http://www.gorevidalnow.com/2012/07/in-memoriam/
― ♆ (gr8080), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 03:38 (9 months ago) Permalink
damn tough period for old lefties
― Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 03:41 (9 months ago) Permalink
RIP
― the late great, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 03:56 (9 months ago) Permalink
what a quote machine
― the late great, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 04:08 (9 months ago) Permalink
“[Professor] Frank recalled my idle remark some years ago: 'Never pass up the opportunity to have sex or appear on television.' Advice I would never give today in the age of AIDS and its television equivalent Fox News.”
and more
http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/5657.Gore_Vidal
― Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 04:18 (9 months ago) Permalink
ugh this year's death toll is grim
RIP great writer
― giallo pudding pops (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 04:25 (9 months ago) Permalink
Aw, man. btw the news alert on my phone told me, "Gore Vidal, Elegant Author, Dies at 86"
― horseshoe, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 04:54 (9 months ago) Permalink
Marge: So, did you call any of your friends?Lisa: Friend? (scoffs)These are my only friends.(holds up a book)Grownup nerds like Gore Vidal, and even he's kissed more boys than I ever will.Marge: Girls, Lisa. Boys kiss girls.
Lisa: Friend? (scoffs)These are my only friends.(holds up a book)Grownup nerds like Gore Vidal, and even he's kissed more boys than I ever will.
Marge: Girls, Lisa. Boys kiss girls.
― Jeremy Spencer Slid in Class Today (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 05:00 (9 months ago) Permalink
he said reagan was a masterpiece of the embalmers art
he said buckley was in hell with his bosses, applauding and fanning their prejudices as he did in life
― the late great, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 05:02 (9 months ago) Permalink
at italo calvino's funeral, he said he was most upset that they put his friend in a drawer instead of a grave
― the late great, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 05:03 (9 months ago) Permalink
ugh, terrible news. a great, great writer and raconteur from another age.
i used to think his offhand remarks in interviews were my favorite thing about him but i read 'lincoln' for the first time recently and the man could sling dialogue like whiskey. need to check out his early novels now.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 05:36 (9 months ago) Permalink
bummer
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 06:01 (9 months ago) Permalink
RIP man ... may you spit in Buckley's reptilian eye in the hereafter.
― KARLOR CAN FUCK ANYTHING! AND HE WILL AND HAS!!! (Eisbaer), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 06:29 (9 months ago) Permalink
maybe now i will get around to reading that copy of 'burr' i've had for two years
― moesha my reflection (donna rouge), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 08:01 (9 months ago) Permalink
"As one ages, litigation replaces sex"
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 11:01 (9 months ago) Permalink
dunno if anyone will read his novels but Lincoln is as marvelous and witty as anything in the American "canon," and he wrote at least two others at its level. His greatest book might be Palimpsest though
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 11:02 (9 months ago) Permalink
maybe now i will get around to reading that copy of The City and the Pillar i've had for a dozen years
― Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 11:08 (9 months ago) Permalink
Worth a read but feels unfinished.
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 11:12 (9 months ago) Permalink
as resposible as anyone for resurrecting Dawn Powell and publicizing Calvino in America.
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 11:23 (9 months ago) Permalink
My AP History teacher had us read six Gore Vidal novels. One of my classmates claimed Rush Limbaugh could beat Gore Vidal in a debate.
― tokyo rosemary, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 12:58 (9 months ago) Permalink
I think I've only read Palimpsest--quite good. Here's a clip that turned up in a documentary on Mailer I watched recently:
― clemenza, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 13:03 (9 months ago) Permalink
My AP History teacher had us read six Gore Vidal novels.
these novels were excellent gateway drugs. The amazing thing is that for the most part as history they check out.
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 13:23 (9 months ago) Permalink
I should probably read them again. It's been twenty years.
― tokyo rosemary, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 13:38 (9 months ago) Permalink
Did he write anything longish about same-sex marriage? All I can find is a Joy Behar interview where he says "it puts me to sleep," and I'm not posting that.
― Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 13:52 (9 months ago) Permalink
to him Marriage was all the same.
