Worst ongoing plotline in the second season of Twin Peaks (SPOILERS)

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So, I loved this show (just plowed through it for the first time last year)...but it seems I'm not the only one who lost patience with it at some point. Looking at old threads, it seems to pretty much be the C.W. that the second season takes a total nosedive after the resolution of the Laura Palmer plot. Although it'd be interesting if anybody here is willing to come out and defend the whole kit and kaboodle, I'm more interested in the fact that, no matter how aimless and stupid some of this crap got, the ensemble cast and spinning-plates plotting meant that any given episode had at least something I still wanted to see more of. I think I got most of the major things here, obviously there's a lot of overlap but I think of these as more-or-less discrete chunks of the show.

So, vote for the worst, but feel free to discuss the best - what made you want to give up completely, and what kept you going on? I have a feeling the winner, if anyone votes, will be kind of a landslide, but often the polls are not what they seem...

Poll Results

OptionVotes
James leaves town and becomes mixed up in the torrid affair of Evelyn, Malcolm and Jeffrey 36
Nadine, suffering from amnesia, returns to high school with superhuman strength 11
Windom Earle, using Leo as his pawn, engages in kidnapping and murder in the woods 4
The upcoming Miss Twin Peaks contest is on everybody's minds 2
Cooper meets Norma's ex-nun sister Annie and falls in love 2
Andy and Dick compete for Lucy's approval as prospective fathers through babysitting, etc. 2
Cooper, with the help of Dennis/Denise, tries to clear his name after a frame-up 1
Harry tries to come to terms with the fallout of the Josie saga 1
Ben Horne becomes obsessed with the Civil War, and tries to turn over a new leaf 1
The Martels and Andrew try to unravel the secret of Eckhardt's puzzle box 0
Cooper and Truman work to solve the murder of Laura Palmer 0
The mayor's fiancee exerts a dumbfounding force on all men, for some reason 0
Donna becomes convinced that there is a connection between her family and Ben Horne 0
Josie is re-embroiled in the Martel saga as Andrew Packard and Thomas Eckhardt reappear 0
Bobby and Shelly's relationship is strained as they take care of a semi-comatose Leo 0
Ed and Norma attempt to pursue their long-forestalled love 0
Gordon discovers that he can hear Shelly's voice PERFECTLY 0
Audrey gets involved in staging a fundraiser for the Pine Weasel, and falls for Billy Zane 0
Cooper and Truman, with Pete's chess finesse, try to outwit Windom Earle 0
Donna befriends a shut-in named Harold Smith, with terrible consequences 0
Audrey gets mixed up in the business of One-Eyed Jack's and needs rescuing 0
Windom and Annie, with Cooper in pursuit, locate and enter the Black Lodge 0


Doctor Casino, Sunday, 4 March 2012 02:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

The *only* storyline I absolutely hated was the fucking tedious James story. All of the others were at least okay, and I must confess that I love the Civil War thing.

emil.y, Sunday, 4 March 2012 02:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

I guess I should have left an "other" option, huh? I always forget to do that.

The Civil War thing was wonderfully goofy up to a point, I sort of got sick of it but at least it offered some good visual comedy and most of the characters involved were definitely welcome onscreen. I say "most" because this plot also gave us Bobby preening around about being "Mr. Horne's assistant," etc., which was just lame and tiresome.

Doctor Casino, Sunday, 4 March 2012 02:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

James's out-of-town love murder frame-up/car mechanic plot would be my vote too. At least with most of the others you understand how they grew out of the show or at least out of the characters and the sense of "let's find something for these people to do with their onscreen chemistry." Maybe the thinking was that since James had no interesting qualities whatsoever, the only thing to do was to fling him outside of the entire milieu of the show for a while. The downside was that they actually filmed that stuff instead of just writing him out, which is where I thought it was going when he rode off into the sunset.

