Crackstarter - Gawker crowdfunding the Rob Ford crack tape: good or evil?

http://gawker.com/we-are-raising-200-000-to-buy-and-publish-the-rob-ford-508230073

i seriously considered accepting crackstarter donations in lieu of wedding presents

I don't have a problem with handing over 200 grand to drug dealers for the tape - it seems the greater good is served by exposing a lying, law-breaking, powerful crack-user.

I just think the crowdfunding thing is a way to let all the major media outlets and Gawker off the hook - both financially and morally. they'll all broadcast the tape when it comes out, and make money off it... but they don't have to take responsibility for buying it from unsavoury characters.

I wonder if it sets a bad precedent though - will every whistleblower with hot info start a Kickstarter now? Or is that possibly a good thing - who cares what people's motivations are, as long as the truth comes out?

Or is that possibly a good thing - who cares what people's motivations are, as long as the truth comes out?

not a good thing imo

not hard to imagine crowdsourcing a scandal going pretty off the tracks, I guess. it's essentially blackmail on a grand scale...trying hard to think about this objectively, which is very hard as a Torontonian right now because nothing could be sweeter than seeing this pig go down

it also feels like one of those internet morality questions, like the 3D printed gun thing, that make you think this is wrong but inevitable and unstoppable, so maybe we just have to live with this and adapt to a new paradigm where this shady thing is part of the deal

i don't see the big difference between crowdsourcing a payout for a story and soliciting cash from sleazy tabloids. it's simply the democratization of something that's been part of yellow journalism since forever. am i really supposed to trust people in general less than, like, news of the world? cuz i don't.

I just think the crowdfunding thing is a way to let all the major media outlets and Gawker off the hook - both financially and morally.

Lets everyone off the hook.

http://pixhost.me/avaxhome/05/23/00102305_medium.jpeg

i wrote this on the Canadian Politics thread the other day

after a day riding high on schadenfreude i'm starting to feel kind of conflicted about all this rob ford crack stuff. on the one hand i want more than anything for this to blow up & end his career... on the other hand, it's doing a lot to perpetuating stigma towards drug addicts most of whom are not rich ripely hateable mayors but vulnerable ppl with a serious health problem... also it's kind of a cheap shot, like, this is the scandal that's going to break him? after shrugging off all the terrible bigoted stuff he's said & done thruout his entire career latching onto this kindof lets him off the hook... that's kinda wack

― flopson, Saturday, May 18, 2013 5:16 PM (5 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

acc to gawker the dudes with the video just want the money so that they can skip town & start fresh somewhere else, makes sense i'd be pretty creeped out if rob ford knew i had a video of him smoking crack. not sure if there's anything too dramatic to say about this ito ethics of journalism... ppl must pay for info all the time, right? i think the fact that it's crowd-funded is hilarious

I amv honestly surprised that they have to do this. I always assumed that news organizations regularly threw big money at civilian video of exclusive events. Like, I walk around with my cell camera on in anticipation of someone inevitably doing something horrible in public and I can finally pay off my Ford or whatever. Like, Gawker doesn't hand 200 gs for a crack tape? Maybe its this darned economy. Maybe things are worse than I thought.

opening this up for public contributions is newsworthy in itself, it opens a potential avenue to obtain the tape cheaply, distinguishes their effort from their competitors, and gives them greater leverage in whatever deal ends up happening.

they don't have to do this

haha yes at this point there's ongoing discussion of gawker's crackstarter, as opposed to a maybe half a day of exclusive coverage of the crack tape itself. plus the stories about the tape probably got nearly as many hits as the tape would, etc. etc.

at $131,770 now.
went up about $30,000 since this time yesterday.
Any predictions on when it hits $200,000? I think once it hits $150 or 170,000 it'll pick up speed.

I say it hits 200 by end of work day tomorrow. It'll be Friday afternoon, people will be fucking off at work and it will rally once it looks like it's in sight.