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 14:02 (9 months ago) Permalink
also exactly what did he mean by saying he and his longtime live-in "never slept together"?
― Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 14:06 (9 months ago) Permalink
Maybe they fucked and went to separate beds. Sounds about right for his generation.
― sive gallus et mulier (Michael White), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 14:11 (9 months ago) Permalink
according to his first memoir, he and Howard Austen picked each other up at the baths and slept together once – an experience so horrifying that the next morning they laughed it off. They wanted to laugh together the rest of their lives though, so they stayed together.
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 14:11 (9 months ago) Permalink
in the last memoir Austen, dying of emphysema in a hospital bed, asked Vidal to kiss him – only the second time it had happened, Vidal claims.
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 14:12 (9 months ago) Permalink
my ideal of a happy union actually
I remember watching him and Buckley spar on TV with my grandfather. I don't know that I ever saw him (my grandfather) more engaged.
― sive gallus et mulier (Michael White), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 14:12 (9 months ago) Permalink
man, that dick cavett clip is amazing
― you're all going to hello (Z S), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 14:13 (9 months ago) Permalink
hmmmmmm, no dice for me
xxp
― Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 14:14 (9 months ago) Permalink
Oddly enough, I'm going to visit his villa in October
― sive gallus et mulier (Michael White), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 14:14 (9 months ago) Permalink
I knew he said “I told you so” were the happiest words in the English language, but the three saddest: “Joyce Carol Oates.”
― Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 14:23 (9 months ago) Permalink
One of my classmates claimed Rush Limbaugh could beat Gore Vidal in a debate
the closing of the american mind. shouldn't be surprised but this is so appalling.
i liked lincoln, loved palimpsest and many of his essays, but at the risk of trolling on an obit thread i have to say his late-in-life flings w/mcveigh and 9/11 conspiracy theory really tarnish his legacy
― (REAL NAME) (m coleman), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 14:56 (9 months ago) Permalink
anyone whose trap keeps running in public for 65 years is bound to say some stupid shit.
He also apparently said around 2009 that Hillary Rodham would've been a great president, which sounds like dementia to me.
― Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 15:01 (9 months ago) Permalink
All-time greatest interviewee. RIP
― Eric H., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 15:01 (9 months ago) Permalink
Who's left from the great literary/critical feuds of the '50s/'60s/'70s? People really knew how to throw a great feud then.
― clemenza, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 15:02 (9 months ago) Permalink
Hitchens, who knew something about tarnishing his own legacy, documented the collapse:
http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2010/02/hitchens-201002
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 15:06 (9 months ago) Permalink
getting anecdotal about the old Orson Welles:
"Why,” he turned to the waiter with small cold eyes, “do you keep bringing me a menu when you know what I must eat. Grilled fish.” The voice boomed throughout the room. “And iced tea. How I hate grilled fish! But doctor’s orders. I’ve lost twenty pounds. No one ever believes this. But then no one ever believes I hardly eat anything.” He was close to four hundred pounds at the time of our last lunch in 1982. He wore bifurcated tents to which, rather idly, lapels, pocket flaps, buttons were attached in order to suggest a conventional suit. He hated the fat jokes that he was obliged to listen to—on television at least—with a merry smile and an insouciant retort or two, carefully honed in advance. When I asked him why he didn’t have the operation that vacuums the fat out of the body, he was gleeful. “Because I have seen the results of liposuction when the operation goes wrong. It happened to a woman I know. First, they insert the catheter in the abdomen, subcutaneously.” Orson was up on every medical procedure. “The suction begins and the fat—it looks like yellow chicken fat. You must try the chicken here. But then the fat—hers not the chicken’s—came out unevenly. And so where once had been a Rubensesque torso, there was now something all hideously rippled and valleyed and canyoned like the moon.” He chuckled and, as always, the blood rose in his face, slowly, from lower lip to forehead until the eyes vanished in a scarlet cloud, and I wondered, as always, what I’d do were he to drop dead of stroke.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/1989/jun/01/remembering-orson-welles/
― Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 15:24 (9 months ago) Permalink
I remember the yuks over the Rudy Vallee memoir ("Conrad").