Doctor Casino, Sunday, 4 March 2012 03:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

I really love the second season, to be honest. It certainly had its down points, but I just remember seeing the first episode and being enraptured - it was weirder than the whole of the first season put together.

emil.y, Sunday, 4 March 2012 03:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

Also, I'm one of those people who actually like the ending. It might not have been planned, but I think it's kind of perfect.

emil.y, Sunday, 4 March 2012 03:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

Just had to scan the list for "James" and I knew which one I voted for. It's really a dumb plot with the dumbest character and introducing a couple other go-nowhere characters that you don't care about.

Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 4 March 2012 03:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

I could have done entirely without Dick as a character, so I picked the babysitting plotline, even though Andy was sort of funny in it.

simulation and similac (Hurting 2), Sunday, 4 March 2012 03:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

The *only* storyline I absolutely hated was the fucking tedious James story. All of the others were at least okay, and I must confess that I love the Civil War thing.

totally OTM came here to voice this exact sentiment

be scientific, douchebag (Shakey Mo Collier), Sunday, 4 March 2012 03:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

It's definitely walking away w the win.

Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 4 March 2012 03:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

I didn't like James even when he was relevant to the plot, but at least I understood why he was there, and his character worked and had a few great scenes. As soon as he entered this subplot, I wanted everyone to be murdered horribly.

xposts I have to say I liked Dick. Totally could have lived without him, and I felt sad that Andy & Lucy were put in doubt (it was nice to have some innocence in a terrible world), but I did think his character was pretty funny in itself.

emil.y, Sunday, 4 March 2012 03:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

Would have voted babysitting plot second - Dick annoyed the shit out of me every second he was onscreen, and the story overexposed Andy and Lucy to the point where my previous affection for them was considerably eroded.

I love the ending though, cannot imagine voting for the Black Lodge climax. How much was the final scene intended as "let's deliberately end this thing on a bleak, unsettling note" or "load up the cliffhangers in hopes of a write-in campaign to save the show"?

Doctor Casino, Sunday, 4 March 2012 03:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

aww I liked James. Mainly because he was nice to look at.

Voted for the Annie plotline.

sarahell, Sunday, 4 March 2012 03:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

The Lynch episodes in Season 2 are so fucking good. Some of the best moments in the series.

circa1916, Sunday, 4 March 2012 03:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

Dick is annoying and silly but having him in here is a good introduction to his destructive parody of the character on "On the Air".

Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 4 March 2012 03:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

Windom Earl for me. his plotline just didn't fit with the tone of the show, and suddenly casts Agent Cooper as the kind a guy that would have had an affair with his partner/friend's wife, which just struck me as very un-Dale

Chris S, Sunday, 4 March 2012 03:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

Maybe the thinking was that since James had no interesting qualities whatsoever, the only thing to do was to fling him outside of the entire milieu of the show for a while. The downside was that they actually filmed that stuff instead of just writing him out, which is where I thought it was going when he rode off into the sunset.

James was the worst. I don't understand why he wasn't just written out, unless the network thought he was some sort of draw for the teen audience? I remember the actor being hyped in a lot of teen magazines.

Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Sunday, 4 March 2012 03:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

Only value in seeing James in the second season is making jokes about him leaving town to audition for the Twilight films.

Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 4 March 2012 03:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

i actually think the whole window earle thing was much more deadly to the show than the james thing (which was terrible don't get me wrong). the james thing ended -- the windom earle thing sucked up the entire second half of the season and was almost completely worthless, the role of col. briggs excepted.

from a ratings point of view the worst decision they made (or was it a decision or just an error?) was to let a few episodes pass between the resolution of the laura palmer mystery and the ramping up of the window earle plotline. the slack was taken up with the lamebrained plot with the french-canadian drug kingpin whose name i forget, cooper's investigation by the FBI, etc. nobody gave a shit about that, and i think that's when the ratings definitively tanked and the show's fate was sealed.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Sunday, 4 March 2012 03:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

from not-lame-at-all to utterly fucking lame:

