craftsmanship, consumerism, virtue, privilege, and quality

exposto

i can't say that really convinces me of anything. would have to know more about the article to really respond. from what i can tell, the people who are most deeply involved in sustainable and ethical livestock farming tend to be pretty well-informed about environmental impact. and like any subject, there will always be disagreement regarding what is, in fact, better and worse.

locavorism is a relatively recent movement driven, for the most part, by genuine ethical and environmental concern. plus lol yuppie narcissism if you wish. while it may not always get everything right, it seems more likely to respond to valid lessons about what it gets wrong than commercial agriculture.

ie how is it any better to buy vegetables grown in San diego rather than the central valley if the water comes from colorado or lake shasta?

that's a fair point, but it's obvious that it's "better" in some ways to grow vegetables in your backyard, provided you do it responsibly, than it is to have them shipped in from chile or wherever. between the two extremes, you arrive at a pretty solid in-principle defense of locavorism, imo.

yes well what has ever convinced contenderizer of anything, certainly not evidence and reasoning

yeah vahid I made more or less the same argument upthread. well, I think it was upthread. or somewhere. anyway the argument happened.

also if only not knowing things really kept you from responding, would be a miracle imo

plus locavorism tends to go hand-in-hand with serious organic farming, commitment to sustainability, and support for small local producers, all of which i'm in favor of, so long as they successfully walk their talk.

road to hell, good intentions, etc

more talk than walk imo

chile is a pretty good strawman, but most of my vegetables come from the central valley which is a lot closer than where my agua comes from

but yeah basically people who are really into 'efficiency' w/r/t lightbulbs sometimes care less about effiency when it comes to production or transportation chains

*ears burning*

yes well what has ever convinced contenderizer of anything, certainly not evidence and reasoning

lol, provide some, and we'll see.

like i'm seriously curious about the NYT editorial you mention, but absent the article and the evidence in support of it, you're right, i'm not convinced.

fwiw, i was briefly convinced, by an study that iatee posted in the gentrification thread, that gentrification might not be such a bad thing after all. i was then promptly unconvinced by some good, evidence-evidence-and-reasoning based argument provided by others itt. anything is possible...

so if you grow veggies in your yard where does the fertilizer come from?

yes that's right, shipped from chile

chile is a pretty good strawman

chile is not a "strawman". it is a country. lots of food comes from there. shipping it elsewhere uses a lot of resources.

so if you grow veggies in your yard where does the fertilizer come from?

compost dude

Just shit in your garden.

Organic, natural.

artisanal compost from local vegetables no doubt

and fertilizer does not necessarily come from chile. iirc, most of it comes from the composter.

i'm not sure what your point is here. yes, things come from all over. no, no one is perfect. but that doesn't mean that it's foolish to pay attention to where your food comes from, or that you can't accomplish some modest good by eating locally produced food where possible.

it is really easy to make your own compost...? wtf

Do ppl still do worm composting?

every household generates organic waste, it isn't that hard to collect it.

more hipster knife talk please! this is where i come for my hipster hatchet talk!

sorry. but wasn't there just some huge thread about the evils of local produce?

was it this one? i think it was another one.

I think it was

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Th1FOsmBlYE/TwtY5IvXD4I/AAAAAAAADWQ/64_DaA9ydtU/s400/842.fd.YNTKAwhaleknives.jpg

i keep getting the quiddity thread and this thread and now the gentrification thread confused! i don't know where i am anymore.

my point is that your green consumerism backpatting indicates shallow and facile thinking

if i seem het up its cause i get annoyed when people tell me things are "obvious" and then spout a bunch of crap

quiddity thread and this thread kinda my fave ile threads though. i'm no hater. they speak to me.

we're doing the farmshare thing this year. we will be making a lot of soup. well, we're splitting a share with someone else.

my point is that your green consumerism backpatting indicates shallow and facile thinking

perhaps, but you're not offering any kind of substantive rebuttal. you're just snarking douchily at me (see above).

i honestly don't see any sin in my use of the world "obviously" a few posts back. if that sort of thing really gets your tits up, i recommend 3 beers.

my point is that your green consumerism backpatting indicates shallow and facile thinking

implication being that green consumerism is NOT the issue, it's the attitude you detect behind people spouting off about it. these are separate issues.

no, actually the issue is that 'green consumerism' is an oxymoron

I'm just quoting him, it's not a term I support

didn't you make a thread about this where I pwnd you some more

I remember that vaguely

don't think anybody's gonna argue that consuming less >>>>>>>> consuming "green"

lol

what would be substantive here?

my experiences on my former brother in laws local organic farm? the work i did w the chino family farm? my two years experience in the artisanal food industry? the summer i spent w my grandfather trekking around the central valley as he studied water table issues w pomegranate farms? my geochemistry internship at scripps? the ES classes I taught?

do tell.

no, actually the issue is that 'green consumerism' is an oxymoron

it needn't be phrased that way. we might just as well say "environmentally conscious consumption". one can obviously use one's power as a consumer to encourage environmentally responsible practices.

lol

I'd rank approaches to living responsibly in the modern world as follows
1) consume as little as possible
2) consume as responsibly as possible
3) encourage others to do likewise/live by example
4) argue on the internet about it

do tell.

no, you tell. if there's something i've said that you think is wrong, show me the error of my ways. i'm not claiming that locavorism is an absolute good, or that all supposedly "green" practices are better than anything else.

I'm gonna have those three beers now, you're not going to stop talking out yr ass until you get yr head out of it and i can't give you lived experience or book learning on a message board

my experiences on my former brother in laws local organic farm

lol as opposed to your brother-in-law's non-local organic farm that you commute to via jetpack?

defensive much?

anyway gotta go eat dinner at the local organic mexican restaurant seeya

lol

lol wut? are you saying that consumption patterns affect nothing?

you're not going to stop talking out yr ass until you get yr head out of it and i can't give you lived experience or book learning on a message board

again with the douchey, egocentric blather. any point one might wish to make can be made on a message board just as easily as it might be made elsewhere. i'm not asking for scientific proof. just something other than snide bullshit (a valuable fertilizer).

the chino family! i love them! great acrobatic team.

holy shit you guys type fast. r.i.p. beloved hipster hatchet thread...