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 15:28 (9 months ago) Permalink
Can anybody explain the "saddest three words in the English language are 'Joyce Carol Oates'" line? I can't find a source on it
― Ówen P., Wednesday, 1 August 2012 15:31 (9 months ago) Permalink
It was in the AP obit (which is on Salon), but I don't know anything more.
That Welles piece is quite sympathetic and touching, really, and this is nifty:
Writers who teach tend to prefer literary theory to literature and tenure to all else. Writers who do not teach prefer the contemplation of Careers to art of any kind. On the other hand, those actors who do read are often most learned, even passionate, when it comes to literature. I think that this unusual taste comes from a thorough grounding in Shakespeare combined with all that time waiting around on movie sets.
― Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 15:37 (9 months ago) Permalink
A filmmaker who loves to read is indeed a rare thing, which is why I often reread bits of Welles' Bogdanovich interviews for his remarks on Kafka, Fitzgerald, Wilder, et al.
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 15:42 (9 months ago) Permalink
In 2000, that essay compendium with the Jasper Johns flag on the cover was a serious fucking game changer for me. So far, I've only read Burr of the historical series, but I loved it. Lincoln has been next in line for a few years.
Most priceless for me were the interviews caught here and there on the radio. The earth scorching way he pronounced 'hagiographer'.
― Lewis Apparition (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 16:24 (9 months ago) Permalink
Burr is hilariously good
― giallo pudding pops (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 16:26 (9 months ago) Permalink
It needs to be repeated: the historical novels aren't a drag; they're funny as shit.
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 16:27 (9 months ago) Permalink
― DX Dx DX (dan m), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 16:33 (9 months ago) Permalink
Sully's strange obit.
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 1 August 2012 17:34 (9 months ago) Permalink
a few choice excerpts to promote an interview anthology... On the immediate post-WW2 period:
So here we were, right on the edge of a golden age, all prepared to go, to make civilization, something the United States has never done. We were all dressed up with nowhere to go. Then in 1950, Harry Truman was looking forward to the Cold War, with a new enemy: Communism. He gets us into a disastrous war with Korea, which we promptly lose. And we have been at war ever since, and it has not done our character much good, and it hasn’t been good for business either, except for Wall Street. That’s what I say to the golden age. It was there, in ovum, but you have to sit on the egg, not step on it.
http://www.salon.com/2012/10/06/gore_vidal_told_you_so/
― cancer, kizz my hairy irish azz (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 9 October 2012 19:51 (7 months ago) Permalink
gore OTM on that one, obv.
can't wait for that book!
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 9 October 2012 20:01 (7 months ago) Permalink
He did write – repeatedly – that lles années d'après-guerre up to 1950 were the golden age.
― the ones that I'm near most: fellow outcasts and ilxors (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 9 October 2012 20:07 (7 months ago) Permalink
not surprising that it was his age 20-25, but also the last time the US war machine was (somewhat) idling.