Windom and Annie, with Cooper in pursuit, locate and enter the Black Lodge
Cooper and Truman work to solve the murder of Laura Palmer
Gordon discovers that he can hear Shelly's voice PERFECTLY
Donna befriends a shut-in named Harold Smith, with terrible consequences
Bobby and Shelly's relationship is strained as they take care of a semi-comatose Leo
Donna becomes convinced that there is a connection between her family and Ben Horne
Audrey gets mixed up in the business of One-Eyed Jack's and needs rescuing
Cooper and Truman, with Pete's chess finesse, try to outwit Windom Earle
Josie is re-embroiled in the Martel saga as Andrew Packard and Thomas Eckhardt reappear
Ben Horne becomes obsessed with the Civil War, and tries to turn over a new leaf
The mayor's fiancee exerts a dumbfounding force on all men, for some reason
The Martels and Andrew try to unravel the secret of Eckhardt's puzzle box
Nadine, suffering from amnesia, returns to high school with superhuman strength
Andy and Dick compete for Lucy's approval as prospective fathers through babysitting, etc.
Cooper meets Norma's ex-nun sister Annie and falls in love
Audrey gets involved in staging a fundraiser for the Pine Weasel, and falls for Billy Zane
Ed and Norma attempt to pursue their long-forestalled love
The upcoming Miss Twin Peaks contest is on everybody's minds
Windom Earle, using Leo as his pawn, engages in kidnapping and murder in the woods
Harry tries to come to terms with the fallout of the Josie saga
James leaves town and becomes mixed up in the torrid affair of Evelyn, Malcolm and Jeffrey
Cooper, with the help of Dennis/Denise, tries to clear his name after a frame-up

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Sunday, 4 March 2012 03:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah but the meta intersection of X-Files and Twin Peaks is fairly enjoyable.

Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 4 March 2012 03:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

one thing I will say though is that I get scary flashbacks just reading the descriptions of a lot of these. That show was too fucking effective.

simulation and similac (Hurting 2), Sunday, 4 March 2012 03:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

from a ratings point of view the worst decision they made (or was it a decision or just an error?) was to let a few episodes pass between the resolution of the laura palmer mystery and the ramping up of the window earle plotline. the slack was taken up with the lamebrained plot with the french-canadian drug kingpin whose name i forget, cooper's investigation by the FBI, etc. nobody gave a shit about that, and i think that's when the ratings definitively tanked and the show's fate was sealed.

This is interesting! Yeah, I think you're on to something, even though I actually didn't mind the Jacques Renault stuff, given that it seemed to ride the momentum of things already introduced (One-Eyed Jack's, the seamy underbelly). Jacques was just weak, villain-wise. But certainly there was a weird interregnum there, as if the Laura story was meant to overlap the Windom material, but finished ahead of schedule.

Doctor Casino, Sunday, 4 March 2012 03:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

Well, I always heard it was the decision of the station/backers to reveal the Laura thing, and actually it was originally planned to continue for most of the series. Anyone back me up on this with fact rather than rumour?

emil.y, Sunday, 4 March 2012 03:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

Really bizarre that they would solve Laura's murder in the middle of the season rather than build up to a finale or something.

Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 4 March 2012 04:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah the murder was solved early (or at all) do to pressure from the network

Chris S, Sunday, 4 March 2012 04:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

due

Chris S, Sunday, 4 March 2012 04:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I remember reading somewhere that Lynch wanted Laura's murder to go unsolved for the span of the series.

Ghost Oral (Deric W. Haircare), Sunday, 4 March 2012 04:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

I love Lynch's metaphor about killing the goose that lays golden eggs.

Yeah it just seems like such a stupid thing to do, to solve it in the middle of a season. I can understand the network pressuring them to do it but I don't see why they didn't put it at the end of the season. At the very least it would give plenty of time to hype it up. It must have been the network's decision to put it that early in the season. Idiots.

Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 4 March 2012 04:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

Also, amateurist, I think you may be on to something wrt the plot fugue playing a big role in the declining viewer interest, but I think Lynch more or less abandoning the show to work on Wild at Heart (and I think some other stuff...Industrial Symphony, maybe?) played the bigger role in its demise. The two causes were probably pretty intertwined, honestly.

Ghost Oral (Deric W. Haircare), Sunday, 4 March 2012 04:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

The early resolution was also maybe an outgrowth of it starting from a short first season - if Laura Palmer had been dragged all the way through to the end of Season 2 they might have lost the viewers anyway and we'd be complaining about "that damn Laura Palmer plot that refused to end, while intriguing threads like the murderess Evelyn went undeveloped" or whatever. I mean, killing the golden goose yeah, but how long can you tease a plotline like that without just driving people crazy?

Doctor Casino, Sunday, 4 March 2012 04:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

They should've kept up with "Invitation to Love".

Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 4 March 2012 04:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

I sort of know what you mean, Dr Casino, but at least if the creators had been allowed to choose that, then we might not have had stuff that felt rushed or shoehorned in. I will say as well, though, that the first season doesn't seem short to me, really. I know that US programmes do go on for a lot longer than UK ones, but I think that's kind of their big failing. Almost all of the stuff I like lasts for about two British series lengths - so about 12 episodes in total?

emil.y, Sunday, 4 March 2012 04:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

I have to say I liked Dick.

― emil.y

Nude Gingrich (Leee), Sunday, 4 March 2012 04:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

Hey! No fair!

emil.y, Sunday, 4 March 2012 05:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

Or, wait, is it just me who read that as "taking posts out of context"?

emil.y, Sunday, 4 March 2012 05:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

I also don't mind the length of season 1 - in fact, if TP had been done as a string of six-episode miniseries it might have actually worked even better. I just think season one PLUS two as the length to get to Laura's murderer - - that'd be, what, five British seasons? People would be screaming.

Doctor Casino, Sunday, 4 March 2012 05:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

I voted James Hurley on the road, but I do have to say Windom Earle was a huge letdown. When we first hear about him Cooper is petrified and the moment feels really powerful and then he turns out to be kind of pathetic and silly.

Matt Armstrong, Sunday, 4 March 2012 05:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I would more or less cosign that; I didn't hate him onscreen and he did seem suitably evil and twisted but he just wasn't quite as terrifying in the flesh as he was as a vague threat coming in from beyond. Always a risk when you set a villain up that much though - "Wait 'til Martin comes!"

Doctor Casino, Sunday, 4 March 2012 05:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

Hrm, I guess I should have listed the continuing war between Catherine Martel and Ben Horne, but I suppose that's sort of covered under the umbrellas of some of the others.

My ranking of these -

ACTUALLY WAS INTO THIS AND IT MADE THE SHOW STILL WORTH IT

Cooper and Truman work to solve the murder of Laura Palmer
Audrey gets mixed up in the business of One-Eyed Jack's and needs rescuing
Donna befriends a shut-in named Harold Smith, with terrible consequences
Donna becomes convinced that there is a connection between her family and Ben Horne
Cooper, with the help of Dennis/Denise, tries to clear his name after a frame-up
Windom and Annie, with Cooper in pursuit, locate and enter the Black Lodge
Josie is re-embroiled in the Martel saga as Andrew Packard and Thomas Eckhardt reappear
Gordon discovers that he can hear Shelly's voice PERFECTLY
Harry tries to come to terms with the fallout of the Josie saga
The Martels and Andrew try to unravel the secret of Eckhardt's puzzle box
Ed and Norma attempt to pursue their long-forestalled love
Cooper and Truman, with Pete's chess finesse, try to outwit Windom Earle
Ben Horne becomes obsessed with the Civil War, and tries to turn over a new leaf

...although I'd add that the Donna father thing suffered from it being really obvious where it was all going, while Donna pouted around being apparently too dense to put together the really, really obvious clues. And Gordon and Shelly is a throwaway, but a genuinely amusing one so I don't mind it being in there at all. Josie I accept only because it's crucial to Harry's plotline, about which I gave a shit.