Largely based on his actions the past few days--and also on his track record--I've concluded that Ford is lying through his teeth. I still think paying large sums of money to drug dealers is a lousy way to go about things. I also wonder what'll happen if they only raise, say, $125,000? Do the drug dealers turn it down on matters of principle? Does Gawker keep going to honour the drug dealers sense of fair play?

Did you guys talk about how Ford's chief of staff was just fired?

It's over 140,000 with 4 days left, I would be pretty shocked if it stalls out without hitting the goal now.

This model is predicting it hits 200 tomorrow early, for whatever it's worth: http://kodonnell.ca/tmp/gawker-indigogo-will-it-fund.php

xp clem iirc if you don't hit the target indiegogo automatically gives back the money

sorry - the model is predicting early Saturday

hopefully we can blow up the entire earth before that has a chance to happen

everyone open yr can of beans

First images released!

http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2013/04/13/marion-barry-68b733933b6fba72b571890df4d1d60dfc0e4f99.jpg

Oh, wait. Wrong mayor.

Did you guys talk about how Ford's chief of staff was just fired?

― polyphonic, Thursday, May 23, 2013 2:52 PM (2 hours ago)

Escorted out of the building by security, supposedly, no explanation whatsoever given. Meanwhile, a columnist at the right-wing Toronto Sun wonders why Ford hasn't aggressively sued the Toronto Star over the story.

Yes, that's a real puzzler--what could possibly be giving him pause?

Maybe I'm wrong, but I read that "why not sue?" op-ed was the Sun's way of acknowledging that his failure to sue could only mean one thing: he did it. They also ran an "explain or resign" editorial today.

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/straighttalk/archives/2013/05/20130523-072740.html
"So why hasn't he sued? The answer likely lies in the fact that as between Ford and the Star, only Ford knows if he has smoked crack and if there might be an authentic video. If he sues and the video surfaces and is authenticated, he'd lose and be stuck with a fortune in legal fees. But if the video is a fake Ford should win a large award."

Also, if he sues, then can't the video be subpoenaed as evidence?

The lead editorial was unambiguously a plea for Ford to start talking. The other columnist, though--Alan Shanoff--I found him a little ambiguous. My interpretation is that he's whistling past the graveyard, presenting both possibilities but starting from an assumption of Ford's innocence. But maybe you're right--he may also be coyly suggesting Ford's guilt.

xp clem iirc if you don't hit the target indiegogo automatically gives back the money

indigogo let's the fundraiser choose:

Your Money, Your Choice

Keep all the money you raise, even if you don't meet your goal. Or, opt for Fixed Funding and only keep your money if your campaign reaches its goal.

lets

(although it looks like they chose the fixed funding model in this case)

No "If the goal is not met, I want my money to be handed over to the drug dealers anyway, for their courage and civil-mindedness in bringing this matter to light" option.

xxxp yeah - Shanoff definitely playing it like he accepts Ford's innocence, but I think unwinding the "why not sue?" argument - and explaining exactly how all-in The Star went on it and how vulnerable they would be if this was false - is actually a great way to say to Sun readers that it's time to accept that Ford did it. Maybe I'm reading too much into it.

Somebody just kicked in $10,000 and claimed the phone Gawker had offered as a prize.

Gawker walking it back hardcore - this update just posted sounds like they don't think they'll get the tape: http://gawker.com/rob-ford-crackstarter-update-509596078

over 160k now!! i don't think they're back tracking, just acknowledging that they/we might not get it.

and it seems Towhey was fired for telling Ford to get help. that will probably be the front pages tomorrow.

Crackstarter Update: You're buying someone a lot of crack

Rob has officially opened his mouth, denied everything and blamed the Star. now we can anticipate the usual post-Ford-talking crackstarter bump.

Carefully chosen verb tenses:

http://www2.macleans.ca/2013/05/24/transcript-rob-fords-statement-to-media-on-crack-allegations/

"I do not use crack cocaine, nor am I an addict of crack cocaine."

Depends which meaning of "use" you use.

"I do not use crack cocaine (to season my food), nor am I am addict of crack cocaine (but rather one primarily of water and carbon)"

"I do not currently have crack cocaine in my system. I think."

