the most important election of your lifetime: 2012 american general election thread

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part of the difference is that jesse helms was an asshole, but not an idiot. his successors are far more likely to be both

mookieproof, Friday, 20 April 2012 00:51 (1 year ago) Permalink

what is his top issue (since it evidently is not abortion)?

Taxes and federal encroachment, i.e. taxes.

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 20 April 2012 00:52 (1 year ago) Permalink

He and Mom recognize that their support of access to abortion means they're persona non grata in the GOP. Mom, like Betty Ford and Barbara Bush, will say, "I'm conservative; the government has no right to tell me what to do with my body."

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 20 April 2012 00:53 (1 year ago) Permalink

do you have siblings? what do they think?

(sorry, not trying specifically to grill you, just curious)

mookieproof, Friday, 20 April 2012 00:54 (1 year ago) Permalink

and if they vote gop regardless, how persona non grata can they be?

mookieproof, Friday, 20 April 2012 00:56 (1 year ago) Permalink

My younger and married sister doesn't vote; her husband's a conservative who's curious and empathetic about his brother in law's gay life.

and if they vote gop regardless, how persona non grata can they be?

One doesn't discuss abortion. Cubans are closer to neocons: bedroom matters don't interest them.

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 20 April 2012 00:59 (1 year ago) Permalink

hmm how curious

iatee, Friday, 20 April 2012 01:00 (1 year ago) Permalink

there wasn't anywhere near as much foaming "they're destroying america!!!" panic w clinton than there has been with obama.

Oh lord! You just weren't hanging out in the correct places, then. The foaming at the mouth over Clinton was EPIC among the right wing conservatives. Because of my situation and exposure at the time, I saw far more of the Clinton hysteria than I've seen with Obama. Far more.

Aimless, Friday, 20 April 2012 03:12 (1 year ago) Permalink

what were the criticisms? like, why were good conservatives supposed to hate clinton? i remember vince foster and whitewater, of course, but i never got the impression that many people seriously believed that he'd had anyone killed, or that whitewater was any worse than minor-league venality. when the lewinsky business came up, a lot of conservatives got all extra-frothy about clinton's moral turpitude, but the outrage seemed at once personal ("he disgusts me and doesn't deserve to be president") and strategic ("we can use this to take him down").

with obama, it seems as though they consider him a literal enemy of the state, like he's actively and intentionally trying to destroy both america and "the christian religion upon which it was founded". he's not just a bad, undeserving president, he's a hitler-level monster who must be stopped before he institutes godless communist tyranny. or so it seems to me.

yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Friday, 20 April 2012 04:55 (1 year ago) Permalink

nah man, people absolutely believed that shit. They believed the swift boating of Kerry too.

Matt Armstrong, Friday, 20 April 2012 05:10 (1 year ago) Permalink

you guys are reminding me of Alvy Singer's parents arguing whether the Atlantic or Pacific is the greater ocean.

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Friday, 20 April 2012 05:11 (1 year ago) Permalink

seems like the Pacific in a walk I wld think

raw feel vegan (silby), Friday, 20 April 2012 05:14 (1 year ago) Permalink

more volcanoes for one thing

raw feel vegan (silby), Friday, 20 April 2012 05:14 (1 year ago) Permalink

sicker waves too

stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Friday, 20 April 2012 05:15 (1 year ago) Permalink

Atlantic has a better class of lobsters

yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Friday, 20 April 2012 05:20 (1 year ago) Permalink

Are we giving the Atlantic credit for the Mediterranean?

Matt Armstrong, Friday, 20 April 2012 05:47 (1 year ago) Permalink

oh why not

yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Friday, 20 April 2012 05:49 (1 year ago) Permalink

If you were over the age of, say, fifteen the Clinton criticism was drip drip drip nonstop for eight years. If there was a break it happened in late '99 and 2000 -- when the right wing said fuck it and concentrated on electing Bush -- so maybe that's what contenderizer means.

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 20 April 2012 10:58 (1 year ago) Permalink

http://blogs.todayonline.com/forartssake/2012/04/19/we-rat-on-tsai-ming-liang-and-his-muses/#more-5057

nice interview, about a new film, living next door to Lee Kang-sheng & his theatre work, in case anyone's been wondering what he's been upto. he had another film, The Diary of a Young Boy in development for a while that I think's disappeared.

