Let's talk about Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman, and how unbelievably fucked up this all is

Don't mean to be a jerk or anything but isn't Florida up "at the front of the pack for race-oppression" because black people actually live there, as opposed to Wyoming or New England

Black people actually live in most of the US.

dayo's link otm, of course

Actually, this is more accurate

Mass is 85% white and is the most "diverse" of New English states.
Wyoming I mentioned because it's the most gun-violence-per-capita state and it is 90% white.

Side question: is it completely nuts to wonder if the prosecution threw the case? Mark Geragos made that claim last night on CNN and Jeffrey Toobin (does he always smirk? he was unwatchable) basically said you're nuts. Still I wonder....

― Iago Galdston, Thursday, July 18, 2013 12:16 AM (37 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

apparently the prosecution's opening was so strong that the defense attorneys lost their minds and improvised a knock knock joke, so I doubt this.

Racism is everywhere, and boycotts need to be assessed on a case-by-case basis in terms of their consequences (intended and otherwise), but I agree with contenderizer's point that id'ing a definable target for people to channel their energies toward is a smart thing right now. Perhaps the target needn't be geographic, but even if it is, it can still be done in a way that explicitly recognizes that this shit's happening everywhere. Civil rights movement was focused on the south at first, but a few years later we see it up in places like Chicago, shedding light on discriminatory housing practices and so on.

Personally I'm trying to figure out What Is To Be Done, locally (Boston area) or otherwise. I work in an arena where I can do some things regarding the capillary (as Foucault might say) manifestations of racism, but I'd like to go beyond that.

Start using the tactics of the anti-choice crowd, and follow NRA execs and ALEC staffers around, bother their kids at school, put up posters in their neighborhoods saying they advocate murdering black teenagers, etc.

No place may be exempt from racism, and I personally do believe that. But in 2013, Zimmerman could not have gotten away with what he specifically got away with anywhere, just in some select places. Places like Florida, generally, with its confluence of nuts gun laws and (more overt) racsim. But would he have gotten away with it in Miami? Dunno.

CG otm, but this Boycott Florida thing is picking up steam and I worry that it's going to waste a lot of useful energy and momentum. Can't say I can think of anything better. How about "Boycott Captain Phillips"?

by the way, guys, you want a reference point? Here.

www.tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/cases/case_211

JIC keep on believing these things can only happen in Hickville USA

The florida boycott idea is stupid. The majority of the country either supports or doesn't give a shit about the verdict. Nobody's gonna cancel their trip to disneyworld because a 17 year old black kid was murdered

so cynical

I didn't say these things only happen in Hickville USA (which isn't that bad, if you know the right places to eat!). But the south just happens to be a crux of latent/real racism and lax gun laws. Racism is pervasive, but states like Florida make it a little easier to shoot someone, too.

The majority of the country either supported or didn't give a shit about the majority of bad shit that has proved to be worth fighting for.

fighting against, rather.

otm

basically seems like you can walk around Florida accosting people and when one inevitably resists you get to shoot them.

this kind of fits what I think of Florida tbh

― thuggish ruggish Brahms (DJP),

You can also go to Disney World and get a bluetini tbh

"One sip, George, and you'll forget this following Trayvon business"

http://i1.disneyfoodblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Blue-Glow-Tini.jpg

bluetini actually a sex act available only in florida

http://thegrio.com/2012/11/20/71-year-old-black-man-found-guilty-of-manslaughter-jury-rejects-stand-your-ground-claim/

Stop picking on Florida! Can we please get some Stand Your Ground related miscarriages of justice from some other states?

Let's just boycott ALEC

Here are some good 'n's: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/06/top-five-stand-your-ground-cases-zimmerman

I realize ALEC's role in all of this, but I'm curious - did these laws just pop up all over the country in response to a feeling that the existing laws didn't give people enough leeway to defend themselves when they were in danger?

I just remember arguing with some gun fanatics about a decade ago who were saying the existing laws were insufficient and that you could wind up in jail even if you shot an intruder in many states, all kinds of shit that of course wasn't true but believed wholeheartedly by em all.