STARTED OUT OKAY BUT DIDN'T GO ANYWHERE AND/OR GOT OLD FAST

The mayor's fiancee exerts a dumbfounding force on all men, for some reason
Bobby and Shelly's relationship is strained as they take care of a semi-comatose Leo
Windom Earle, using Leo as his pawn, engages in kidnapping and murder in the woods
The upcoming Miss Twin Peaks contest is on everybody's minds this was fine once it got us to the climax obviously, but all of Windom's clue-dropping and disguise-playing really didn't actually go anywhere.

LIKE NAILS ON A CHALKBOARD EVERY SECOND THAT THIS WAS GOING ON

Audrey gets involved in staging a fundraiser for the Pine Weasel, and falls for Billy Zane
Nadine, suffering from amnesia, returns to high school with superhuman strength
James leaves town and becomes mixed up in the torrid affair of Evelyn, Malcolm and Jeffrey
Andy and Dick compete for Lucy's approval as prospective fathers through babysitting, etc.
Cooper meets Norma's ex-nun sister Annie and falls in love

Teenage Nadine was maybe okay for the first, like, two scenes. In a way, I think the Billy Zane and Annie plots are the most damaging - I never liked James in the first place, and Andy and Lucy were comic relief from the get-go, but to hitch two of the most interesting characters to these really...really...really unexciting romantic pairs actually made you like the protagonists less, according to the "what does he see in her?" principle. It made Cooper seem way less cool, and Annie's total blandness worked against the idea that somehow getting drawn in by this woman was throwing him off his game and causing him to make mistakes. This is what's wrecking Coop's concentration? With Audrey you at least go, well, she's a teenager (even if you see her at school, like, twice), teenagers fall for good looking bland people. But it still sucked.

Doctor Casino, Sunday, 4 March 2012 06:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

The *only* storyline I absolutely hated was the fucking tedious James story. All of the others were at least okay, and I must confess that I love the Civil War thing.

totally OTM came here to voice this exact sentiment

Spent those sections half-heartedly punching the couch in frustration

an elk hunt (Ówen P.), Sunday, 4 March 2012 06:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

Dick: “Andy I believe that Little Nicky, incredible as it may seem, may in fact be the devil.”

ho don't kno I'm bout that skrillex (Pillbox), Sunday, 4 March 2012 16:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

Nadine, suffering from amnesia, returns to high school with superhuman strength

Eric H., Sunday, 4 March 2012 17:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

The three I really hated were Nadine back in high school, James' love triangle, and the Civil War stuff. I know many people like the latter--the appeal completely escapes me. I love everything having to do with Windom Earle. I guess I'll register the only Civil War vote.

clemenza, Sunday, 4 March 2012 17:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

Isn't the first season pretty short, like 10 eps or something? And the second is more the standard 22 or whatever? I watched season one for the first time recently since the original air date and actually had some trouble with it, but most disturbing was how many memories of the show I had that were from the second season, and not the first.

Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 4 March 2012 17:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

So, maybe this belongs in more a general-purpose TP thread, but I just watched the pilot for what I think must be the first time (when I watched the show my roommate didn't have that DVD and just gave me a recap). It's actually really striking how different it is from where the show ended up...I feel like a lot of things changed gradually, just in terms of tone and focus, so that by the time it got to this round-robin goofball show of high school Nadine, Civil War Ben, and Andy/Dick/Lucy antics, you didn't exactly notice where it had all changed. But man - the pilot is damned spooky, brilliantly loose-ended (in the sense of there being no really strong effort to set up plausible murder suspects), almost unrelentingly downbeat, and incredibly human. The opening scenes with people reacting to this horrible crime are really, really affecting...you can see why people would have wanted more of this show! (Audrey notwithstanding, who seems totally unsympathetic and annoying in this iteration.)