― cancer, kizz my hairy irish azz (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 9 October 2012 20:19 (7 months ago) Permalink
what war were we fighting between '92 and '00 I forget
― stop swearing and start windmilling (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 9 October 2012 20:20 (7 months ago) Permalink
1992 – Sierra Leone. Operation Silver Anvil: Following the April 29 coup that overthrew President Joseph Saidu Momoh, a United States European Command (USEUCOM) Joint Special Operations Task Force evacuated 438 people (including 42 third-country nationals) on May 3 .Two Air Mobility Command (AMC) C-141s flew 136 people from Freetown, Sierra Leone, to the Rhein-Main Air Base in Germany and nine C-130 sorties carried another 302 people to Dakar, Senegal.[RL30172]
1992–1996 – Bosnia and Herzegovina: Operation Provide Promise was a humanitarian relief operation in Bosnia and Herzegovina during the Yugoslav Wars, from July 2, 1992, to January 9, 1996, which made it the longest running humanitarian airlift in history.[6]
1992 – Kuwait: On August 3, 1992, the United States began a series of military exercises in Kuwait, following Iraqi refusal to recognize a new border drawn up by the United Nations and refusal to cooperate with UN inspection teams.[RL30172]
1992–2003 – Iraq. Iraqi no-fly zones: The U.S., United Kingdom, and it's Gulf War allies declared and enforced "no-fly zones" over the majority of sovereign Iraqi airspace, prohibiting Iraqi flights in zones in southern Iraq and northern Iraq, and conducting aerial reconnaissance and bombings. Oftentimes, Iraqi forces continued throughout a decade by firing on U.S. and British aircraft patrolling no-fly zones.(See also Operation Northern Watch, Operation Southern Watch) [RL30172]
1992–1995 – Somalia. Operation Restore Hope. Somali Civil War: On December 10, 1992, President Bush reported that he had deployed U.S. armed forces to Somalia in response to a humanitarian crisis and a UN Security Council Resolution in support for UNITAF. The operation came to an end on May 4, 1993. U.S. forces continued to participate in the successor United Nations Operation in Somalia (UNOSOM II).(See also Battle of Mogadishu)[RL30172]
1993-1995 - Bosnia. Operation Deny Flight: On April 12, 1993, in response to a United Nations Security Council passage of Resolution 816, U.S. and NATO enforced the no-fly zone over the Bosnian airspace, prohibited all unauthorized flights and allowed to "take all necessary measures to ensure compliance with [the no-fly zone restrictions]."
1993 – Macedonia: On July 9, 1993, President Clinton reported the deployment of 350 U.S. soldiers to the Republic of Macedonia to participate in the UN Protection Force to help maintain stability in the area of former Yugoslavia.[RL30172]
1994: Bosnia. Banja Luka incident: NATO become involved in the first combat situation when NATO U.S. Air Force F-16 jets shot down four of the six Bosnian Serb J-21 Jastreb single-seat light attack jets for violating UN mandated no-fly zone.
1994–1995 – Haiti. Operation Uphold Democracy: U.S. ships had begun embargo against Haiti. Up to 20,000 U.S. military troops were later deployed to Haiti to restore democratically-elected Haiti President Jean-Bertrand Aristide from a military regime which came into power in 1991 after a major coup.[RL30172]
1994 – Macedonia: On April 19, 1994, President Clinton reported that the U.S. contingent in Macedonia had been increased by a reinforced company of 200 personnel.[RL30172]
1995 – Bosnia. Operation Deliberate Force: In August 30, 1995, U.S. and NATO aircraft began a major bombing campaign of Bosnian Serb Army in response to a Bosnian Serb mortar attack on a Sarajevo market that killed 37 people in August 28, 1995. This operation lasted until September 20, 1995. The air campaign along with a combined allied ground force of Muslim and Croatian Army against Serb positions led to a Dayton agreement in December 1995 with the signing of warring factions of the war. As part of Operation Joint Endeavor, U.S. and NATO dispatched the Implementation Force (IFOR) peacekeepers to Bosnia to uphold the Dayton agreement.[RL30172]
1996 – Liberia. Operation Assured Response: On April 11, 1996, President Clinton reported that on April 9, 1996 due to the "deterioration of the security situation and the resulting threat to American citizens" in Liberia he had ordered U.S. military forces to evacuate from that country "private U.S. citizens and certain third-country nationals who had taken refuge in the U.S. Embassy compound...."[RL30172]
1996 – Central African Republic. Operation Quick Response: On May 23, 1996, President Clinton reported the deployment of U.S. military personnel to Bangui, Central African Republic, to conduct the evacuation from that country of "private U.S. citizens and certain U.S. government employees", and to provide "enhanced security for the American Embassy in Bangui."[RL30172] United States Marine Corps elements of Joint Task Force Assured Response, responding in nearby Liberia, provided security to the embassy and evacuated 448 people, including between 190 and 208 Americans. The last Marines left Bangui on June 22.
1996 - Bosnia. Operation Joint Guard: In December 21, 1996, U.S. and NATO established the SFOR peacekeepers to replace the IFOR in enforcing the peace under the Dayton agreement.
