll; I never knew anyone had any sort of opinion about Spoon
― see it sounds really lame if you say it in parentheses: (Curt1s Stephens), Sunday, 11 October 2009 04:08 (fourteen years ago) link
Spoon are probably the best rock band of the 2000's.
― Bee OK, Sunday, 11 October 2009 04:50 (fourteen years ago) link
first Rock album at number 8.interesting..
― Zeno, Sunday, 11 October 2009 04:59 (fourteen years ago) link
not really
― kushighway (J0rdan S.), Sunday, 11 October 2009 04:59 (fourteen years ago) link
the number or the interesting?
― Zeno, Sunday, 11 October 2009 05:00 (fourteen years ago) link
1,2,3 are all rock albums on some level
― iatee, Sunday, 11 October 2009 05:01 (fourteen years ago) link
some
― Zeno, Sunday, 11 October 2009 05:01 (fourteen years ago) link
Spoon are probably the best rock band of the 2000's
Eurgh. (Sorry, those dudes bored me senseless at the first ArthurFest and I've had it in for them since.)
― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 11 October 2009 05:03 (fourteen years ago) link
Ned! Give them another chance.
― the smug persian (The Reverend), Sunday, 11 October 2009 05:21 (fourteen years ago) link
Try Gimme Fiction or, even better, Ga Ga Ga Ga Ga. Do not try Kill The Moonlight, which can be boring.
― kshighway1, Sunday, 11 October 2009 05:23 (fourteen years ago) link
Ga Ga Ga Ga Ga imo
― the smug persian (The Reverend), Sunday, 11 October 2009 05:24 (fourteen years ago) link
lol ilm stans spoon pretty hard, you must just not be paying much attention
― iatee, Sunday, 11 October 2009 05:29 (fourteen years ago) link
Inspired by the poll results, I went and listened to some more tracks off of Discovery, and I found one that I like - "Face To Face"! So maybe it's just the robot voices I'm having trouble with.
― o. nate, Monday, 12 October 2009 20:36 (fourteen years ago) link
kill the moonlight is so obviously ahead of their other albums in my mind. so amazing that everybody doesn't agree with me.
― Ømår Littel (Jordan), Monday, 12 October 2009 20:40 (fourteen years ago) link
uh i don't agree nor do i see why this is amazing. tbh the last four spoon albums probably sound pretty similar to non-fans and among fans having different favorites isn't exactly shocking.
― call all destroyer, Monday, 12 October 2009 20:43 (fourteen years ago) link
yeah I find it more amazing that someone could enjoy one spoon album that much more than the others...you either dig the aesthetic or you don't, but they'vene be remarkably consistent
― iatee, Monday, 12 October 2009 20:45 (fourteen years ago) link
*they've been