I saw What Time Is It There? again recently. so wonderful.

blossom smulch (schlump), Friday, 20 April 2012 11:11 (1 year ago) Permalink

If there was a break it happened in late '99 and 2000 -- when the right wing said fuck it and concentrated on electing Bush -- so maybe that's what contenderizer means.

i was talking more about tone than amount or consistency of criticism, but i think we understand each other pretty well at this point, and just happen to disagree

yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Friday, 20 April 2012 17:42 (1 year ago) Permalink

They bayed at some of his last-minute pardons, though, and rightfully so.

L'ennui, cette maladie de tous les (Michael White), Friday, 20 April 2012 18:23 (1 year ago) Permalink

yep

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 20 April 2012 18:34 (1 year ago) Permalink

Fred Clark's written about the hyperbolic rightwing Satanazi paranoia on the rise. If you're personally lacking something in your life and need a Great Evil to thrash against and thus prove your persecuted righteousness to your self, you amp up the forces you imagine are aligned against you.

That way, you don't actually have to _do_ anything; you don't have to go out into the world and try to help people or expend any effort at all. Because your enemies are the Forces of Darkness, you're a hero just by taking a moral stand and posting on the internet which is your action against them. You can prove to yourself that you're a good person in the most facile, slack-assed way possible.

Much like so much American rightwing bullshit in the last twenty years, this shit comes from internal psychodrama, not from political belief. Side effect is that mere rational argument and basic facts ain't going to change these people's minds. You can't reason a fellow out of a position Reason never led him into.

also, from here:
Rick Santorum and the Anti Kitten-Burning Coalition


I am, unambiguously and without qualification, opposed to burning kittens. I am also confident that you are opposed to this too. And that latter point is why I cannot join the Anti Kitten-Burning Coalition.

The AKBC, again, is on the correct side of this issue. Its members, quite rightly, are vehemently opposed to something to which they ought to be vehemently opposed. But that isn’t what motivates them. What drives them, their central organizing principle, is the notion that they represent a beleaguered and controversial minority view. They imagine that their stance against burning kittens — sweet, adorable, innocent kittens — is something that separates and distinguishes them from most other people. They imagine that their opposition to burning kittens is a brave and exceptional stance that elevates them above most other people.

In other words, the central concern of the Anti Kitten-Burning Coalition is not a defense of kittens, but an accusation against most other people. They are not driven by their opposition to kitten-burning, but by their opposition to a make-believe faction of other people whom they imagine favor kitten-burning. That this vast bloc of pro kitten-burning people cannot be found and does not exist does nothing to dampen their enthusiastic campaign against these supposed monstrously cruel others. It is a delusion, but the AKBC enjoys this delusion.

This delusion gives their lives meaning and purpose. It makes their lives more exciting. And it enables them to bask in the idea that they are good and righteous people — or at least the possibility that they are better than some imagined faction of monstrously cruel other people.

This delusion has become a central defining trait of American politics. Imaginary monsters — other people who are imagined to favor kitten-burning or other monstrous cruelties — are a greater focus of American politics than jobs, taxes, highways and bridges, or environmental protection. Millions of votes are mobilized and cast based on the imaginary fear of an imaginary faction of kitten-burning monsters.

That link is great b/c he goes into four reasons why people(e.g. Santorum & his voters) deliberately choose to believe such horrible things about the real world:


1. It’s exciting to believe in imaginary monsters.

2. A fiendish foil for self-righteousness.

3. If the monsters don’t exist, the theory isn’t true.

4. Imaginary monsters give our fears a face.

And he's written a lot about this kinda thing

It's all great stuff and I heavily recommend checking it out, if only to lower the compulsion I sometimes feel to bulk-quote it all here as a response to folks wondering why american idiots loudly choose their idiotic stances.

Choad of Choad Hall (kingfish), Friday, 20 April 2012 18:37 (1 year ago) Permalink

It just now occurred to me who Mitt reminds me of on the surface.