1997 – Albania. Operation Silver Wake: On March 13, 1997, U.S. military forces were used to evacuate certain U.S. government employees and private U.S. citizens from Tirana, Albania.[RL30172]
1997 – Congo and Gabon: On March 27, 1997, President Clinton reported on March 25, 1997, a standby evacuation force of U.S. military personnel had been deployed to Congo and Gabon to provide enhanced security and to be available for any necessary evacuation operation.[RL30172]
1997 – Sierra Leone: On May 29 and May 30, 1997, U.S. military personnel were deployed to Freetown, Sierra Leone, to prepare for and undertake the evacuation of certain U.S. government employees and private U.S. citizens.[RL30172]
1997 – Cambodia: On July 11, 1997, In an effort to ensure the security of American citizens in Cambodia during a period of domestic conflict there, a Task Force of about 550 U.S. military personnel were deployed at Utapao Air Base in Thailand for possible evacuations. [RL30172]
1998 – Iraq. Operation Desert Fox: U.S. and British forces conduct a major four-day bombing campaign from December 16–19, 1998 on Iraqi targets.[RL30172]
1998 – Guinea-Bissau. Operation Shepherd Venture: On June 10, 1998, in response to an army mutiny in Guinea-Bissau endangering the U.S. Embassy, President Clinton deployed a standby evacuation force of U.S. military personnel to Dakar, Senegal, to evacuate from the city of Bissau.[RL30172]
1998–1999 – Kenya and Tanzania: U.S. military personnel were deployed to Nairobi, Kenya, to coordinate the medical and disaster assistance related to the bombing of the U.S. Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania.[RL30172]
1998 – Afghanistan and Sudan. Operation Infinite Reach: On August 20, President Clinton ordered a cruise missile attack against two suspected terrorist training camps in Afghanistan and a suspected chemical factory in Sudan.[RL30172]
1998 – Liberia: On September 27, 1998, America deployed a stand-by response and evacuation force of 30 U.S. military personnel to increase the security force at the U.S. Embassy in Monrovia. [1] [RL30172]
1999–2001 - East Timor: Limited number of U.S. military forces deployed with the United Nations-mandated International Force for East Timor restore peace to East Timor.[RL30172]
1999 – Serbia. Operation Allied Force: U.S. and NATO aircraft began a major bombing of Serbia and Serb positions in Kosovo in March 24, 1999, during the Kosovo War due to the refusal by Serbian President Slobodan Milosevic to end repression against ethnic Albanians in Kosovo. This operation ended in June 10, 1999, when Milosevic agreed to pull out his troops out of Kosovo. In response to the situation in Kosovo, NATO dispatched the KFOR peacekeepers to secure the peace under UNSC Resolution 1244.[RL30172]
2000 – Sierra Leone. On May 12, 2000 a US Navy patrol craft deployed to Sierra Leone to support evacuation operations from that country if needed.[RL30172]
2000 - Nigeria. Special Forces troops are sent to Nigeria to lead a training mission in the county.[7]
2000 – Yemen. On October 12, 2000, after the USS Cole attack in the port of Aden, Yemen, military personnel were deployed to Aden.[RL30172]
2000 – East Timor. On February 25, 2000, a small number of U.S. military personnel were deployed to support the United Nations Transitional Administration in East Timor (UNTAET).
― omar little, Tuesday, 9 October 2012 20:22 (7 months ago) Permalink
the Truman Doctrine debuted in '47.
― the ones that I'm near most: fellow outcasts and ilxors (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 9 October 2012 20:22 (7 months ago) Permalink
kinda pwned there, Shakes, by all the Clintonian brushfires
― cancer, kizz my hairy irish azz (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 9 October 2012 20:25 (7 months ago) Permalink
I think you'd at least remember Bosnia, Mme Albright itching to use "this wonderful military" or Black Hawk Down
― cancer, kizz my hairy irish azz (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 9 October 2012 20:27 (7 months ago) Permalink
the 90s were pretty crucial as a pretext to our current misadventures and, don't forget, 9/11. or have you already forgotten.