I wonder if the ongoing project of exposing all these people as having their own dark secrets and skeletons in the closet actually robs the show of its emotional impact in this way, even more so than making half of them into clowns. Of course the "dark secrets" thing is kind of thematically crucial so it's a no-win. But man, that pilot was great. Long, but really nails the eerie emptiness of being out in the woods in the dark.

Doctor Casino, Sunday, 4 March 2012 17:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, season one is only eight episodes - ends with Cooper getting shot by a mystery assailant in his hotel room.

Doctor Casino, Sunday, 4 March 2012 17:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

The pilot is very different in tone--closer to something like River's Edge, but better. Grim and serious. I think of the principal breaking down during his announcement of Laura's death, or (as I remember it, unless I'm thinking of Elephant) the shot of student running past the classroom screaming. I can't remember if the tone changed suddenly, or if it was more of a gradual thing.

clemenza, Sunday, 4 March 2012 17:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, student screaming is totally in it. Everybody just seems totally shaken and shattered. Even things like Truman being really short with Andy about him crying, sort of feels out of character based on later developments - or just, Harry's on edge and trying to keep it together himself.

Doctor Casino, Sunday, 4 March 2012 17:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

otm dr. c

I was introduced to and immediately absorbed by the show when i was thirteen or so, right around the same time I had my first real experience w/ the death of a friend. A kid I was friends with died in a car crash & the degree to which that wrenched MY community from within i guess i found some parallel with in the TP pilot & the subsequent reverberation of grief, dread & uncertainty throughout the first & early second season.

ho don't kno I'm bout that skrillex (Pillbox), Sunday, 4 March 2012 18:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

I remember the Albert Rosenfeld scene, smartass, as he's one of the only characters who isn't a 2-dimensional archetype.

Literal Facepalms (Dr Morbius), Friday, 16 March 2012 18:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

what's it like to be able to hate things you can't remember

the sir edmund hillary of sitting through pauly shore films (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 16 March 2012 18:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

it's like being an asshole, just for yr reference

Literal Facepalms (Dr Morbius), Friday, 16 March 2012 18:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

"2-dimensional archetypes" was not meant as a dis, btw. They can be usefully employed in the proper environment. As they are here, bcz that aspect of TP is part parody.

when ppl talk about such characters like they were created by Dostoevsky, it's tiresome tho.

Literal Facepalms (Dr Morbius), Friday, 16 March 2012 18:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

Oh god the Josie Packard subplot was horrendously awful. I had forgotten it. Almost deserves to win just because it was so incomprehensible and overwritten and drawn out over so many episodes.

the prurient pinterest (Hurting 2), Friday, 16 March 2012 18:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

Josie in a doorknob, incomprehensible?

pandemic, Friday, 16 March 2012 19:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah Josie subplot def a low point of the show, altho anytime it involved Piper Laurie and Ben Horn was lol

the sir edmund hillary of sitting through pauly shore films (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 16 March 2012 19:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

Doctor Casino, Friday, 16 March 2012 19:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

^^^ David Lynch directed a series of commercials for Japanese canned-coffee brand "Georgia." Perhaps a hint as to how Twin Peaks would have turned out if he'd stayed on the ball!

Doctor Casino, Friday, 16 March 2012 19:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

Miguel Ferrer AKA Albert, through learning bits about his career over the years, is one of the coolest mofos of all time. This year I found out he plays drums on Keith Moon's solo album, plus this little tidbit:

Another parallel with the life of Marilyn Monroe, though probably unintentional. Monroe was a friend of Rosemary Clooney, and was invited to her house for a party in 1955. Clooney had recently had a baby, and took Monroe upstairs to see him. He burst into tears when Monroe first cradled him, until he opened his eyes and saw Monroe, and simply stared back at here, wide-eyed. Monroe ended up spending the entire party upstairs with the baby. That newborn was none other than cast member Miguel Ferrer.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098936/trivia

Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 16 March 2012 19:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

wait does that mean George Clooney and Miguel Ferrer are brothers

the sir edmund hillary of sitting through pauly shore films (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 16 March 2012 19:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

the resemblance is uncanny

Number None, Friday, 16 March 2012 20:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

wait does that mean George Clooney and Miguel Ferrer are brothers

― the sir edmund hillary of sitting through pauly shore films (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, March 16, 2012 3:50 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Cousins, apparently

the prurient pinterest (Hurting 2), Friday, 16 March 2012 20:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

hence the different surnames

Number None, Friday, 16 March 2012 20:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

brothers can have different surnames

the sir edmund hillary of sitting through pauly shore films (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 16 March 2012 20:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah, thought everyone knew Rosemary was George's aunt though

Number None, Friday, 16 March 2012 20:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

there is a story that Rosemary hired starving-actor nephew George to be her lawn/shrubbery guy one summer, and he only cut the parts she could see from her window.

Literal Facepalms (Dr Morbius), Friday, 16 March 2012 20:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Saturday, 17 March 2012 05:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

System, Sunday, 25 March 2012 00:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

Oh yeah! IIRC i based the close of this poll on the date Cooper emerges from the Black Lodge, acccording to some fan timeline dealie.

Doctor Casino, Sunday, 25 March 2012 04:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

It is happening again.

clemenza, Sunday, 25 March 2012 05:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

System, Monday, 26 March 2012 00:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

wait you forgot the "norma's mother is secretly a restaurant critic" subplot! do overs.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 26 March 2012 02:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

Oh GOD, yeah, what the hell was the point of that again?

Kind of amazed by the turnout - didn't know so many people on here cared! Thanks for voting, everyone.

(Who voted for Harry drunkenly moping around, though?)

Doctor Casino, Monday, 26 March 2012 03:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

Sometimes I feel shame for not hating James as much as the rest of the world does.

hot and brothered (Eric H.), Monday, 26 March 2012 03:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

Oh GOD, yeah, what the hell was the point of that again?

the point was that there was no point.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 26 March 2012 19:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

I am unashamed of my lack of hate for James. If James were a chick of comparable attractiveness, I bet he would be hated less.

sarahell, Monday, 26 March 2012 19:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

Although the Miss Twin Peaks plot sucked, the actual scene was kind of awesome. An underrated twin peaks moment imo.

i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Monday, 26 March 2012 19:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

BAH I have to stop opening this thread, I get horrifying flashbacks from this show.

i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Monday, 26 March 2012 19:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

i thought the Miss Twin Peaks plot was hilarious

sarahell, Monday, 26 March 2012 19:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

even more than what happened to coop and annie, i ALWAYS wondered if audrey horne & pete martell died in the bank explosion

humba (NZA), Monday, 26 March 2012 19:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

humba (NZA), Monday, 26 March 2012 19:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

Thing is, I never hated hated James until the infamous out-of-town plotline. I was getting bored with him and Donna and Maddy, but he himself was fine and had been in some good scenes.

Also agree with this Although the Miss Twin Peaks plot sucked, the actual scene was kind of awesome. An underrated twin peaks moment imo. It definitely delivers the goods, but mannnnn all that stuff with Windom creeping on the girls, so much potential there but it never really gelled.

Mainly it just drove me up a wall that Cooper & Truman never seemed to be really seriously investigating any of that! Like, why not have keep the girls under watch or have Hawk tail them, or something? There was this weird sense late in the show that the different plotlines actually existed in parallel universes - people have mentioned how Norma seems totally oblivious to her sister being kidnapped, and I think that sort of pervades the rest of this thing. It's weird, for example, that nobody takes the slightest notice of Nadine's impossible superhuman strength. I kind of like the idea upthread that it could be explained away as a White Lodge thing, and a tighter master plot chart for the season could have had it at least getting name-dropped somewhere else. You know - - Cooper snaps his fingers, goes "Harry, you're a genius! Nadine's strange transformation, Major Briggs's experience - it all adds up."