Son of a governor became a governor himself. has run for president twice.

pplains, Friday, 20 April 2012 19:48 (1 year ago) Permalink

It's the silver sideburns mostly.

pplains, Friday, 20 April 2012 19:48 (1 year ago) Permalink

Governor Mittbeam

heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 20 April 2012 19:51 (1 year ago) Permalink

Romney-Lady Gaga romance imminent.

clemenza, Friday, 20 April 2012 20:19 (1 year ago) Permalink

I found out about “Cookiegate” this morning. I was about eight hours late on the dog stuff and, when I asked someone who tweeted about it to explain what they were talking about, they literally didn’t believe that I could possibly be ignorant of such a consequential topic. After I learned the story, I felt a little worse about myself for being in any way involved in the tornado of idiocy that is American politics.

Mad God 40/40 (Z S), Saturday, 21 April 2012 19:57 (1 year ago) Permalink

never realized plato's cave had a roadway...learn something every day

Doctor Casino, Sunday, 22 April 2012 05:52 (1 year ago) Permalink

plato's increasingly fucke-up cave

yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Sunday, 22 April 2012 07:41 (1 year ago) Permalink

Was faffing about on Kickstarter tonight and found this:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1339254269/ron-paul-road-to-revolution

what the living fuck: some dude is making an NES-style platformer Ron Paul game, and got $8K+ from Kickstarter to make it.

Choad of Choad Hall (kingfish), Sunday, 22 April 2012 08:54 (1 year ago) Permalink

It looks like it might be an interesting game, but if there is a revolution, then anyone who says "*WINK*" then follows that up with an actual wink will be first against the wall.

Andrew Farrell, Sunday, 22 April 2012 09:31 (1 year ago) Permalink

Accurate assessment, I think:

http://politics.salon.com/2012/04/20/mitt%E2%80%99s_one_undeniable_advantage/singleton/

clemenza, Sunday, 22 April 2012 17:20 (1 year ago) Permalink

yeah, sadly

yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Monday, 23 April 2012 06:24 (1 year ago) Permalink

Isn't there thousands of people that Obama can wheel out to say "I'd have a job now, if it wasn't for Mitt Romney"? Or have they all been used up by the GOP candidates' brief foray into socialism?

Andrew Farrell, Monday, 23 April 2012 07:35 (1 year ago) Permalink

I'm sure there are plenty of such people, but somebody in a (paid) TV ad saying "I'd have a job now, if it wasn't for Mitt Romney" won't likely do much to offset the dissatisfaction of people feeling the pinch who see Obama as having failed them.

yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Monday, 23 April 2012 07:59 (1 year ago) Permalink

Sure, but you're not voting for a time machine, you're voting for one guy vs another.

Andrew Farrell, Monday, 23 April 2012 08:04 (1 year ago) Permalink


I need new, hip khakis (DJP), Monday, 23 April 2012 20:20 (1 year ago) Permalink

expect to see a lot, lot, lot more of this

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2012/04/dog_soldiers_ri.php

goole, Monday, 23 April 2012 20:25 (1 year ago) Permalink

what the

I need new, hip khakis (DJP), Monday, 23 April 2012 20:29 (1 year ago) Permalink

Jesus, why are Republicans _so bad_ at jokes?

Andrew Farrell, Monday, 23 April 2012 20:32 (1 year ago) Permalink

Obama's mother "was not only a Communist fellow-traveler," he wrote, "but the sort of 1960s woman who (as we used to say) 'put her body on the line,' first by marrying two Third World men, and then by spending her career in the Third World."

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 23 April 2012 20:37 (1 year ago) Permalink

"as we used to say"

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 23 April 2012 20:37 (1 year ago) Permalink

so apparently if you say J1m Tr34ch3r's name three times he'll appear (or so i've learnt from the Village Voice comments thread). anyone feel like summoning him?

Mordy, Monday, 23 April 2012 20:47 (1 year ago) Permalink

ah, spengler.

goole, Monday, 23 April 2012 20:50 (1 year ago) Permalink

got to love the reasoning that goes from obama praising the social arrangements of poor indonesia as being at least more stable than those of poor chicago, to spengler using it as proof of preferring traditional pre-capitalism to "creative destruction." like, are you really going to argue that a '70s american ghetto is the best billboard for capital?

goole, Monday, 23 April 2012 20:52 (1 year ago) Permalink

yes, Jim Treacher should come here. he seems a treat

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Monday, 23 April 2012 20:53 (1 year ago) Permalink

Jim Treacher

heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 23 April 2012 20:57 (1 year ago) Permalink

jim treacher wears a diaper

I accidentally sonned your dome (stevie), Monday, 23 April 2012 20:59 (1 year ago) Permalink


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