― omar little, Tuesday, 9 October 2012 20:28 (7 months ago) Permalink
"pretext" isn't correct there, but anyway
― omar little, Tuesday, 9 October 2012 20:29 (7 months ago) Permalink
yeah those weren't wars sorry guys
― stop swearing and start windmilling (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 9 October 2012 20:30 (7 months ago) Permalink
he did. he forgot. crank up that darryl worley
― turds (Hungry4Ass), Tuesday, 9 October 2012 20:31 (7 months ago) Permalink
at least, not any moreso than whatever hijinks we were up to between the end of WWII and the beginning of the Korean War
xp
― stop swearing and start windmilling (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 9 October 2012 20:31 (7 months ago) Permalink
presaging of events is what i meant. but really all of that was collectively a vast collection of military actions that may as well have been a "real" war, for how it led to what we're up to now and for how it affected the world's view of us.
― omar little, Tuesday, 9 October 2012 20:32 (7 months ago) Permalink
like all of us Gore Vidal isn't immune to mythologizing his past
― the ones that I'm near most: fellow outcasts and ilxors (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 9 October 2012 20:33 (7 months ago) Permalink
'we weren't at WAR, we just bombed a bunch of other countries. how could you possibly confuse the two?'
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 9 October 2012 20:35 (7 months ago) Permalink
i think sometimes what we don't view as war, what we view as a minor action and something we can just go and forget, is viewed by our adversary as war. which is maybe more important to take into consideration than whether or not we viewed it as such.
― omar little, Tuesday, 9 October 2012 20:37 (7 months ago) Permalink
the serbia thing was pretty crucial in re-legitimizing the idea of 'humanitarian intervention,' and hence played a fairly important role in the leadup to the iraq war.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 9 October 2012 20:41 (7 months ago) Permalink
people not thinking that list constitutes "war" (it's an unnatural thought for 90s-kid me, too!) is the only piece of evidence future anthropologists will need to come to a working understanding of post-ww2 american life
― a hauntingly unemployed american (difficult listening hour), Tuesday, 9 October 2012 20:42 (7 months ago) Permalink
otm. that older definition of war as event has changed its utility has diminished but it's still war and there's more of it than ever. xxp
― We demand justice: who murdered Chanel? (Matt P), Tuesday, 9 October 2012 20:42 (7 months ago) Permalink
as its utility
― We demand justice: who murdered Chanel? (Matt P), Tuesday, 9 October 2012 20:43 (7 months ago) Permalink
you guys are nuts
― stop swearing and start windmilling (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 9 October 2012 20:44 (7 months ago) Permalink
the military evacuating some diplomats from Albania /= firebombing of Dresden
let's keep some perspective here
― stop swearing and start windmilling (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 9 October 2012 20:45 (7 months ago) Permalink
it would be excessive to say that everything there counts as 'war' but come on, a 'four-day bombing campaign'?
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 9 October 2012 20:47 (7 months ago) Permalink
barely got their hair mussed, those pissant little countries!
SMC finally comes out as a neolib/neocon whatever warpig-enabler label you wanna use
― cancer, kizz my hairy irish azz (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 9 October 2012 20:47 (7 months ago) Permalink
didn't Billy Blythe ejaculate some bombs immediately after his dress-stain indictment?
― cancer, kizz my hairy irish azz (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 9 October 2012 20:49 (7 months ago) Permalink
I don't deny that you can clearly see the US military "war machine" (as Morbz puts it) in action behind all of those actions when you take them all together, primarily because the scope and scale that they encompass (ie, globe-spanning) requires a functioning military industry. The only distinction I was trying to make was that the US has not been on the unbroken, unending mission of imperialist genocide that Morbz' rhetoric implies. There are gaps, there are peaks and valleys, and they weren't all encapsulated within Gore Vidal's halcyon days of youth.
― stop swearing and start windmilling (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 9 October 2012 20:51 (7 months ago) Permalink
the least violent episode on that list is indeed /= one of the most violent from the largest war in human history
― a hauntingly unemployed american (difficult listening hour), Tuesday, 9 October 2012 20:51 (7 months ago) Permalink
yeah and I thought this was disgusting in its transparent cynicism, I said so at the time, I am no fan of Clinton etc
― stop swearing and start windmilling (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 9 October 2012 20:52 (7 months ago) Permalink
ftr I think this was even less violent dlh:
1998 – Liberia: On September 27, 1998, America deployed a stand-by response and evacuation force of 30 U.S. military personnel to increase the security force at the U.S. Embassy in Monrovia.
yeah, Dresden, I didn't realize every NBA star hadda be Michael Jordan.