"As for a video, I cannot comment on a video that I have never seen or does not exist."

"Or," not "nor." Because if it were "nor," commenting would be pretty easy. By the way, if you've never seen footage of Ford, you won't appreciate how unbelievably right it would be if Chris Farley were around to play him in an SNL sketch.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/globe-investigation-the-ford-familys-history-with-drug-dealing/article12153014/

hashstarter?

I went to a film last week with an old high-school friend, and, no lie, this is close to exactly what he told me (he mentioned Rob and Doug, but not the other brothers)--what he'd been told by other friends, I should mention, not anything he had direct knowledge of. I didn't post anything here because it seemed irresponsible and, for all I know, slanderous. (Not that the Ford brothers have their lawyers monitoring ILX.) But the Globe story kind of brushes such concerns aside.

I don't read the Globe--they're still basically to the right, no? As dogged and stubborn as Ford has been so far, I'd be surprised if he doesn't step down within a week or two.

The Globe endorsed Rob Ford, they are right-leaning.

Highly doubt either of them will step down though - it would take undeniable physical evidence or criminal charges, neither of which seem likely right now. . There's still no proof of anything - not even a named source in either the crack or the hash story, so they have deniability.

Short of the video getting out, I think they're probably okay from a legal standpoint, yes. But I suspect the pressure to resign--more from their own side than the other--will begin to spiral out of control.

it's possible but given their history and tenacity, i don't see them caving in ever if they don't absolutely have to. these dudes don't wanna go back to running the label factory any time soon

the hand wringing over paying for stories is pretty ridiculous, news companies make big money off these things but if any source were to get a cut its a huge lol moral outrage, reminds me of a contorted logic behind not paying college athletes, only thing that matters imho is that the story is true

I think the key will be Holyday and the other conservatives on City Council. (I never follow municipal politics, suddenly I'm an expert.) Nixon was ready to fight impeachment all the way until Goldwater made it clear to him that he had next to no support within the party anymore, at which point he accepted the inevitable. That's a bit different--in Nixon's case, that would have had a direct bearing on impeachment hearings, and Ford doesn't face that--but Nixon was also famous for his stubbornness.

If they decide to dig in, should be quite a spectacle. I don't think things would ever settle down for the rest of their term...I imagine people would be coming out the woodwork the whole rest of the way. ("I did some ether with Doug Ford in 1988!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EykpGoXyKVg

One thing where I'm torn was his decision to run for council after he dropped out of the mayoral race. I volunteered for his main opponent, who did end up finishing second. It was selfish for Ford to run, everyone knew that, but I can also understand that in his circumstances, maybe he or his family felt that remaining active would have some therapeutic value. I wonder how Andray Domise is feeling today. (He tweeted something very gracious, but I'm sure there are mixed feelings there.)

According to some narratives, Ford's true plunge into the deep end of substance abuse came in the wake of the death of his own father. I can't help but feel that somewhere in this timeframe Ford became aware of his own mortality, not in the abstract grief counselling sense, but in the very real sense that cancer already had its hooks in him.

I disliked Ford immensely, but he joins the pantheon of fellow Toronto artists who truly succeeded at exposing something of the city's hidden history, a city often noted for the safe, polite narratives of its elites and its media. As an artist, he joins David Cronenberg in chronicling the seething body horror of sprawling 1980s Toronto. He joins the band Rush in documenting the hodgepodge of Tolkien, Ayn Rand, and suburban teenage loneliness that, for those of a certain age, may have stood in for coherent politics (and what's more, possibly fed anxiety about the Cronenbergian horror at the limit case of all politics, coherent or otherwise).

if you ask me, he ran for reelection because a) he needed a paycheck while he probably wouldn't be able to work much b) Deco (his family business) did not want him and is likely not doing well financially C) it's all he really knows D) he wants to stay in any kind of limelight he can.

got to wonder if the constant media hype and clickbait idolization didn't drive him further into addiction.

