Rolling 2006 Hip Hop Thread

I don't mean that it can't or shouldn't be an AO genre. I just mean that outside of the rappers I mentioned (and the so-called "underground," debatably), rap isn't known for its albums. Seriously--there are probably a couple dozen or so great rap "albums" (in the classic, rockist sense of album: a coherent, cohesive, unified statement) for all the thousands of incredible rap songs. It doesn't make it better/worse than rock (which itself is only thought of as an AO genre because of the 1970s, which is kind of lame).

Obv. there are exceptions on all sides. I don't mean, though, that rap is inherently song-oriented (although I think one could make a case), just that through the mechanisms of the industry and American culture for the last 30 or however many years, it has evolved into a largely song-oriented genre.

-- and what (an...) (webmail), May 28th, 2006 8:07 PM.

young buck & dj drama - case dismissed
balance - young & restless
trae & dougie d - year of the underdawgs
young joc & dj burn one - gorilla in da trunk 8
b.g. - heart of tha streetz vol 2
anthony hamilton - aint nobody worryin
styles p & supa mario - ghost in the machine
lil wayne & dj drama - dedication 2
bronze nazareth - the great migration
dem franchize boyz - on top of our game
dj chuck t - down south slangin blends
ras kass - revenge of the spit
ne-yo - in my own words
copywrite & dj 730 - hiphop disciples xvii
dj drama - welcome to the atl
louis logic & jj brown - misery loves comedy
the coup - pick a bigger weapon
bhi - the snap movement
aceyalone - magnificent city instrumentals

-- and what (an...) (webmail), May 28th, 2006 8:10 PM.

trilltown mafia - welcome to trilltown
lil boosie & silky slim - keep it gutta
nasty nardo - already famous
gilles peterson & jazzanova - kings of jazz
alchemist - the chemistry files
trae - restless

-- and what (an...) (webmail), May 28th, 2006 10:40 PM.

Yeah, and most rock albums are tedious, too.

I'm not any happier with the albums than you are, I just don't really expect them to be great--all I need is four or five great singles.

Yeah. My point (which has been made a million times before) is just that the "album" isn't some kind of ur-form of music that all genres need to partake in. I don't think rappers should be concerned with making great full albums.

OTOH, maybe I should judge them more harshly because they're trying to make cohesive &c albums...

Sorry if I'm not making any sense.

And although Frank is much wiser than me, I still think of albums as albums rather than EP fodder. I just like searching for hidden gold, I guess, rather than it being right there waiting for me on the altar.

Let me revise: I like albums. I like the album as a "statement," as a collection of songs, etc. I grew up listening to AO rock.

That being said, I recognize (as I'm sure everyone here does) that the album isn't and shouldn't be the be-all, end-all of music. Therefore, when I receive an album (like King) that comes across as bloated, overlong, incoherent, fragmented, it doesn't necessarily bother me, especially if there are--as on King--four or five absolutely killer, top-notch songs, or even eight or nine better-than-average songs. I don't feel the need to denigrate or dislike the CD because it isn't a great "album," nor do I think that hip-hop is worsening because its albums--judged as albums--are increasingly bad.

However, if an artist is presenting his or her work as an album--and T.I. is presenting King as an "album" rather than a "collection of songs" or whatever the alternative might be--I should probably be judging it based on whatever criteria I have for albums--coherence and so forth--and thusly judge it poor: too many bad songs, too many skits, too many guest appearances.

So, what I'm trying to say--the state of hip-hop: great. The state of the hip-hop album: shitty. But they aren't the same thing. AKA--I'm judging rap albums using a rock yardstick because I think the album is a rock thing, and yes, I understand I can judge them with a different yardstick but in the end I don't want to listen to an 80-minute album with 30 minutes of good tracks whether it's by T.I. or by Radiohead or whoever. So--that's to a large extent personal taste.

One last thing: the "rock paradigm" thing was sort of a dumb college-kid thing to say, I recognize that. But it's worth pointing out that in many ways T.I. is a different artist than, say, Yes--that T.I. is concerned more (at least from what I can tell, and obviously I'm jumping to conclusions) with creating specific, well-crafted songs, whereas Yes was concerned (and same caveats) more with creating specific, well-crafted albums. Obv. the role of singles and the Top 40 influences this--most if not all acts above a certain level on the "popularity" scale in the US (or at least, their labels) are probably more concerned with single/song creation than with "album" creation, b/c that's what gets play on MTV, etc. Note again that I'm jumping to conclusions all over the place and everything I say is probably refutable, but--I'm putting it out there anyway.

And FWIW--I have long albums, I've listened to them before, and bands I love make them. So I'm aware (and I'm sorry for not making this clear) that rock albums are and can be as boring as rap albums. Frankly, I don't think the "state of the rock album" is any better than the "state of the rap album." And I can't really say I care.

And it's Max, not Matt.

Most hip-hop Yes song: "Owner of a Lonely Heart," but that's obvious.

Cuban Linx: 1 hour, 13 minutes, 27 seconds. And, yes a classic. But still too many skits.

I have been cowed into submission.

It comes out of country. And soul. And Frank Sinatra. (And Matt, you may be the first person I've ever heard who suggested that bubblegum albums were especially tight and focused, not to mention a reaction to the White Album. Which doesn't mean they weren't. But I've sure never thought of, say, 1910 Fruitgum Company albums as part of any "rock paradigm.") (I've also never thought of indie albums as especially short, but maybe that's just 'cause, for me, 10 minutes of most indie rock feels like a couple eternities in purgatory.)

Fear of rockism is now officially worse than rockism. "This album has too many shitty tracks on it!" —"Rockist!"

i can sort of imagine nas paying that much for it and it turning out to be pretty mediocre.

No way! While I usually hate the skit tracks on rap albums, Cuban Linx' skits are gold! It's what all rap-skit-albums should aspire to.

But if the Be4tles had cut it down themselves, they might have cut out the good stuff and left the bad.

What if T.I. had cut it down to 45 minutes and gotten rid of most of the good and kept all the bad?

fuck outta here with this White Album and what genres make good albums bullshit.