Sotosyn, what will be your book mythologizing your past be like?
― cancer, kizz my hairy irish azz (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 9 October 2012 20:52 (7 months ago) Permalink
thx for playing tho yes lets all keep encouraging Morbsian hysteria
― stop swearing and start windmilling (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 9 October 2012 20:53 (7 months ago) Permalink
Billy also took the Concorde down to Little Rock to pump electricity into a retarded man.
― the ones that I'm near most: fellow outcasts and ilxors (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 9 October 2012 20:54 (7 months ago) Permalink
reads like a line from some 70s AM radio country hit
― stop swearing and start windmilling (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 9 October 2012 20:55 (7 months ago) Permalink
that was the night the lights went out in Arkansas
― stop swearing and start windmilling (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 9 October 2012 20:56 (7 months ago) Permalink
My memoir will be told from multiple points of view, one of which will be an unreliable female narrator.
― the ones that I'm near most: fellow outcasts and ilxors (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 9 October 2012 20:56 (7 months ago) Permalink
do we have a chart of US military spending btwn GHW Bush and Clinton? I'm pretty sure it didn't go down by any standard.
― cancer, kizz my hairy irish azz (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 9 October 2012 20:57 (7 months ago) Permalink
has it ever?
― stop swearing and start windmilling (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 9 October 2012 20:58 (7 months ago) Permalink
hmm this is not what I was expecting tbh
― stop swearing and start windmilling (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 9 October 2012 21:00 (7 months ago) Permalink
clear downward trend during Clinton's terms there btw
partially because the economy/GNP was booming during Clinton's terms
― Technology of the Big Muff (DJP), Tuesday, 9 October 2012 21:01 (7 months ago) Permalink
I forgot that the death of the USSR prob played its legendary "peace dividend" role there.
Also the feds have only been paying a lot for education/ infrastructure/ healthcare etc for the last 80 years, right? So arms would've been a bigger slice of a smaller pie.
― cancer, kizz my hairy irish azz (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 9 October 2012 21:04 (7 months ago) Permalink
(before the New Deal, that is)
― cancer, kizz my hairy irish azz (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 9 October 2012 21:05 (7 months ago) Permalink
and the Great Society, moreso? bcz it appears to dip under 50% for the last time just as Vietnam is revving up.
― cancer, kizz my hairy irish azz (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 9 October 2012 21:07 (7 months ago) Permalink
not gonna be mean to shakey about that chart being from the heritage foundation since i'm sure the numbers are fine but it's still funny
defense spending has gone down plenty of times, and they're pretty much the times you'd expect (cf the sharp rise between 1965 and 1970, and then the drop) but this graph that takes it as a straight number and not as a percentage of the budget p much lines up w vidal's narrative, right? plummets (like you'd expect) between 1945 and 1950 and gradually rises (on average) from then on. anyway i am not calling anyone a neocon i am just saying that yes indeed there was a significant change in the u.s. govt's attitude towards military spending and global military action during the cold war and yes indeed we all grew up in the country that change made, and that's why the 90s seem like peacetime to us.
― a hauntingly unemployed american (difficult listening hour), Tuesday, 9 October 2012 21:21 (7 months ago) Permalink
It's so large a percentage of the budget in the nineteenth century because the federal government had literally no other responsibilities except making war.
― the ones that I'm near most: fellow outcasts and ilxors (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 9 October 2012 21:24 (7 months ago) Permalink
which is why heritage has chosen to graph it as they have, and then filenamed it myth-of-isolationism.jpg
― a hauntingly unemployed american (difficult listening hour), Tuesday, 9 October 2012 21:30 (7 months ago) Permalink
okay much lolz at filename
― stop swearing and start windmilling (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 9 October 2012 21:57 (7 months ago) Permalink
and yeah I didn't really care about the 19th century half of the graph, but it was attached to the 20th century half