Doctor Casino, Monday, 26 March 2012 20:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

also, that gif is amazing, wd subscribe to an all-Twin Peaks animated gif tumblr

Doctor Casino, Monday, 26 March 2012 20:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

there's this part when harold realizes they've taken laura's secret diary and he tosses his body against his orchids and shouts "NO!" that would make THE funniest gif

humba (NZA), Monday, 26 March 2012 20:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

^^^

would also lol at face-scrape with garden tool shot

the sir edmund hillary of sitting through pauly shore films (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 26 March 2012 20:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

http://twinpeaksgifs.tumblr.com/

― i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Monday, March 26, 2012 4:09 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

Doctor Casino, Monday, 26 March 2012 20:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

deserves to become general-purpose posting meme

Doctor Casino, Monday, 26 March 2012 20:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

yes

humba (NZA), Monday, 26 March 2012 20:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

I remember I thought that was kind of a lame use of the dream giant in the show.

i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Monday, 26 March 2012 20:51 (2 years ago) Permalink


awesome

Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 26 March 2012 20:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

humba (NZA), Monday, 26 March 2012 23:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

even more than what happened to coop and annie, i ALWAYS wondered if audrey horne & pete martell died in the bank explosion

― humba (NZA), Monday, March 26, 2012 2:54 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

of course they did

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 26 March 2012 23:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

There was a fish in the detonator!

Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 00:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

p.s. no wayyyy, they totally would have survived!

Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 00:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

2 years pass...

I'm watching this show for the first time, on netflix instant viewing, and am now slogging through the dregs of the second season. Up until now I think I would have gone with Nadine as worst plot line. The James thing is awful but kind of irrelevant and sidelined, like it's happening on a different show. Nadine is something that makes no sense and is in the midst of everything. And the "comedy" of the scene where she was introduced to the wrestling team was pretty much excruciating, some of James' scenes seem almost funny in comparison.
But, I also really hate Josie as Catherine's maid and everything to do with her this season. I know a lot of people hate this character and performance anyway but I think they were sort of well suited in the earlier episodes, here it is horrible all around. Like the Nadine situation, it seems to compromise/contaminate other characters. More self contained plot lines, like the love triangle and the civil war, don't seem as bad in that they don't compromise previously established characters as much.
The Windom Earle thing would, so far, be better if it didn't involve Leo Johnson.

MrDasher, Wednesday, 9 April 2014 04:16 (4 months ago) Permalink

just want to highlight this post in case anyone that's interested in the odd turns that the 2nd season takes missed it upthread:

Also, amateurist, I think you may be on to something wrt the plot fugue playing a big role in the declining viewer interest, but I think Lynch more or less abandoning the show to work on Wild at Heart (and I think some other stuff...Industrial Symphony, maybe?) played the bigger role in its demise. The two causes were probably pretty intertwined, honestly.

from reading about this in the books Lynch on Lynch and the biography Beautiful Dark, this seems to be accurate.

Karl Malone, Wednesday, 9 April 2014 04:27 (4 months ago) Permalink

one pleasant paragraph in Beautiful Dark suggests that when David Lynch (as the FBI boss) tells Cooper to ditch the open collared plaid shirts and get back to the crisp white t-shirt and black suit combo, that's a not-so-subtle comment on the loss of direction of the show under the various directors and writers that took charge while he was off doing Wild at Heart

Karl Malone, Wednesday, 9 April 2014 04:36 (4 months ago) Permalink

It certainly feels like it was under the control of people who didn't understand what made the show and its characters work.
Josie and Nadine were both pretty limited as characters, for different reasons,but I think they worked quite well as one note characters with little screen time. In the second season they not only become grating and annoying with the larger roles but are taken in completely different directions to which they are totally unsuited.
Even with characters like Cooper and Harry, there are moments that ring false, like poor replications.

MrDasher, Wednesday, 9 April 2014 05:06 (4 months ago) Permalink


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