The world is getting smaller and I don't think we are going to have room soon enough to play our little English games with other people's words. I never knew that India's actual name was Bhārat Gaṇarājya until today! Why do we continue to live like this? Who are we trying to fool by calling Zhōngguó "China"? "Japan", man? Do I understand you to mean "Nippon", sir? Can I ask a friend to join me at a Bhārat restaurant the next time I crave Aloo Ghobi, or will I sound like a douche?
― stURGEON & musKEY (how's life), Wednesday, 19 September 2012 16:24 (9 months ago) Permalink
I like the (not often used lately afaik) Japanese exonym for America: 米国 - beikoku (literally, rice country).
― clouds, Wednesday, 19 September 2012 16:36 (9 months ago) Permalink
is 米国 japanese though? what is used more often?
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 19 September 2012 17:12 (9 months ago) Permalink
مصر(Masr) instead of Egypt (though it used to be Kemet).
― The windiest militant trash (Michael White), Wednesday, 19 September 2012 17:13 (9 months ago) Permalink
Munchen, Firenze, Wien, ...
― pun lovin criminal (polyphonic), Wednesday, 19 September 2012 17:15 (9 months ago) Permalink
In my heart, Livorno shall always be Leghorn.
― Aimless, Wednesday, 19 September 2012 17:19 (9 months ago) Permalink
to play our little English games with other people's words
This practice is by no means limited to Anglophones, btw.
― The windiest militant trash (Michael White), Wednesday, 19 September 2012 17:37 (9 months ago) Permalink
I remember as a kid thinking it was weird that in the 3 languages I could speak (English, French, German), the name for Germany was completely different. I've since sort of figured out why this is, but it still bothers me a bit.
― aspiring barkitect (silverfish), Wednesday, 19 September 2012 17:50 (9 months ago) Permalink
whoever decided osterreich --> austria, good marketing move.
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 19 September 2012 17:56 (9 months ago) Permalink
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_Germany
― aspiring barkitect (silverfish), Wednesday, 19 September 2012 17:56 (9 months ago) Permalink
Trying to think of some New World localities for which there are common Anglicized spellings:
Guatemala CityMexico CityPanama CityQuebec CityBrazilFrench GuianaDominican Republic
Most of these have been Anglicized, though, because they contain common English words (city, republic). Cases like Brazil (Brasil) seem to be rare.
― Sandy Denny Real Estate (jaymc), Wednesday, 19 September 2012 18:02 (9 months ago) Permalink
Romanian: Germania
Romania keeping the Empire alive
― hail dayton (brownie), Wednesday, 19 September 2012 18:03 (9 months ago) Permalink
In French, le Mexique is the country and Mexico is Mexico City.
― The windiest militant trash (Michael White), Wednesday, 19 September 2012 18:07 (9 months ago) Permalink
In French, several U.S cities and states are called by their French language equivalents (la Floride, la Nouvelle-Orléan, Nouvelle-Angleterre, etc.)
― aspiring barkitect (silverfish), Wednesday, 19 September 2012 18:12 (9 months ago) Permalink
― clouds, Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:36 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I always found it funny/interesting that Korea uses 美 (beautiful) while Japan uses 米 (rice), given they are both pronounced the same (in Korean at least -- is this the case with Japan?)
I am confused about 國 and 国 ... are these the same thing? or they just mean the same thing?
― rayuela, Wednesday, 19 September 2012 18:12 (9 months ago) Permalink
la Floride, la Nouvelle-Orléans, Nouvelle-Angleterre
tbf, Florida and New Orleans were names that predate their being primarily anglophone places and la Nouvelle-Orléans is the original name of the town. Similarly francisized are names like Californie and Virginie.
― The windiest militant trash (Michael White), Wednesday, 19 September 2012 18:21 (9 months ago) Permalink
It took me awhile in Mexico (the country) to get used to seeing roadsigns pointing toward "MEXICO" (the city.)
People always mention New York, New York, or just plain "Juarez", but you never hear anyone talk about Oklahoma, Oklahoma.
(Yes, I know that's because NYC's name is officially "New York", not that it matters in this sort of thing.)
― pplains, Wednesday, 19 September 2012 18:25 (9 months ago) Permalink
― pplains, Wednesday, 19 September 2012 18:28 (9 months ago) Permalink
Similarly, in Spanish: Nueva York, Filadelfia
― Sandy Denny Real Estate (jaymc), Wednesday, 19 September 2012 18:29 (9 months ago) Permalink
What happens to cyberpunk cities like NeoTokyo or NeoJersey?
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 19 September 2012 18:36 (9 months ago) Permalink
Shouldn't it be called "York Nuevea" when you get right down to it?