Gawker is basically an enabler but worse than just an enabler one that doesn't even try to be your friend but wholly profits off your self destruction

Gawker totally helped kill this guy early, I don't think there can be any doubt about it

I like the way Tory is handling this. (I do like Tory so far; I think I'm incapable of ever actually voting for a conservative, but I think he's our version of John Lindsay on the spectrum, at least socially.) Whatever the family wants in the way of a civic ceremony, sounds like he's talking to them and deferring to their wishes.

Gawker is not responsible for anything ford wasn't already way ahead of them in doing to himself.

Right. Gawker went to crazy lengths to blow that shit up into the public sphere, and doing so put that guy's demons on full display for the world. I remember how we all laughed at him falling apart. Well, not me, it made me sick to my stomach. Now he's dead.

"So? That's not going to affect anyone, especially a guy who's clearly struggling with some deep shit. Bring on the LOLs!"

there can and is and should be doubt about whether gawker killed rob ford early, what the fuck

had cbc on in the background last night and caught a little bit of the news and the national, both mentioning ford's death obviously, and just found that both were way too deferential. they don't need to do a hatchet job on a guy who just died but casting it as an almost purely human interest story with the only marginally critical elements of the broadcasts being referring to him as "polarizing" or mentioning that he "struggled with substance abuse issues" is just way too polite, even for canada.

xp

Why? I've seen people get similar treatment and it, oddly enough, led to things like suicide, death from excessive drug and alcohol use, etc. Treating people like sacks of garbage for personal amusement ... ehhh, tends not to be something that has a positive or neutral impact on the life of another.

guy was a huge drug addict with an exploding scandal whether or not gawker -- and a whole shitload of other US based media -- decided to take an interest in toronto politics all of a sudden

i don't think cancer cares much about any of that. if you want to make a case that the added ridicule led to increased stress which sapped his body's ability to fight, idk, maybe talk to his doctors and see if you're on the right track

You know I'm at least little right, you just don't want to admit to yourself, because it's pretty sick stuff.

my god

xp lol. you're not right. if the mayor of the fourth largest by population city in north america has substance abuse issues it's a perfectly legitimate story for press to cover. the press coverage was even fairly sympathetic, i.e. "lol look at this incorrigible mayor who boozes like crazy and smokes crack"

You know I'm at least little right, you just don't want to admit to yourself, because it's pretty sick stuff.

― larry appleton, Wednesday, March 23, 2016 4:00 PM (7 minutes ago)

sick stuff. sad!

he wasn't exactly going to rehab and cleaning up his act before anything was published

he died of cancer. cancer doesn't read gawker.

cancer stopped reading after caity left iirc

gawker is cancer

for the record - i never laughed about any of the crack stuff. what make me sick was that a drunk driving pathological lair could hold office and have such a rabid following in the first place. he humiliated the entire city and reveled in the attention. that's what was sickening about all this. i was embarrassed. as well as insulted and angry when he refused to step down, he obviously was not going to get any work done at all (not that he was killing it in the first place). it was no secret he'd been doing this for a long time and he was not capable of changing. none of that is gawkers fault.

Pretty much this.

CP24 coverage was pretty awful in glossing any number of his gross and shameful incompetence in office, and his reactionary and regressive policies (god, remember the whole ferris wheel thing), not to mention his principally unrepentant taunting of both law and common decency, as "some people had political differences". Not surprised, but still disgusted, that him being wildly unpopular and controversial in the worst ways becomes "a marginal section disagrees with his politics (not to mention everything else)"

Also, You know I'm at least little right, you just don't want to admit to yourself is super trolly in its transformation of misunderstanding into self-righteousness, for any of the reasons listed above.

gawker is cancer

― Οὖτις, Wednesday, March 23, 2016 4:30 PM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

well, then we're halfway to curing it, then.

(then, then)

i am no defender of gawker, but if a mayor of a major city is out there smoking crack there is nothing for the media to do except report on it. this wasn't a conde nast executive situation.

nice of gawker to elect rob ford into public office

i am no defender of gawker, but if a mayor of a major city is out there smoking crack there is nothing for the media to do except report on it. this wasn't a conde nast executive situation.