Let's just boycott ALEC

― Fetchboy, Thursday, July 18, 2013 3:36 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

now this i'm behind

"black people actually live there, as opposed to Wyoming or New England"

Never cared for this kind of rhetoric because it erases the black people who do live in these places. It was only so many times I could be told I don't exist before it started to bug the hell out of me.

^

How about we have just one day where white people don't make grand pronouncements about black people? Can we do that?

TAKING ALL BETS

djp why you always wanna blame this shit on us man

How about we have just one day where white people don't make grand pronouncements about black people? Can we do that?

― "Post-Oven" (DJP), Wednesday, July 17, 2013 11:47 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lmbo

Jimi Hendrix was the best guitarist of all time

0 days without incident

nominate 1 subject, any subject, dare ilx to go a day without making a grand pronouncement on it. repeat until successful.

https://soundcloud.com/djassault/the-glue

I apologize if I offended anyone, that wasn't my intention. I see how bringing up demographics of New England would be offensive to Rev and DJP and I am really, deeply sorry. My intended point was that boycotting Florida only further marginalizes the non-whites who live there. Referencing demographics was in reaction to "welp there's certainly no gun violence in Vermont" anecdotal arguments I've read elsewhere and it had no bearing on this discussion and I am sorry

Wyoming I mentioned because it's the most gun-violence-per-capita state and it is 90% white.

― flamboyant goon tie included, Thursday, 18 July 2013 02:00 (9 hours ago)

this is not remotely true

the highest rate for gun ownership but the gun murder rate is fairly low in an american context

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state

Ah, I typed "violence" but of course meant "ownership". Again, this point might be of use in a discussion about "civilian gun ownership is an instrument of black oppression in America" but that is not really the discussion being had here and I retract it for its irrelevance.

Anyone who doesn't think the Zimmerman/Martin altercation and outcome couldn't have happened just about anywhere in the United States is severely deluded. That said I'm fine with boycotting Florida cuz really Florida basically sucks.

The question is could it have happened in a state without a Stand Your Ground law? I'd say no, since that's basically a no-catch get out of jail free card. You have to go above and beyond to mess up with Stand Your Ground, like the guy in Texas (?) who confronted his elementary school teacher neighbor, lured him out into the street, and then shot him:http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-06-27/news/sns-rt-us-usa-shooting-texasbre85r02k-20120627_1_texas-man-texas-firefighter-deadly-force

Looks like pre-2007, Texas law required SYG adherents to seek shelter or try to hide first, but of course that facet of the law was reversed. This guy even tells the police explicitly that he was "standing my ground;" there was reportedly a sense in this trial that he knew exactly what he was up to, legally.

Castle Doctrine would be a good name for a band.

So am I right, then, in assuming there are degrees of SYG laws, and that some are more lax than others?

Defense did not even invoke SYG at trial. And real issues with this case were incompetent/indifferent/possibly even racist police officers and a lack of evidence (possibly due to aforementioned) to refute Zimmerman's self-defense claims at trial. Former are not a unique problem in FLA and latter would not be unique to this case.

I'm fine with focusing ire on SYG and FLA but pretending that FLA has the only shitty cops/prosecutors and that defense lawyers basically anywhere wouldn't have been able to exploit loopholes in this case to get a client off (esp. when victim is a young black male and client is not) seems disingenuous.

I never said that. There is racism everywhere that gets people shot. There are always loopholes - that's the law - but SYG is the world's biggest loophole.

Didn't the juror who is talking say they took SYG into account, whether they were told to or not?

In an interview on CNN’s Anderson Cooper 360 Monday night, an anonymous juror said the panel that found George Zimmerman not guilty considered Florida’s Stand Your Ground law in its deliberations. Earlier reports suggested the notorious law that authorizes the unfettered use of deadly force in self-defense was not applied to the case, because Zimmerman’s lawyers opted not to request a Stand Your Ground hearing. But as ThinkProgress explained in a post earlier today, the jury instructions contained the law’s key provision and instructed jurors that self-defense meant Zimmerman was entitled to “stand his ground” with “no duty to retreat.”

I don't think that those two elements are critical here since in Zimmerman's telling at the point where he shoot Martin there was no opportunity to retreat.

shot