― pplains, Wednesday, 19 September 2012 18:41 (9 months ago) Permalink
man my local weathercast is just not... yeah.
― j., Wednesday, 19 September 2012 18:42 (9 months ago) Permalink
Well, sure, I'll start using those names the day that we can go back to calling the country that I live in Lloegyr.
― The Kelvin Helmholtz Instability (White Chocolate Cheesecake), Wednesday, 19 September 2012 19:03 (9 months ago) Permalink
Nah, there's some flexibility in Spanish with adjective placement. Place names with "Nueva" generally start with it.
― Sandy Denny Real Estate (jaymc), Wednesday, 19 September 2012 19:12 (9 months ago) Permalink
How come it's Ciudad Juarez on one side and Nueva York on the other?
― pplains, Wednesday, 19 September 2012 19:52 (9 months ago) Permalink
Though I guess Juarez is more a name for the city than it is an adjective.
― pplains, Wednesday, 19 September 2012 19:54 (9 months ago) Permalink
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, September 19, 2012 5:12 PM (Yesterday)
again, afaik: アメリカ (amerika). at least that's what's on all the maps in my japanese textbooks.
i think 国 is the simplified form of 國 -- they have the same pronunciations. can anyone verify?
― clouds, Thursday, 20 September 2012 01:11 (8 months ago) Permalink
i've also heard that the japanese couldn't hear the "a" in "america" when said by english speakers because the initial "ah" sound is so short, so they heard "'merica"
― clouds, Thursday, 20 September 2012 01:16 (8 months ago) Permalink
right. 國 is cool because it retains the phonetic element 或 that lets you guess at the pronunciation of the character. 国 is old, too, and there were lots of variants of the character that you could come across if you read old old chinese stuff.
both forms are pronounced the same, i guess, but they're pronounced different in all the languages we're talking about
guó in mandarin, gwok in cantonese, goku in japanese (right?), or guk in korean (a place where the pronunciation might be based on the chinese character but it would be more likely to be written in hangeul) (and would it be người in vietnamese?)
― dylannn, Thursday, 20 September 2012 01:58 (8 months ago) Permalink
how can you know all those languages?
― horribl ecreature (harbl), Thursday, 20 September 2012 02:02 (8 months ago) Permalink
you don't have to! chinese script is the uniting thing with these languages. it would be like tracing a latin or greek root as it leads to romance languages and beyond.
look at all those similar pronunciations. if you sit down to learn korean or vietnamese with the ability to read chinese, you are always looking for those words that share pronunciation or have similar pronunciation across languages. vietnamese nouns, for example = 60-70% chinese vocab. so, if you figure out how chinese characters were pronounced in vietnamese or korean, you can make huge headway.
there aren't that many unique sounds in chinese (or reading of chinese script), so if you figure out the rule that UO in mandarin = UK in korean-- well, it's actually going to get you into trouble because the rule isn't going to hold, but it's interesting linguistic trainspotting or whatever.
― dylannn, Thursday, 20 September 2012 02:09 (8 months ago) Permalink
also, i think i'm totally wrong on the vietnamese thing there. but i'm banking on the lack of vietnamese speakers on ilx to cover myself.
― dylannn, Thursday, 20 September 2012 02:15 (8 months ago) Permalink
it should be quốc-- which again looks like the cantonese or korean pronunciation of the character!
anyways. back to endonyms!
― dylannn, Thursday, 20 September 2012 02:17 (8 months ago) Permalink
goku in japanese (right?)
it's koku (han pron.) or kuni (native japanese pron.)
― clouds, Thursday, 20 September 2012 03:59 (8 months ago) Permalink
best thread!!!!
― JacobSanders, Thursday, 20 September 2012 04:06 (8 months ago) Permalink
you may ask yourself why your idea has not caught on
http://weather.sg.msn.com/region.aspx?wealocations=Chos%C5%8Fn-minjuju%C5%ADi-inmin-konghwaguk
I give you some weather
― El Tomboto, Thursday, 20 September 2012 04:14 (8 months ago) Permalink
also: who gets the rights to tell germany what its real name is? or scotland? etc.
― El Tomboto, Thursday, 20 September 2012 04:15 (8 months ago) Permalink
Part of OTAN? What? I come from Estados Unidos? Can we just get the order of the initials right, here?
― El Tomboto, Thursday, 20 September 2012 04:19 (8 months ago) Permalink
And of course, the initials for Estados Unidos is EEUU.
― pplains, Thursday, 20 September 2012 04:34 (8 months ago) Permalink
Wanna lead a chant at the next soccer match, going Eh Eh! Oo Oo!
― pplains, Thursday, 20 September 2012 04:35 (8 months ago) Permalink