Crackstarter. End of story.

Isn't Balky needing help with something

No

I'm going to smoke some weed, this shit's bumming me out. RIP Rob Ford and Balky.

Great piece:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ivortossell/rob-ford-the-honest-liar#.sgOv3m1Q7

feeling this one a lot: http://tvo.org/article/current-affairs/shared-values/andray-domise-the-rob-ford-legacy-that-many-refuse-to-confront

I remember how we all laughed at him falling apart. Well, not me, it made me sick to my stomach.

"I remember when we all did that terrible thing. Well, not me, I'm awesome."

Wow, Domise is a great writer for a politician.

Just got a fundraising e-mail from Domise about a community project that started a while ago. I hope he runs in the by-election (when?), hope he wins, and I may volunteer again. But he should hold off on e-mails for at least a little while.

This is terrifying (from the Buzzfeed article above):
" hired as his personal driver a drug-dealing friend who was convicted of threatening to kill a woman, and who carried around a vial of bedbugs as a threat to his enemies; "

what's terrifying is how much support he continued to enjoy.

New Yorker piece about Ford as a blueprint for Trump. (New piece--there's a similar one that was written a year or two ago.)

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-calculated-populism-of-rob-ford

A few months ago, I should say--it only feels like two years of candidate Trump.

Robyn Doolittle, lead reporter in the crack story who went on to write Crazy Town:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/my-relationship-with-rob-ford-its-complicated/article29397563/

Older brother--who, as I'm sure I've said before on this thread, I consider even worse--says a by-election should be called immediately (because that's what Rob would have wanted), and he's "not sure" yet if he will run.

I hope, but sincerely doubt, he'll sit this one out. The seat should be contested by the people who ran last time in an impossible situation: Ford had gone public with his cancer, so everybody running against him had to almost abstain from saying anything critical out of common decency. (I don't think he was in rehab yet.) Absent Ford, I think Domise will run and win, but there was another woman in her early 20s who did quite well too. Putting the ward and the city through another Ford election and another Ford term on council is disheartening in so many ways. (If nothing else, I assume this campaign would be substantially uglier than last time.) If he does run, he'll win. Ugh.

at least if he gets in as a councilor it means he can't run for the PC leadership. i really fucking hope that party has learned it's lesson with Hudak, that they need to move towards the center and not away from it. would love to be able to consider them an option again.
on the other hand, i don't think he stands a chance with the PCs, whereas councilor would be a cakewalk for him. but - the people of ward 2 made their bed when the voted in a very obviously sick (in every sense of the word) rob ford. they've basically being going without real representation for a decade now anyways – what's another two years.

Yeah, I'm of the second view: he'd never win provincially (an election, I mean--I guess he could get the nomination), so I'd rather have him go that route.

Little Nephew Jr. running; what a drag. Part of me wants Domise to take a chance, most of me says don't bother.

http://www.thestar.com/news/city_hall/2016/05/04/byelection-to-be-held-to-fill-rob-fords-seat.html

lil guy

according to that article his birth name is Michael Stirpe

I'm glad they're rewriting the fact that it was a female reporter who investigated Rob Ford. Why have a woman be a lead character when a man could do it? Ammaright? https://t.co/Nx3holhuZW

— robyndoolittle (@robyndoolittle) April 10, 2018

srsly

caroline dhavernas is even canadian!

https://giphy.com/gifs/television-hannibal-3cXQ1pfu2Vf3O

Thermo and I are to blame.

at least if (Doug) gets in as a councilor it means he can't run for the PC leadership. i really fucking hope that party has learned it's lesson with Hudak, that they need to move towards the center and not away from it. would love to be able to consider them an option again. on the other hand, i don't think he stands a chance with the PCs...

― Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Friday, April 1, 2016

Yeah, I'm of the second view: he'd never win provincially (an election, I mean--I guess he could get the nomination), so I'd rather have him go that route.

― clemenza, Saturday, April 2, 2016